In the Basement
by Jen Hatmaker on July 27th, 2012
I lived in Kansas from 8th-12th grade. In that time, I became well acquainted with Mr. Tornado and all his little friends: Siren, Tornado Watch, Basement, and False Alarm.
In April of my junior year, our house was hit by a tornado. The end of our street was flattened; we lost our fence and roof and trees. And evidently I lost my sense of security (21 years later, and I still have a tornado nightmare about once a month).
The most visceral memory of that day was crouching in the basement with my family and friend, Andrea, as we heard the tornado approaching. Everything started shaking, and the sound grew until it was deafening. I remember looking at my sister, both our mouths open, screaming, and we couldn’t hear each other. We were inside a train engine.
I’ll never forget hunkering down in the basement while the storm raged overhead.
This is precisely how I feel about the Chick-Fil-A debacle and all the other accouterments of the culture wars. I am so over it. I’m so over the fear mongering and hate propaganda. I’m over the political posturing and power plays. I’m over the finger pointing and name-calling. The storms are raging overhead, and let me tell you something:
I’m going to the basement.
This is obnoxious. So a business leader is no longer entitled to an opinion, even one that roughly half of America shares? Is that where we’re at? Now the mayors of Boston and Chicago and San Francisco are suggesting Chick-Fil-A be denied permits in their cities, and just like that, a hot-blooded difference in personal opinion – not lewd remarks, not discriminatory actions, not company policy – has turned into punitive legislation.
Mayor Bloomburg, also a supporter of gay rights, condemned the statements, saying “cities should not ask about political beliefs before issuing a permit.” Of course they shouldn’t. Where would it end? The CEO of the Phoenix Suns is gay; shall we all boycott their basketball games or deny their right to play in the public sphere? Is it time to quiz small-business owners on their positions on gun control, abortion, and immigration reform, and decide if their companies are “welcome in our cities”?
Because this will swing every way, you know. Perhaps Chick-Fil-A is banned in Boston, but we will also stand by if a Muslim business owner is banned from operating in Huntsville, Alabama? Mark Zuckerberg is an atheist; should Christians all delete their Facebook accounts? This affront to democracy is infinitely more dangerous than a CEO with an opinion, which, if you’ve ever paid attention, we are supposed to have the freedom to hold and express in this country without threat of commercial retribution.
Truett Cathy is a citizen; he has a right to an opinion. He gets to have that. He isn’t peddling theology…his currency is the Spicy Chicken Sandwich. There are certainly tens of thousands of gay folks who work for and patron CFA. No one has ever been asked to procure proof of their heterosexuality before dipping into their Polynesian sauce.
If you don’t like his personal policy, don’t eat there. Problem solved.
And lest you unfairly brand me as a mouthpiece for the right, I hate the culture wars on both sides of the party line. Christians, do you really think posting pithy statements on Facebook about “standing firm in our values” and “resisting the liberal media” is helping? The lines we draw in the sand do absolutely nothing except assure everyone else: YOU’RE OUT. When we turn to politics and power to legislate our brand of morality, we take the opposite approach of Jesus whose power was activated in the margins with the outcasts...humbly...peripherally.
I’m sick of the Jesus forwards and judgment. Sick of majoring on gay marriage. Enough, everyone. With every hate Tweet and finger jab and Bible bludgeon, you are telling my gay friends they are indeed unwelcome, unloved, unvalued, and uninvited. If your agenda is to battle homosexuality, how’s that going? How many gay folks read your Prop 8 yard sign, knocked on your door, and said, “Thank you for voicing your opinion to the neighbors in this manner. Would you kindly invite me in and teach me how to be straight? And do you have a Bible study I can join?”
When we resort to the same tactics being leveled at Truett Cathy, we sink to the least common denominator and – this is important – we make everything worse. How are these culture wars working out for us? Well, the church is losing around 50K folks a week, and the next generation downright refuses to come. The gay community is ostracized entirely (oh, they’ve gotten the message alright), and Christianity has turned into white noise.
Digging our heels in even harder is the problem, not the answer.
Love is, if you believe anything Jesus ever said or did.
Everyone is screaming and swearing at each other, pointing fingers and posting clichés on Pinterest. The storm is out of control. What happened to civil discourse? What happened to basic human respect? What happened to good men and women pulling up a seat at the table together and navigating differences with dignity and regard? What happened to listening? What happened to humility?
I'm done. I’m going to the basement, and I invite you to join me. Here is what we hate down in the basement:
We hate injustice.
We hate our own sin and pride and arrogance, and we grieve at how it has wounded, sliced, slashed, and humiliated.
We hate that 25,000 people will die today of hunger and we’re arguing gay marriage again.
We hate how the Gospel has been turned into a bludgeoning tool.
We hate pointless arguments that widen the gap and devalue real human people.
We hate abuse and violence and crowded orphanages and trafficked sixth-graders.
And it’s not all hate, lest you imagine the Basement Dwellers are a sorry lot indeed. We love some things down in the basement, too:
We love people. Because Jesus does. All of them.
We love grace, because it rescued all of us sinners.
We love healing and redemption, and we get to be a part of that every day, if we are brave enough to say yes.
We love that Jesus uses broken people, because that is our zip code and He chooses us anyway. Mercy is our only sane option.
We love the Body of Christ, when she isn’t being a bully or a tyrant or trying to take over the Oval Office and the Red Carpet. I swear, she can be beautiful.
We love Jesus, who was always in hot water with the religious folks for eating with sinners and offering scandalous grace not just to the leper but to the tax collector.
We love love, and we believe in its power.
If you are weary of the storm, come on downstairs. We’re going to get on with the business of loving people and battling real injustices and caring for the poor and loving Jesus. We’re going to go ahead and offer mercy to one another, even if it is viewed as “soft” or “cowardly” or “dangerous.” (But once I conquer all my own demons definitively, I’ll be happy to turn a critical eye on everyone else’s. Good?) We’re going to trust that Jesus is actually at work in this world like He said, and when he promised that “His kindness leads us to repentance,” we’re just going to believe Him.
Sure, the storm will rage on up there. But you can find refuge just down the stairs. We have a whole thing going on underground. Gay friends and family, you are welcome down here. Marginalized women, come on down. Isolated and confused by organized religion, afraid your questions aren’t welcomed? Join us. Activists and bleeding hearts, you are our heartbeat. Plain, old, ordinary sinners saved by grace, you belong here. Misfits, ragamuffins, and rebels, bring the party. Reformed legalists, you are my people. Pastors contending for God’s glory and people, help lead us. Dissenters, dreamers, visionaries, we need you.
Come on down to the basement. I ordered a Chick-Fil-A nugget platter.
You want to join me in the basement? You are loved down here. Kindly do not turn my comment feed into a culture war. I'm not here to argue issues, only the love of Jesus which has netted infinitely more converts than judgment. Tell me why you're retreating from the storm.
In April of my junior year, our house was hit by a tornado. The end of our street was flattened; we lost our fence and roof and trees. And evidently I lost my sense of security (21 years later, and I still have a tornado nightmare about once a month).
The most visceral memory of that day was crouching in the basement with my family and friend, Andrea, as we heard the tornado approaching. Everything started shaking, and the sound grew until it was deafening. I remember looking at my sister, both our mouths open, screaming, and we couldn’t hear each other. We were inside a train engine.
I’ll never forget hunkering down in the basement while the storm raged overhead.
This is precisely how I feel about the Chick-Fil-A debacle and all the other accouterments of the culture wars. I am so over it. I’m so over the fear mongering and hate propaganda. I’m over the political posturing and power plays. I’m over the finger pointing and name-calling. The storms are raging overhead, and let me tell you something:
I’m going to the basement.
This is obnoxious. So a business leader is no longer entitled to an opinion, even one that roughly half of America shares? Is that where we’re at? Now the mayors of Boston and Chicago and San Francisco are suggesting Chick-Fil-A be denied permits in their cities, and just like that, a hot-blooded difference in personal opinion – not lewd remarks, not discriminatory actions, not company policy – has turned into punitive legislation.
Mayor Bloomburg, also a supporter of gay rights, condemned the statements, saying “cities should not ask about political beliefs before issuing a permit.” Of course they shouldn’t. Where would it end? The CEO of the Phoenix Suns is gay; shall we all boycott their basketball games or deny their right to play in the public sphere? Is it time to quiz small-business owners on their positions on gun control, abortion, and immigration reform, and decide if their companies are “welcome in our cities”?
Because this will swing every way, you know. Perhaps Chick-Fil-A is banned in Boston, but we will also stand by if a Muslim business owner is banned from operating in Huntsville, Alabama? Mark Zuckerberg is an atheist; should Christians all delete their Facebook accounts? This affront to democracy is infinitely more dangerous than a CEO with an opinion, which, if you’ve ever paid attention, we are supposed to have the freedom to hold and express in this country without threat of commercial retribution.
Truett Cathy is a citizen; he has a right to an opinion. He gets to have that. He isn’t peddling theology…his currency is the Spicy Chicken Sandwich. There are certainly tens of thousands of gay folks who work for and patron CFA. No one has ever been asked to procure proof of their heterosexuality before dipping into their Polynesian sauce.
If you don’t like his personal policy, don’t eat there. Problem solved.
And lest you unfairly brand me as a mouthpiece for the right, I hate the culture wars on both sides of the party line. Christians, do you really think posting pithy statements on Facebook about “standing firm in our values” and “resisting the liberal media” is helping? The lines we draw in the sand do absolutely nothing except assure everyone else: YOU’RE OUT. When we turn to politics and power to legislate our brand of morality, we take the opposite approach of Jesus whose power was activated in the margins with the outcasts...humbly...peripherally.
I’m sick of the Jesus forwards and judgment. Sick of majoring on gay marriage. Enough, everyone. With every hate Tweet and finger jab and Bible bludgeon, you are telling my gay friends they are indeed unwelcome, unloved, unvalued, and uninvited. If your agenda is to battle homosexuality, how’s that going? How many gay folks read your Prop 8 yard sign, knocked on your door, and said, “Thank you for voicing your opinion to the neighbors in this manner. Would you kindly invite me in and teach me how to be straight? And do you have a Bible study I can join?”
When we resort to the same tactics being leveled at Truett Cathy, we sink to the least common denominator and – this is important – we make everything worse. How are these culture wars working out for us? Well, the church is losing around 50K folks a week, and the next generation downright refuses to come. The gay community is ostracized entirely (oh, they’ve gotten the message alright), and Christianity has turned into white noise.
Digging our heels in even harder is the problem, not the answer.
Love is, if you believe anything Jesus ever said or did.
Everyone is screaming and swearing at each other, pointing fingers and posting clichés on Pinterest. The storm is out of control. What happened to civil discourse? What happened to basic human respect? What happened to good men and women pulling up a seat at the table together and navigating differences with dignity and regard? What happened to listening? What happened to humility?
I'm done. I’m going to the basement, and I invite you to join me. Here is what we hate down in the basement:
We hate injustice.
We hate our own sin and pride and arrogance, and we grieve at how it has wounded, sliced, slashed, and humiliated.
We hate that 25,000 people will die today of hunger and we’re arguing gay marriage again.
We hate how the Gospel has been turned into a bludgeoning tool.
We hate pointless arguments that widen the gap and devalue real human people.
We hate abuse and violence and crowded orphanages and trafficked sixth-graders.
And it’s not all hate, lest you imagine the Basement Dwellers are a sorry lot indeed. We love some things down in the basement, too:
We love people. Because Jesus does. All of them.
We love grace, because it rescued all of us sinners.
We love healing and redemption, and we get to be a part of that every day, if we are brave enough to say yes.
We love that Jesus uses broken people, because that is our zip code and He chooses us anyway. Mercy is our only sane option.
We love the Body of Christ, when she isn’t being a bully or a tyrant or trying to take over the Oval Office and the Red Carpet. I swear, she can be beautiful.
We love Jesus, who was always in hot water with the religious folks for eating with sinners and offering scandalous grace not just to the leper but to the tax collector.
We love love, and we believe in its power.
If you are weary of the storm, come on downstairs. We’re going to get on with the business of loving people and battling real injustices and caring for the poor and loving Jesus. We’re going to go ahead and offer mercy to one another, even if it is viewed as “soft” or “cowardly” or “dangerous.” (But once I conquer all my own demons definitively, I’ll be happy to turn a critical eye on everyone else’s. Good?) We’re going to trust that Jesus is actually at work in this world like He said, and when he promised that “His kindness leads us to repentance,” we’re just going to believe Him.
Sure, the storm will rage on up there. But you can find refuge just down the stairs. We have a whole thing going on underground. Gay friends and family, you are welcome down here. Marginalized women, come on down. Isolated and confused by organized religion, afraid your questions aren’t welcomed? Join us. Activists and bleeding hearts, you are our heartbeat. Plain, old, ordinary sinners saved by grace, you belong here. Misfits, ragamuffins, and rebels, bring the party. Reformed legalists, you are my people. Pastors contending for God’s glory and people, help lead us. Dissenters, dreamers, visionaries, we need you.
Come on down to the basement. I ordered a Chick-Fil-A nugget platter.
You want to join me in the basement? You are loved down here. Kindly do not turn my comment feed into a culture war. I'm not here to argue issues, only the love of Jesus which has netted infinitely more converts than judgment. Tell me why you're retreating from the storm.
Posted in not categorized Tagged with no tags
855 Comments
Kodi - July 27th, 2012 at 3:02 PM
THIS is the post I have in my heart. Thank you for so bravely sharing it. Life isn't easy in the basement, but it's good.
↳
mnd - July 27th, 2012 at 10:00 PM
↳
Eva - August 1st, 2012 at 1:09 PM
AMEN! And can you pass me some Roasted Honey BBQ sauce for those nuggets. Thanks for sharing!
↳
Patricia - August 6th, 2012 at 7:39 AM
I agree
↳
Joey - July 27th, 2012 at 10:04 PM
Just think what a great nation we would have if we all looked and concentrated on our own sin instead of the sin of others.
↳
Nicki - July 27th, 2012 at 11:25 PM
Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house right :) If only we would worry about ourselves first. This post is beautiful, and as a proud lesbian and lover of jesus and also a lover of Chick-fill-a I support this post.
Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone's got one. Do I agree with his, nope, will I think twice next time I'm craving a sweet tea where to get it from, yup. But that's my right, just as its his right to not agree with my lifestyle. My lost revenue will speak for me, and when I lay my head down at night will I pray for him. Absolutely, because Jesus told us to love each other, he didn't say judge each other.
We should focus on ourselves, as you stated, and tend our own garden, not others.
Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone's got one. Do I agree with his, nope, will I think twice next time I'm craving a sweet tea where to get it from, yup. But that's my right, just as its his right to not agree with my lifestyle. My lost revenue will speak for me, and when I lay my head down at night will I pray for him. Absolutely, because Jesus told us to love each other, he didn't say judge each other.
We should focus on ourselves, as you stated, and tend our own garden, not others.
↳
Wayne - July 28th, 2012 at 2:55 AM
Well stated Miss Nicki, thank you!
↳
Kris - July 28th, 2012 at 5:51 AM
Amen Nicki and this whole post speaks my thoughts EXCEPT let us not forget the ceo of chick fil a did more than have an opinion, he pulled happy meal toys made by a gay rights supporter thereby using his personal beliefs to make a business decision and impact someone elses business and THEN he lied about it...that's going too far to me and he needs to feel that in the only place he cares about...his deep pockets!
↳
L.isa - July 28th, 2012 at 8:01 AM
Actually, I think it was the Jim Henson CEO who pulled the toys from their meals, and since the CEO of Chik-Fil-A didn't want it known that he was losing business connections due to his anti-gay views, he lied about that and said that the toys were being recalled because they posed a possible danger.
↳
KB - July 28th, 2012 at 4:10 PM
To clarify bc my husband and I own one in Arkansas,the decision to pull the toys was genuinely bc of complaints to customer care about children getting their fingers stuck. My daughter included! The department that made that decision was unaware at the time of the the issue that the Jim Henson Company had with CFA's beliefs. It's an unfortunate coincidence and I think people will always assume or believe the worst. Also, we are independent business owners in business with Chick-fil-A. When Dan spoke, he gave his personal opinion, not the opinion of Chick-fil-A and he has even told us that many times. He also gives money from their foundation WinShape...the money did not come from Chick-fil-A. Of course the money from their profits at Chick-fil-A go into WinShape but as as whole they don't give from "Chick-fil-A." They are a private family business, not a public business. Lastly, I am sure there are plenty of owner/operators of Chick-fil-A franchises who don't share his belief. They do not discriminate when they hire therefore they don't ask us our personal beliefs on issues or politics. They do not require us to be married...there are several single operators. Just a little bit of misinformation that is out there.
↳
LC - July 29th, 2012 at 8:54 AM
Thank you! My daughter got her finger stuck in one of those toys and it really hurt her- it took me a while to get her to calm down. I called CFA and complained about it. I don't know why they went back to putting toys in their kids meals- we were disappointed when we didn't get a book that time!
AND I love this post. I will eat at Chick-fil-A. The only reason people are upset is because the media told them to be upset. I didn't say "liberal" media- the so-called "conservative" media attempts brain-washing too. People need to learn how to filter the BS and think for themselves- AND think past their knee-jerk reactions.
AND I love this post. I will eat at Chick-fil-A. The only reason people are upset is because the media told them to be upset. I didn't say "liberal" media- the so-called "conservative" media attempts brain-washing too. People need to learn how to filter the BS and think for themselves- AND think past their knee-jerk reactions.
↳
Lacey - August 1st, 2012 at 1:10 PM
So nice to see a comment from someone who actually KNOWS the truth. As with any piece of gossip, it gets turned, twisted, manipulated into a juicier story with each set of lips it passes from. Media also insinuates inflamming comments to stir the pot further.
↳
buffyk - August 1st, 2012 at 8:55 PM
You are correct, it was Jim Henson Co. that pulled the toys.
↳
Julie - August 2nd, 2012 at 9:55 AM
Yes it was the Henson CEO, it was not the CEO of chick-fi-A, who sadly passed away the other day. So, no one at Chick-fil-A lied about anything.
↳
Name - July 28th, 2012 at 8:04 AM
Actually, The Hensen Corp. pulled their toys...not Chick-Fil-A.
↳
Sarah - July 28th, 2012 at 9:46 AM
Actually, Chick-fil-A posted on FB that they pulled the toys for safety concerns. It had nothing to do with the current uproar. In turn, The Henson Corp. pulled their partnership with CFA. No reason was given why.
↳
Juanita - July 28th, 2012 at 10:57 AM
Actually, what does it really matter to any of us on a personal level who pulled what when and why?
↳
Sheila - August 2nd, 2012 at 4:37 PM
Enough already !!! Who really cares about the Toys ? Not I !!!!
↳
Mikaela - August 1st, 2012 at 9:08 PM
The reason the Hensen Company pulled their toys was made very clear: "The Jim Henson Company has celebrated and embraced diversity and inclusiveness for over fifty years and we have notified Chick-Fil-A that we do not wish to partner with them on any future endeavors. Lisa Henson, our CEO is personally a strong supporter of gay marriage and has directed us to donate the payment we received from Chick-Fil-A to GLAAD."
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/jim-henson-company-pulls-muppets-toys-from-chick-fil-a-kids-meals-2012-7#ixzz22LnK8A8p
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/jim-henson-company-pulls-muppets-toys-from-chick-fil-a-kids-meals-2012-7#ixzz22LnK8A8p
↳
michael - July 28th, 2012 at 9:59 AM
But Kris, it's his company....he is making the same kind of decision t you are by choosing to not eat at CFA - it's the same thing. And if it's about his profits and not about his beliefs don't you think he would be open 52 more days a year? You have any idea how much in profits CFA DOESN'T make because of that?
↳
Lari - July 28th, 2012 at 11:56 AM
yes! If it were about profits..he would be open 7 days a week.....
↳
MBK - July 29th, 2012 at 12:30 PM
actually CFA makes more profits in 6 days then most fast food in 7. That is why they are allowed special contracts in Malls that allow them to close on Sunday. Otherwise the Malls would bring in a more profitable business... They actually get a commision on their vendors profit.
↳
joe - July 29th, 2012 at 2:57 PM
Oh really? What malls do you own and operate? Most of the ones I deal with regularly just get paid rent from their shops and restaurants, not a percentage of profits. It’s called a lease. You can learn about it on wikipedia.
↳
Tom - July 29th, 2012 at 3:21 PM
And many mall leases include a percentage of sales over a certain dollar amount. Mine did!
↳
alex - July 31st, 2012 at 9:58 AM
Joe come on. Your antagonistic response is the very thing this excellent blog post so masterfully calls out. Quit with the snarky attitude and approach this tiny misunderstanding with some class and some respect
↳
Josh - August 1st, 2012 at 10:48 PM
Actually I manage a mall and most retailers do pay % rent on top of their minimum rent and NNN. A lot national restaurants get % rent removed from the deal because they have the traffic draw. Chik most of the time does not pay % rent for this very reason but is very much possible for them to pay this. They bring thousands of people thru the door but they might pay a penalty for being closed on Sundays.
↳
Lori - July 31st, 2012 at 6:37 PM
From first hand experience: many, if not all, of those mall CFAs pay a penalty for being closed on Sunday.
↳
Name - July 29th, 2012 at 5:21 PM
They pulled their own toys.
↳
Diana - August 1st, 2012 at 8:03 PM
It was the Henson Co. that pulled the toys from C-F-A not he other way around!
↳
Brian - July 28th, 2012 at 9:13 AM
With as much respect as possible...Jesus never said not to judge, that is a widely misquoted verse of scripture, the following verses provide the proper context...Jesus told us not to judge by a standard that we are not willing to be judged by....we are often exhorted to call sin what it is, but to do so in our own lives also, without hypocrisy
↳
Steph - July 28th, 2012 at 12:43 PM
Couldnt agree more Brian!
↳
Jessica - July 28th, 2012 at 1:18 PM
Thank you for posting this. "Only God can judge me" is so frequently used as an excuse to do whatever you want and disregard what anyone says about it. Too often it is forgotten that yes, God really will judge us all, so it's best to examine what we are doing in light of Scripture.
↳
lauren - July 31st, 2012 at 8:17 AM
awesome awesome responses, brian
↳
Brian S - July 28th, 2012 at 3:32 PM
A different Brian here, agreeing with Brian above. I do think this is one of the most misunderstood teachings, about not judging. I think it applies to judging another's soul, their heart, their culpability, their being. None of that can we begin to judge, for we do not have the knowledge of the person that God has. God has the ability to read our hearts and judge them, we do not. It does not apply to judging an act in and of itself. To say that stealing or murder is wrong is a statement of judgement, right? To say that pedophiles are wrong is a judgement, but no one ever tells us not to judge pedophiles. Why don't people apply the "judge not" admonishment to those sins? What we don't know, is whether we would have done anything different if we'd walked a mile in someone else's shoes. So we cannot judge anyone's inherent goodness or badness. But we can say that theft is wrong. We can say that feeling hatred toward someone is wrong. Envy is wrong. Gluttony is wrong. Greed is wrong. Lack of compassion for the poor is wrong. And I can say that homosexual sex acts are wrong. What I don't know is whether I'm so blind to my own sins, that God is actually more pleased with my neighbor (hypothetical) who is in a homosexual marriage but has a heart open to God and overflowing with love and service toward their neighbor. So I can never say that I am "better" than someone in an active homosexual lifestyle. All I can say is the factual statement from Scripture and from natural law, that homosexual acts are sinful and damaging to those that practice them.
↳
Allieal - July 28th, 2012 at 6:45 PM
So well said "2nd Brian";)! Wish all knew that!
↳
M.A.H. - July 29th, 2012 at 3:36 AM
Brilliant. I can't STAND it when the "don't judge" card gets played in defense of a preferred personal sin. Whether this misunderstanding is the result of willful or innocent ignorance, it is still a misapplication of Scripture. It is not "judging" in then negative sense when a person simply restates a thing that is already stated in Scripture. It may hurt feelings and egos, but homosexuality is never approved of by Scripture; it is always condemned. Therefore, I cannot in good conscience stamp my seal of approval on such behavior, no matter how awesome or kind or compassionate the person is in every other aspect of their life. Doesn't mean I don't want to know you or be around you or share in your life, it simply means I think you are making a poor decision when it comes to one particular aspect of your life.
↳
Deb - August 1st, 2012 at 9:10 AM
Thank you (second) brian for the wonderful comment. Love the sinner, hate the sin. Jen Hatmaker had a great commentary but she left out your last sentence. We all have choices and I chose to go by God Word. Again, Thank you.
↳
Susannah - August 1st, 2012 at 11:00 AM
Well said!
↳
Lile - July 29th, 2012 at 5:25 PM
Thanks, Brian! Judgment like Jesus judged is very misunderstood!
↳
Martha - July 29th, 2012 at 7:40 PM
And I might add....Christians are also directed to judge Christians/The Church most differently than they do the world.
↳
Fay - July 29th, 2012 at 8:47 PM
Thank you for writing that!!
↳
Heather - August 2nd, 2012 at 9:39 PM
Actually, the NT tells us to "call out" other BELIEVERS on their sins. If your bro in Christ is sinning, you have every right (and "responsibility," some believe) to call them on it. But non believers? That's not your job. You're commanded to love them and show them grace.
↳
R. Gabriel - August 4th, 2012 at 4:33 PM
In these posts I see a lot of diverse opinions, which is great--from those who try to follow Christ
↳
Mary - August 13th, 2012 at 10:51 AM
Yes, Heather.. you are correct. My question is this... There are many people who are living in a homosexual relationship and call themselves Christians. Are we to ignore this or follow Scripture? If they are claiming to be our brothers and sisters in Christ and claim to be believers... then what to do? If I claimed to be a Christian and was living with my boyfriend, the response would be obvious, but because someone is gay and now in a specially protected class of people, we may hurt their feelings. Sin is sin. I have lots of it. But then I look at the other flip side. How many obese Christians are out there? Gluttony.. a sin....Do we approach our fat brothers and sisters in Christ and admonish them to lose the weight and stop eating so much? BTW.. I have lost over 110 lbs and still fat and food is my daily struggle. I understand this better then a lot of people.
↳
N - September 18th, 2012 at 3:37 PM
Um... wrong. Calling people out IS loving them. Or do you suggest we let murderers off the hook? What's the whole message of the gospel? You are a sinner you need God's free gift of grace. You start with calling them out. We are not called to judge the motives, only the actions. God handles the regeneration.
↳
Rick - August 5th, 2012 at 5:57 PM
↳
pat - July 28th, 2012 at 9:24 AM
And by the way, we ALL live in glass houses.
↳
Jon - July 28th, 2012 at 12:30 PM
Too bad jesus doesn't love you!
↳
JT - July 29th, 2012 at 12:53 AM
I'm not trying to be a jerk. I just genuinely want to know how your mind works. How do you think you are a Christian and living in willful, continual sin?
↳
Liz - July 29th, 2012 at 8:57 AM
Not everyone believes that monogamous homosexual relationships are actually sinful. There is disagreement on the context and interpretation of the scriptures that those who are against gay marriage, for instance, use as proof-texts. Personally, I do not believe that homosexual sex is part of God's good plan, but that does not mean that no one can disagree with me or you and still be a Christian. If a person is in fact in willful, continual sin, that's a problem. But if they don't believe it's a sin, it's not "willful," is it? To give another example, some people believe that it is a sin to swear. I do not believe that, and I do swear (although I try to be respectful of others in situations where it would cause hurt or offense). If it turns out that I am incorrect, and swearing is in fact a sin, I am in a sense living in "continual" sin, but I am not living in "willful" sin, and it does not affect the fact that I am a Christian. What would make it willful would be if I became convinced it was sinful and yet continued to do it. God is able to look on the heart.
↳
Rich - July 29th, 2012 at 11:42 AM
I could not disagree with you more. Whenever a person chooses to 'act', they do so as an act of their "will". Therefore, every act is "willful". Their choice may be based on misinformation, misunderstanding, or misconception,etc., but it is still an act of their will.
↳
Liz - July 29th, 2012 at 12:35 PM
Um, what? Okay, so in my case it would be "willful swearing" but not "willful sinning." (You can substitute dancing, playing cards, smoking, wearing jewelry, stealing, corporal punishment, enlisting in the army, or anything else anyone has considered sinful ever--whether they are right or wrong.) Again, not the same thing as "willful, continual sin." Willful action is different from willful sinning.
↳
payton - July 29th, 2012 at 5:36 PM
Jesus was angered, got out a whip to the sellers in the Temple, and said His house would be a house of prayer, it is to be devoted to honoring God. You don't mess with disrespecting God BLATANTLY. People have got to take the denial cap off, you KNOW that homosexuality is a sin and this sin is a continual conscious daily act, it is COMPLETELY different than "swearing" and trying to STOP, or accidentally gossiping and trying to do better, and striving to be more holy by trying to turn from the sin. THE LOVE is Not just sweety huggy mushy accepting stuff, TRUE Love will tell you the TRUTH b/c you care what God thinks and other people around you that the sin is rubbing off on, Love will be respectful to God's WORD first. All the skipping over the Gay issue will never lead to REPENTANCE, why would it if they don't fully understand it is wrong, there will be NO coming to the cross asking Jesus to change and forgive, FORGIVE what?, change what?, if you aren't laying this sin at the cross, ALOT of people are going to have a FALSE salvation and we as Christians are held accountable to tell the truth or the sins would Not be listed and how to handle them AFTER Jesus' death if they weren't made for us to discuss... Love with discipline helps us grow to maturity.
↳
payton - July 29th, 2012 at 5:41 PM
AND I don't mean we should hit people over the head but be firm and love and never stop sticking by a persons side but don't waver in the truth, don't skip over it, in the long run when a person finally realizes the sin they are caught up in they will be so respectful of God when the cage around their life is gone.
↳
Annie - July 31st, 2012 at 6:23 AM
Where is the "I love this" icon?
↳
Josh - July 31st, 2012 at 11:52 PM
Payton, there are a number of things in the Biblical moral code that people no longer consider "sin." Christians get tattoos. Women not only speak in church, but they are even ordained as pastors in many churches. Christians universally stand up against human slavery. Women can have short hair and men can have long hair, etc. But all of these were prohibited in the New Testament! If you take the very few passages about homosexuality in their historical contexts and original languages, they're far less "black and white" than we think. Pro-gay Christians have many valid arguments. A nuanced approach to the Bible will reveal that the issue isn't so cut and dry.
↳
Audra - August 1st, 2012 at 2:20 PM
^this^ for the win. Thank you, Josh.
↳
Lydia - August 1st, 2012 at 10:22 PM
We are certainly called to love and respect all people, regardless of what they believe and do. As to this issue, though, it's more cut and dry than some think. Slavery is NEVER condoned in the Bible, for example...the only times it seems to be are actually referring to more of an indentured servitude (Greek term "doulos"). The tattoo restriction was about the content of the specific tattoos to which the passage referred, which was pagan. Most of the OT practices and restrictions people like to bring up in this argument are either rendered unnecessary by Christ or specifically lifted later on (such as "do not eat" restrictions). Though I will still treat those who claim to be Christian and simultaneously living a homosexual lifestyle with love and respect, as Christians are called to do, they certainly do not have any valid Biblical arguments...even a very basic amount of research shows the misconceptions in their arguments. It gets far too detailed to go into on a thread that has already gotten too long. Some topics are harder to see the Biblical truth, such as church government, worship styles, infant/believer's baptism, but this is not one of them.
↳
Mary - August 1st, 2012 at 10:39 PM
Why is every one so considered about Chick-fil-a? They have had these views since they opened their doors. Either eat there or don't. If every one worried about themselves the world be run smoother. Speaking as a bisexual. I go about my business and keep it my business.
↳
Dan - August 2nd, 2012 at 2:06 PM
Thank you...thank you thank you thank you
↳
Shadi - August 2nd, 2012 at 6:06 PM
There is freedom in Christ. Christians getting tattoos and long or short hair is an inference to the "treating your body as a temple" and the whole "adornment" issue. Today, perhaps some people don't feel those are as black and white, but those were not issues of sin as much as they were guidelines without consequences for non-adherence. Women pastors is very much as contentious as homosexuality. Slavery was never condoned. Very few issues are "cut and dry" otherwise, there wouldn't be anybody on one of the sides. But it is silly to state that a person shouldn't fight for what they believe is right on one point because there are others who disagree with them. As a person who's read the Bible my whole life, and open-mindedly listened to the arguments on both sides, including a very well written and argued essay from Matthew Vines, and objectively looked at the non-religious, secular debate, I ultimately solidified my conviction that homosexuality, from a religious viewpoint, is a sin, and from a secular viewpoint is not natural. That's not to say, as a heterosexual, that I am in any way, better than them. I have my faults, I have my own daily struggles, and I fail at the most basic of commands. The difference is that I do not concede defeat, I do not conclude that's just who I am. I get up, acknowledge my shortcomings, confess my failures and strive to be better the next time I face my temptations. And each time I overcome, I get a little better at recognizing my own weaknesses and stay away from the things that cause me to stumble.
↳
Name - August 1st, 2012 at 6:10 PM
LIZ, no judgment here, but maybe this will help you with swearing...Ephesians 4:29 Don't use foul or abusive language. Let everything you say be good and helpful, so that your words will be an encouragement to those who hear them. NLT...other translations call it corrupt communications, filthy talk, evil talk, unwholesome talk.
And no I do not swear and yes it does bother me tremendously when people do, especially when they use Jesus as a swear word, especially Christians. Yes, God looks at your heart, but swearing coming out of a Christian mouth is a bad testimony for Christianity.
And no I do not swear and yes it does bother me tremendously when people do, especially when they use Jesus as a swear word, especially Christians. Yes, God looks at your heart, but swearing coming out of a Christian mouth is a bad testimony for Christianity.
↳
Bill - August 2nd, 2012 at 6:03 AM
Agree w Nicki
↳
christy b - August 2nd, 2012 at 9:06 AM
I often have told my own children that judging each other is a sin itself. Our society teaches judgement but you must train yourself to stand back and drop the judgement out of your mind. All sin is equal, so if I judge someone on their sin, they can judge me on mine (often referred as "the pot calling the kettle black"). I may look well put together on the outside, but I hold plenty of sin on the inside. Envy, jealousy, conceit, etc. Just because my sin isn't out there for the world to see, doesn't mean I am free of it.
Our sin is an issue between Our Maker and ourselves, not other sinners. They need to "tend to their gardens". I will continue to love all!
Our sin is an issue between Our Maker and ourselves, not other sinners. They need to "tend to their gardens". I will continue to love all!
↳
cindi - July 28th, 2012 at 10:37 AM
I could not agree with you more!!!!!
↳
Jody - July 30th, 2012 at 3:07 PM
I totally agree. I am a Christian and the only sins that I can hope to resolve are MY OWN...and only through Faith. I just can't recall any of Christ's teachings about judgement and ridicule. Acceptance and LOVE....so powerful, they can move people into Faith!
↳
Debby - August 2nd, 2012 at 1:45 PM
Why - that sounds rather . . . Biblical!
↳
MMM - July 28th, 2012 at 11:47 AM
I am just wondering if Jesus was the kind, gentle, loving, accepting man we like to think of him as....WHY DID they Kill him? Why was he Crucified? Did they kill him because HE ONLY loved and accepted everything and everyone? Was he in the basement when they came and charged him....torn off his clothes...spit upon him....pushed thorns into his brow??? What was he Guilty of??? Just wondering?
↳
John - July 28th, 2012 at 1:29 PM
He was murdered by some influential religious leaders of the day who were looking for their Messiah but blind to the fact that Jesus WAS their Messiah. They had a preconceived notion of what the Messiah would do and what he would be like. They thought "freedom" meant out from under earthly rule - the Roman kingdom. What Jesus brought was freedom in the spiritual realm- freedom from sin, guilt, and separation from God. When he proclaimed this, the "blasphemy" of his redemptive power over sin infuriated the religious leaders (who were NOT free from sin), and so they broke one of their beloved commands - "Thou shalt not murder." The paradox of this is that without Jesus' death, we would not be free. His resurrection from the dead is proof that death has been defeated - spiritual death AND physical death. One day we will fully realize both. Until then, this fallen world fights it, just like it did 2000 years ago.
↳
Scottie - July 28th, 2012 at 1:30 PM
Jesus was killed because he claimed to be the Son of God and the promised savior that the Jews had been waiting for. The religious people of the day didn't believe him and accused him of blasphemy, and eventually got so angry that they had him crucified. Their envy of how people were following him instead of them and how Jesus called them out in their hypocrisy also probably fueled the fire. If you want to know about Jesus, the book of John in the bible is a good place to start.
↳
Cara - July 28th, 2012 at 1:48 PM
↳
KS - July 28th, 2012 at 4:32 PM
I don't think MMM is asking a question. I think they are trying to say that Jesus was "in the basement". He wasn't out drawing lines in the sand or playing political games. He was loving and accepting everybody. So why did they kill him, if he was such a good person? Because it was a threat to those in power trying to control others.
Not to make matters worse - but perhaps someone else needs to open their bible and read it, and learn how to respond with love.
Not to make matters worse - but perhaps someone else needs to open their bible and read it, and learn how to respond with love.
↳
payton - July 29th, 2012 at 5:54 PM
yes and Jesus pulled out a whip to people selling in the Temple, he told people like it is, he preached it like it is, not always sweet foo foo talk. Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; MATTHEW 10:34 I have not come to bring peace, but a sword(to divide spirit and soul). 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 and a man's foes will be those of his own household. HE also said blessed are the peaceMAKERS, meaning Making peace sometimes is tough love, but within the big picture peace is obtained.
↳
JK - August 2nd, 2012 at 4:40 AM
I agree with Payton we're not called to be peace keepers but peace makers. Don't take any side but Jesus and pray for discernment. The intent is what should always be evaluated. We are called to share the truth in love. To those who choose to live a homosexual lifestyle we are called to love. By which we love them enough to be compassionate AND tell them the truth about what God says and that He desires that none should perish. BTW, Jesus didn't sugar coat things or turn a blind eye to sin either, in fact at times He was brutally honest, he called the pharicees a brood of vipers, and said to Peter "Get thee behind me satan". He spoke the truth in love in hope that they would repent. When it comes to compassion for those who are not yet saved, we need to remember we too were once deceived about living for ourselves but while we were still yet sinners, Christ died for us (how wonderful!). Now it is no longer we who live but Christ who lives in us because the truth has set us free and we should want the same for those who are not in the truth. It is not an us vs them, it is sharing with others to come to know (experience) the truth about God's love.
↳
Donna - July 31st, 2012 at 5:44 PM
Good job sweet cara...
↳
Autumn - July 29th, 2012 at 3:57 PM
Jen Hatmaker, this is one of the most real and beautiful things I've ever read. I hope everyone reads it!
↳
Karen - July 30th, 2012 at 6:40 PM
Well said, thank you!
↳
Richard - July 30th, 2012 at 10:15 PM
There are some who have lived in the "basement" and have come out with a re-newed perspective. Here is one person's pilgrimage:http://www.patheos.com/blogs/frenchrevolution/2012/05/23/an-open-letter-to-young-post-partisan-evangelicals/
This is a voice that should be part of the conversation as well.
This is a voice that should be part of the conversation as well.
↳
Nancy - August 1st, 2012 at 9:14 PM
I so agree!
↳
Amanda - August 1st, 2012 at 11:55 PM
And would everyone here by as proud of Cathy if he stated he opposed civil right for black people. Oh that's right....that was the 50's....when it was called racism/discrimination....and people were denied civil rights and hate speech was freely used against black people. This is 2012, and we're so much more acceptable of "free speech" when it comes to the civil rights of gay people and their right to marry. This issue isn't about being proud of who you are or free speech, it's about discriminating against a minority groups ability to have equal civil rights and about a majority group spreading hate towards a minority population again. History repeats itself, I hope you'll be proud of the position you took on this issue 50 years from now like those who wanted to make interracial marriage punishable by a court of law in the 1950s.
↳
karen - August 6th, 2012 at 4:43 AM
thank god someone is seeing the real issue here
↳
brady cottle - August 2nd, 2012 at 9:25 AM
Holy Cow! no pun intended VERY WELL SAID..Im headed to the basement too....
↳
Kathleen Turner - August 2nd, 2012 at 10:09 AM
Bravo! I can't add anything to that. It's exactly how I feel.
↳
Erica - August 2nd, 2012 at 10:15 AM
oh me too! Thank you so much for this. You said what I was feeling (and much more eloquently too)
↳
Name - August 2nd, 2012 at 3:05 PM
So glad that you can join us in the basement... know that you are not alone. A simple Canadian
↳
Dusty - August 5th, 2012 at 10:08 AM
Where is the basement idea biblical? I thought that to myself and realized that it is biblical. Or at least there is a biblical account of this sort of thinking and action.
I found this account in the book of Jonah. God calls Jonah to witness to a group of people and he runs from the Lords calling for him and he finds himself in the belly of a great fish. Only after Jonah repents and does what the Lord has called him to do, witness to the people of Nineveh, Jonah is spit out of the great fish.
Now, Christians, it is better to be spit out of the great fish and do what the Lord has called you to do, go out and make disciples of all nations, than to have Christ spit you out of his mouth.
For those of you who agree with this blog, now is your time for you to be like Jonah and heed the Lord's calling to be His witnesses to all nations.
Witness to ALL SINNERS and share the Gospel in Love.
Be like Jonah, all you Christians, obey the Lord and help others escape hell!
I found this account in the book of Jonah. God calls Jonah to witness to a group of people and he runs from the Lords calling for him and he finds himself in the belly of a great fish. Only after Jonah repents and does what the Lord has called him to do, witness to the people of Nineveh, Jonah is spit out of the great fish.
Now, Christians, it is better to be spit out of the great fish and do what the Lord has called you to do, go out and make disciples of all nations, than to have Christ spit you out of his mouth.
For those of you who agree with this blog, now is your time for you to be like Jonah and heed the Lord's calling to be His witnesses to all nations.
Witness to ALL SINNERS and share the Gospel in Love.
Be like Jonah, all you Christians, obey the Lord and help others escape hell!
↳
Mike - August 5th, 2012 at 2:57 PM
I wish you'd all get this f'n gay thing over with .... it's taking you guys way too long!!! Don't you know we have other great fetishes and twisted agenda's to push onto the sheple of the falling america ... Necrophilia and pedophilia (don't give me that crap about consenting adults - I was born with an uncontrollable desire ... it's in my genes! so I'm not responsible - everyone else is!) So, hurry up and make some laws that require everyone to think the way we think ... so we can start on the next movement - GO TEAM! Oh, and thank you very much ... all you do gooders! - burying your heads in the sand works wonders for us ... Gosh - I really love all of you! Just like Jesus ... Hope your daughter is in my 2nd grade class next year Looking forward to the "change!".
↳
Sara - October 20th, 2012 at 9:51 AM
I will gladly join you in the basement. I guess I am already there. It isn't easy to stand up for what you believe in - speaking up against those who are stuck in their religous practices that mean notihingm those who are homophobic, pastors speaking of money being the blessing God wants to give, friends who seem to be fine with the middle class privilige, etc. But it is worth it! I commend you, Jen, for speaking out!
Elizabeth Renfroe - July 27th, 2012 at 3:03 PM
Thank you for writing such an eloquent and reasonable response to this hoopla. I've tried to come up with a way to express my feelings, but have failed. Now, I can just share your post. Hanging out in my own basement in Jacksonville, AL.
Mindy - July 27th, 2012 at 3:04 PM
Oh, thank Goodness! I was hoping I would still like you after this. I do. Yeah! I'm sure you're breathing a sign of relief. :)
M. Cargile - July 27th, 2012 at 3:05 PM
Yes and amen.
Cynthia - July 27th, 2012 at 3:06 PM
Reposting on facebook. This is exactly what I was trying to say.
Melody Hanson - July 27th, 2012 at 3:06 PM
Thank you. This was amazing. All I can say is another thank you. I breathed deeply of grace.
Name - July 27th, 2012 at 3:06 PM
THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS. It needed to be said/written.
Christy - July 27th, 2012 at 3:07 PM
Yes. THIS.
You have said what my heart has struggled with for days. I am over all the bashing on both sides and shall gladly join you in the basement...all I want to do is love Jesus and love others and extend grace and not judgement....
So count me in as one of the basement dwellers.
You have said what my heart has struggled with for days. I am over all the bashing on both sides and shall gladly join you in the basement...all I want to do is love Jesus and love others and extend grace and not judgement....
So count me in as one of the basement dwellers.
↳
Debbie - July 28th, 2012 at 9:43 AM
Amen!
Lori Mercer - July 27th, 2012 at 3:07 PM
(all caps because it deserves it) WHERE WAS THIS AMAZINGLY ELOQUENT POST LAST WEEK WHEN I WAS TRYING TO SAY THIS EXACT SAME THING IN A RIDICULOUS FACEBOOK TRAP I FELL INTO?????? As the British would say, brilliant. I'm forwarding this to everyone and then I'm going to the basement.
↳
Susan - July 28th, 2012 at 2:45 PM
Lori,
Don't ya' HATE when you fall into those traps!! Your comment is great and made me laugh because every time I fall into one I swear I'm never doing it again...
:)
Don't ya' HATE when you fall into those traps!! Your comment is great and made me laugh because every time I fall into one I swear I'm never doing it again...
:)
Adrian W. - July 27th, 2012 at 3:07 PM
I get the tornado analogy. Wichita got womped this spring with 'em.
Anyway, that's kind of how I've been feeling about all this nonsense. It's all. just. stupid. I just want to chill in the basement til the crap blows over. I don't care who's ultimately wrong and ultimately right. All I know is Jesus Christ crucified and resurrected to new life, so that we might love more fully (which ISN'T code for "You have the authority to shove your opinions down the throats of others who just don't give a crap.")
Anyway, that's kind of how I've been feeling about all this nonsense. It's all. just. stupid. I just want to chill in the basement til the crap blows over. I don't care who's ultimately wrong and ultimately right. All I know is Jesus Christ crucified and resurrected to new life, so that we might love more fully (which ISN'T code for "You have the authority to shove your opinions down the throats of others who just don't give a crap.")
Joana - July 27th, 2012 at 3:08 PM
Yes. Yes. A thousand times. Yes! This. Exactly. Once again you've put words to what I knew in my heart but couldn't express. Thank you.
Tamara - July 27th, 2012 at 3:09 PM
I'll join you in the basement....I'm bringing the sweet tea. Thank you sister for this post. MUCH needed
Samantha - July 27th, 2012 at 3:09 PM
Beautiful!!! I'm happy to join you in the basement.
michael j. kimpan - July 27th, 2012 at 3:09 PM
yes yes yes.
Rebekah - July 27th, 2012 at 3:10 PM
I'm coming to the basement with you, and I'll take a Chik-fil-A #1, with a lemonade. :)
Tracy - July 27th, 2012 at 3:10 PM
Very well said! Thank you Jen!
Kristen Swartz - July 27th, 2012 at 3:12 PM
I will be having my own basement party here in Guatemala. Thanks for sharing my views.
Leigh - July 27th, 2012 at 3:12 PM
Thank. You. When i first saw your tweet with the post I thought: Oh please no, don't let Jen be talking about it too. But I read anyways because I love your voice and wanted to hear what you had to say. Bam. You nailed it. So over the stupid debate. So so so so over it.
Kim Jones - July 27th, 2012 at 3:13 PM
Wow! Tears because you are able to verbalized with your God given talent what I and others would like to say...Thank you!
Amy Boone - July 27th, 2012 at 3:13 PM
Beautiful. Amazing. Awe inspiring. Exactly what I've been trying to say for a long time now. Thank you.
Angela - July 27th, 2012 at 3:13 PM
I agree and I am so proud of you for posting this!
cara - July 27th, 2012 at 3:13 PM
Im In!! In the Basement with all the people who just want to LOVE. Love everybody Just like Jesus did. Thank You so much for all your words you speak. Im reading Interupted and I must say I am and wll continue to be a different person after I complete it. So Thank YOu. For not just speaking Jesus but doing Jesus!!!
Brenna - July 27th, 2012 at 3:14 PM
I am so glad that I can have a party in the basement with others who don't think it a sin if I don't "like" a picture of Jesus on Facebook. You bring the chicken, I'll bring the Diet Coke.
Becky - July 27th, 2012 at 3:15 PM
Love myself a good nugget platter. And hunkering down with people who love... without that, we have just become clanging cymbals. And that's all that I hear coming from most...
Denise - July 27th, 2012 at 3:15 PM
Amen!! The thing that saddens me the most is that there is no tolerance for others anymore. I'm trying to teach my children to love their neighbors and to be the face of Jesus and it gets ever more difficult to spot others living that out in the real world. I will gladly join you in the basement! I'll be bringing along all of my sins and no stones to cast at others. I can also bring the waffle fries and cheese sauce. Please pass the nuggets!
↳
Linda - July 27th, 2012 at 3:34 PM
I really agree with teaching tolerance and I believe things would be less volatile if people would stop confusing tolerance with acceptance. Tolerance -- the ability or willingness to tolerate something, in particular the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with; vs. Acceptance -- agreement with or belief in an idea, opinion, or explanation.
↳
Andrea - July 27th, 2012 at 4:17 PM
I'm thinking that Jesus didn't tolerate or accept - He just loved.
↳
Nancy - July 27th, 2012 at 5:32 PM
↳
Sarah - July 27th, 2012 at 6:38 PM
Actually, Jesus neither accepted nor tolerated the behavior of the Pharisees (the church leaders of his day)...
↳
↳
rw - August 1st, 2012 at 12:04 PM
huh?
Kris - July 27th, 2012 at 3:15 PM
Love it! I've always wanted a basement...thanks putting into words what I couldn't! BTW just finished 7 and I'm wrecked... ;0)
glynis - July 27th, 2012 at 3:16 PM
beautiful. I'm coming to your basement.
Darin - July 27th, 2012 at 3:16 PM
Finally, how I feel, written down beautifully and finally I feel worthy of sharing to my small but important audiance which includes gay and straight. What kind of Christians would we be if we have none of them in our lives? I support CFA, always have and will but at the same time I feel the need to apologize to my gay friends by the reaction of "Christians" from all this crap! Anyway, thanks, thank you...
Kristen - July 27th, 2012 at 3:17 PM
All I can say, is thank Jesus someone was able to put into words what I've been mumbling to myself
Nichole - July 27th, 2012 at 3:17 PM
"If I could speak in any language in heaven or on earth, but didn't love others, I would only be making meaningless noise like a loud gong or a clanging cymbal." 1 Cor 13:1
Thank you, Jen, for letting God's grace and love flow through you.
Thank you, Jen, for letting God's grace and love flow through you.
Laurajane - July 27th, 2012 at 3:17 PM
i'm gladly running down to the basement to join you. thank you so much for putting words to what my heart was holding inside.
Laura - July 27th, 2012 at 3:18 PM
Thank you for this eleoquent post. I would love to join you all in the basement to wait for the storm to pass by. I will, however, bring my own peanut butter sandwich!
Erin - July 27th, 2012 at 3:18 PM
Absolutely!!!!!!!!! :) Thanks for your beautiful words Jen!
Tammy - July 27th, 2012 at 3:18 PM
I LOVE YOU!!! THANK YOU SOOO MUCH!!
Camille - July 27th, 2012 at 3:19 PM
I'm retreating from the storm because I think Jesus meant it when he said the greatest commandment was to love God and the 2nd greatest commandment was to love your neighbor as yourself. Nobody feels loved while engaged and caught up in war. I'm enjoying the basement right now and asking God to continue revealing more of the basement to me!
amber - July 27th, 2012 at 3:20 PM
"Sure, the storm will rage on up there. But you can find refuge just down the stairs. We have a whole thing going on underground. Gay friends and family, you are welcome down here. Marginalized women, come on down. Isolated and confused by organized religion, afraid your questions aren’t welcomed? Join us. Activists and bleeding hearts, you are our heartbeat. Plain, old, ordinary sinners saved by grace, you belong here. Misfits, ragamuffins, and rebels, bring the party. Reformed legalists, you are my people. Pastors contending for God’s glory and people, help lead us. Dissenters, dreamers, visionaries, we need you." -
Thank you for this...Sounds like a song
Thank you for this...Sounds like a song
Kellie - July 27th, 2012 at 3:20 PM
This. Thank you. I wish my Christian facebook friends were as passionate about evangelism, justice, and mercy as they are about politics. Jesus resisted all attempts to politicize him. I wonder if after saying, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's," he added silently to himself, "Meatheads." I'm coming to the basement and I'm bringing margaritas.
↳
Alex - August 3rd, 2012 at 3:02 AM
"I wonder if after saying, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's," he added silently to himself, "Meatheads.""
I love this! Almost had milk coming out of my nose!
I love this! Almost had milk coming out of my nose!
Tracey Seth - July 27th, 2012 at 3:20 PM
I'm just tired that because I won't support the liberal gay agenda that I am a bad person. My pet peeve is the idea, "If you aren't for me, then you hate me."
Tired.
Of.
It.
Tired.
Of.
It.
↳
Ruth - July 27th, 2012 at 5:47 PM
"liberal gay agenda?" That's full of love, isn't it?
↳
Ohiocpa - July 27th, 2012 at 8:35 PM
↳
Ruth - July 27th, 2012 at 9:49 PM
I'd hardly call a label such as liberal gay agenda a love-filled way to describe it. That's culture war jargon and not a term that's reflective of grace toward anyone.
↳
Jen - July 28th, 2012 at 10:18 AM
You agree with Jen's post...yet you totally judge this person for expressing an opinion, just because of the semantics they chose? I understood their response as being tired of "disagreement" being equated with "hate", and the "liberal gay agenda" referring to politics, not people. So you didn't care for the choice of words. They agree with the concept that they are tired of the hate and politics and the war. Is there no room in the basement for this person??
↳
Ruth - July 28th, 2012 at 8:51 PM
Words matter. The language we choose matters. If someone is truly tired of the hate and politics and war, then they ought not use the exact same verbiage that's being peddled by the generals fighting and leading the war.
I'm not in the basement...So whoever wants to go down, can go down. I don't want to go in the basement because the church is WAY overdue for a genuine and frank conversation about homosexuality as a sin and how we treat gay people. And that goes far beyond the current chicken flap. Why are gay people not welcome to come into the church house with their partner, but we welcome two people of the opposite sex who have been divorced and even let them walk down the church aisle to proclaim their love to each other? Something doesn't sync up.
I'm not in the basement...So whoever wants to go down, can go down. I don't want to go in the basement because the church is WAY overdue for a genuine and frank conversation about homosexuality as a sin and how we treat gay people. And that goes far beyond the current chicken flap. Why are gay people not welcome to come into the church house with their partner, but we welcome two people of the opposite sex who have been divorced and even let them walk down the church aisle to proclaim their love to each other? Something doesn't sync up.
↳
Justin - July 29th, 2012 at 1:03 AM
Completely agree
↳
Meg - July 29th, 2012 at 3:23 AM
" I don't want to go in the basement because the church is WAY overdue for a genuine and frank conversation about homosexuality as a sin and how we treat gay people."
^^^This. This is exactly how I feel on the matter. Well said. Though the post is very beautiful, I simply cannot agree for the reason you've so consisely stated above. Thank you!
^^^This. This is exactly how I feel on the matter. Well said. Though the post is very beautiful, I simply cannot agree for the reason you've so consisely stated above. Thank you!
↳
payton - July 29th, 2012 at 7:15 PM
Ruth, people getting a divorce is WAY different than homosexuality partners attending church, the bible does not like divorce but it allows it for specific reasons, it does Not allow homosexuality. Also sounds like you are JUDGing the divorced person coming to church, how do you know if thAat person at church did NOT want the divorce, how do you know they tried everything to stay with the person but the spouse left and divorced them, it was out of their hands or they were abused, etc.. Such a difference I can't understand why I have to explain it except that many people haven't Studied the bible as they say.
↳
Cathy - August 1st, 2012 at 7:20 PM
↳
Lydia - August 1st, 2012 at 10:33 PM
The Bible does allow for divorce in certain situations. For example, in Matthew 5 and Matthew 19 it is stated that in cases of sexual immorality, it is permissible. It is also allowed in cases where one spouse is in danger from the other. It is permissible but certainly never redemptive...just something to deal with more of the fallout from our sin.
↳
Amy - August 1st, 2012 at 1:34 PM
My pastor has preached several sermons on making EVERYONE at our church feel welcome. INCLUDING and ESPECIALLY people who are gay. Not every church hates on people who are gay. We love everyone.
↳
Linda - August 1st, 2012 at 11:24 PM
Ruth- she didn't say that. She was saying that she has seen those words thrown around by people saying they are Christians. Here is what she said.
And lest you unfairly brand me as a mouthpiece for the right, I hate the culture wars on both sides of the party line. Christians, do you really think posting pithy statements on Facebook about “standing firm in our values†and “resisting the liberal media†is helping?
And lest you unfairly brand me as a mouthpiece for the right, I hate the culture wars on both sides of the party line. Christians, do you really think posting pithy statements on Facebook about “standing firm in our values†and “resisting the liberal media†is helping?
↳
Kristin - July 27th, 2012 at 9:31 PM
Not very loving or Christian of you, Tracey. Someday, when you meet God in Heaven, he'll say, "Now, what did you mean exactly about the liberal gay agenda? Are you talking about those beautiful people I made?"
↳
Ruth - July 27th, 2012 at 9:52 PM
Amen, Kristin.
↳
Lauren - July 27th, 2012 at 11:02 PM
Amen! The woe is me attitude is killing me too - and comparing themselves to blacks to throw in the guilt meter.
↳
Sarah - July 28th, 2012 at 3:13 AM
Yes because we all know how black people enjoyed the support of most Christians when they fought for equal ri...oh wait. That's right. Many conservative Christians didn't support them until after the tide had turned...oh wait...most conservative Christians support efforts to disenfranchise black voters and efforts to end affrimative action.Gay friends, comparing yourselves to black Americans really won't win over the right or conservative Christians.As you can see from the previous post, they are not really people (black people), they are just "blacks." And you are "the gays." It's much easier to not apply Christian love when you reject an entire group's status as humans...humans God made and are deserving of love.
↳
tiffani - July 28th, 2012 at 3:29 AM
*sloooooooow clap* right on.
↳
Juliaj - July 28th, 2012 at 10:07 AM
Dang Gina! I mean Sara;) That right there was on point. Well said.
↳
Me - July 28th, 2012 at 11:02 AM
Boy....self-righteous yourself while patting yourself on the back for not being that way. Tell me how "most conservative Christians support efforts to disenfranchise black voters." Would you please?
As for this blog post.....it strikes me the same way. Did make me think some. I do think that there is room in the basement for all of those people. I think, however, some of those people are trying their hardest to get rid of that basement (religious liberties, for example) and that's why people fight it. Not because they're hateful. Not because they think "those others sin." But because they're afraid we're losing our freedom to worship Jesus.
As for this blog post.....it strikes me the same way. Did make me think some. I do think that there is room in the basement for all of those people. I think, however, some of those people are trying their hardest to get rid of that basement (religious liberties, for example) and that's why people fight it. Not because they're hateful. Not because they think "those others sin." But because they're afraid we're losing our freedom to worship Jesus.
↳
De - August 1st, 2012 at 6:27 PM
I don't know if they were Christian, or how conservative they were, but Republicans passed a better civil rights act than the one LBJ finally signed. So I don't see the disenfranchising comment. And I agree: I am supporting Chik-fil-A and other causes not because I hate anyone, but because I see our freedoms slipping away. I want my grandchildren to freely worship our Savior one day!
Dawn - July 27th, 2012 at 3:21 PM
YES
Gina - July 27th, 2012 at 3:21 PM
This is perfect. I'm a Christ-follower and love the people who God made, regardless of their sexual orientation. I shared this on Facebook. This is one of my favorite blog posts I've ever read.
nancy - July 27th, 2012 at 3:22 PM
Ironically you and a gay Catholic political writer both addressed my discomfort with this insanity.
He calls out the gay community for acting contrary to everything they have been fighting for.
http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/07/emanuel-and-menino-liberal-thugs.html
He calls out the gay community for acting contrary to everything they have been fighting for.
http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/07/emanuel-and-menino-liberal-thugs.html
Krystle - July 27th, 2012 at 3:22 PM
Great, Great, Great! Jesus and I had a little conversation yesterday, and He informed me that I did not have to combat attacks with more attacks. I joined you in the basement yesterday! Excellent post!
Mikki - July 27th, 2012 at 3:23 PM
Literally sipping my Diet Lemonade from my CFA cup while reading this. Totally in the basement in Tuscaloosa, Alabama.... and this time, HAPPY to be there. "Don't you just LOVE love?" That's a quote in a movie, by the way....do you know which one? It's one of my favorites.
↳
Jess - July 28th, 2012 at 10:53 PM
Kaci - July 27th, 2012 at 3:23 PM
Thank you for speaking truth...I'll gladly join you in the basement.
@OdysseyMamaC - July 27th, 2012 at 3:23 PM
THANK YOU and AMEN! I addressed similar feelings in this post: http://embracingtheodyssey.com/christians-rainbow-oreos-and-outrage/. I wrote about Oreos, but I hadn't gotten around to tackling chicken yet...just too ridiculously frustrating. Now I'm just gonna go all link-a-palooza with your post. PLEASE let me join you in the basement. I'll bring Oreos to go with the chicken, and we can blast some of those country hits you wrote about a while back. Awesome. :-)
gina - July 27th, 2012 at 3:23 PM
Nothing but love for this! Well said!
joy - July 27th, 2012 at 3:23 PM
i'd like to have beer in the basement, too. it can be shiner's bock for you:)
Bonky's Mama - July 27th, 2012 at 3:25 PM
Yes. This. And chicken cuz it is actually chicken and not grey solid something-a-ruther. And sweet tea. And BBQ sauce.
My other favorite is that I shouldn't shop at Target bc they support gay rights.
Well...I'll wear my target clothes when I show up w chick-fil-a. And I will still vote republican. And we have two chocolate-skinned beauties. How is that for a life of contrastedness? I make up words, too.
Go figure. :)
My other favorite is that I shouldn't shop at Target bc they support gay rights.
Well...I'll wear my target clothes when I show up w chick-fil-a. And I will still vote republican. And we have two chocolate-skinned beauties. How is that for a life of contrastedness? I make up words, too.
Go figure. :)
Dan - July 27th, 2012 at 3:26 PM
Wow. I'm an atheist. But I'm duly impressed by your wisdom and courage.
↳
Rebecca - July 27th, 2012 at 10:11 PM
you are welcome in the basement too! :)
Kelli - July 27th, 2012 at 3:27 PM
I am so glad to have read this! You said it so clearly! I think I'm heading to the basement with you!
Jill Jefferson - July 27th, 2012 at 3:27 PM
Nicolette - July 27th, 2012 at 3:28 PM
Amen!!
In the midst of everything else I have read and heard this calls to my heart and I clearly hear The Holy Spirit talking through you! Amen.
In the midst of everything else I have read and heard this calls to my heart and I clearly hear The Holy Spirit talking through you! Amen.
Denise - July 27th, 2012 at 3:28 PM
LOVE, LOVE, LOVE this! Thank you. Right before I saw this I posted the following. If anyone can spare $3.00 please help!
Let me start by saying I am a COMPLETE Chick-fil-a fan and supporter! I've been to 4 Grand Openings and used the stuffed cow as my focus object in labor. But all this talk about Chick-fil-a and Dan Cathy's beliefs are irrelevant! Don't we have bigger things to worry about as a country? How about actually DOING the work of Christ instead of talking about what Christ says? Did you know that in more than 13 different verses in the Bible that it mentions actually HELPING the orphan? I PERSONALLY know and love 96 of them in Sierra Leone and right now they are getting ready to be homeless unless we raise $18,000 in the next week! Right now there are 5 million PLUS people who "like" Chick-fil-a and 182K who are talking about them on Facebook. Let's put our money (and chicken) where our mouth is as Christians. If everyone who "likes" Chick-fil-a gave the equivalent of the cost of a chicken sandwich about $3.00 that would be 15 MILLION dollars!!!!!!! How many orphans could we help with that??? What if we only gave $1? 5 Million raised! .50 cents? Only a mere 2.5 Million raised! Please watch this video and DO the work of Christ today instead of talking about it. Donate the cost of a chicken sandwich! Every little bit helps!
http://​savetheorphan.blogspot.com/​2012/07/​new-video-expanding-our-territo​ry.html?m=1
Let me start by saying I am a COMPLETE Chick-fil-a fan and supporter! I've been to 4 Grand Openings and used the stuffed cow as my focus object in labor. But all this talk about Chick-fil-a and Dan Cathy's beliefs are irrelevant! Don't we have bigger things to worry about as a country? How about actually DOING the work of Christ instead of talking about what Christ says? Did you know that in more than 13 different verses in the Bible that it mentions actually HELPING the orphan? I PERSONALLY know and love 96 of them in Sierra Leone and right now they are getting ready to be homeless unless we raise $18,000 in the next week! Right now there are 5 million PLUS people who "like" Chick-fil-a and 182K who are talking about them on Facebook. Let's put our money (and chicken) where our mouth is as Christians. If everyone who "likes" Chick-fil-a gave the equivalent of the cost of a chicken sandwich about $3.00 that would be 15 MILLION dollars!!!!!!! How many orphans could we help with that??? What if we only gave $1? 5 Million raised! .50 cents? Only a mere 2.5 Million raised! Please watch this video and DO the work of Christ today instead of talking about it. Donate the cost of a chicken sandwich! Every little bit helps!
http://​savetheorphan.blogspot.com/​2012/07/​new-video-expanding-our-territo​ry.html?m=1
↳
Valerie - July 28th, 2012 at 12:28 AM
Or adopt one.
Julie - July 27th, 2012 at 3:29 PM
I will join you! Thank you Jen!
Donna - July 27th, 2012 at 3:29 PM
Yes!!! Well said! I just love you and your writing style!!! You are blessed with an awesome talent!!
Celia - July 27th, 2012 at 3:30 PM
Yes, yes, yes. This is exactly why I've fallen in love with you just a little bit :). You voiced so well my feelings - I find this whole argument to just be so besides the point of Jesus.
Sharon - July 27th, 2012 at 3:31 PM
Yes, yes, yes. Thank you...I'll join you in the basement.
Renee - July 27th, 2012 at 3:35 PM
I love Kristen's comment. Amen and Amen!
Jen Barrett - July 27th, 2012 at 3:35 PM
You have so very eloquently penned what I've wished for a long time I could voice properly. I will definitely be sharing this. Thank you, Jen!!!
Celeste Barnard - July 27th, 2012 at 3:36 PM
I'm coming down, can someone grab me the honey mustard?
Christina - July 27th, 2012 at 3:37 PM
I love it.
Shelley - July 27th, 2012 at 3:38 PM
Hit it on the nose, Jen. Love it!
Jeff - July 27th, 2012 at 3:39 PM
I am a Reform Jew. (Like Jesus was) A Moderate politically, and I support the rights of an individual (CEO or not) see express his beliefs and his companies beliefs. Those who don't want to shop at this place of business any more need not.
I also think though, that for those who study the historical Jesus well...(I don't mean what was written after him by his followers when they created Christianity)....It's clear that his sense of social justice for all...and love for all....means that he clearly would have supported the rights of all to marry. It's crystal clear as a matter of fact. Dogma says no perhaps....but Jesus would have said yes.
I also think though, that for those who study the historical Jesus well...(I don't mean what was written after him by his followers when they created Christianity)....It's clear that his sense of social justice for all...and love for all....means that he clearly would have supported the rights of all to marry. It's crystal clear as a matter of fact. Dogma says no perhaps....but Jesus would have said yes.
↳
Mary Kay - July 27th, 2012 at 9:20 PM
Sorry, Jeff, but He did say homosexuality is a sin. We are to love the sinner but hate the sin. Jesus would NOT have supported gay marriage.
↳
Larry - July 27th, 2012 at 10:26 PM
Jesus never mentioned homosexuaity in any way, ever. Paul did. Great, thoughtful piece, Jen.
↳
↳
Susan - July 27th, 2012 at 10:32 PM
Mary Kay - Where did Jesus make the statement to which you refer? I think you are remembering Paul, not Jesus. I think our Jewish friend is right.
↳
Me - July 28th, 2012 at 7:48 PM
The entire Bible is the infallible, inspired work of the Holy Spirit. So Paul is the mouth piece for GOd the Father. And as we know He and the Father are one. Sooooo yes technically Jesus did say it.
↳
April - July 30th, 2012 at 12:33 AM
Jeff, Jesus made it clear that he came to fulfill the law. He mentioned the laws that changed and had the apostles reiterate those changes. The apostles followed Jesus in doctrine, and quoted the same laws Jesus did, including the changed ones. So to think "that's Paul's opinion, not Jesus' command" is to embrace a lie and be deceived. The Levitical law is the law Jesus came to fulfill. It was made to keep the Israelites as pure as possible until Jesus died on the cross. His death fulfilled the purpose of the law which is sanctification and salvation. Because of that, all laws contrary to his sacrifice and grace have been changed.
God made everything perfectly, male and female, to take care of and replenish (populate) the earth. Jesus quoted some laws that were changed and told the masses that they didn't apply anymore. He never mentioned the ones about homosexuality as being changed. He also didn't have to make people aware of those laws, ie mention them, because Jews already knew homosexuality was considered a sin, for they were aware of the law which Jesus spoke of. So, what you say is folly because Jewish life revolved around the Levitical law, and so did Jesus' life before he began his ministry. And that law is what states that homosexuality is a sin. Jesus changed some, yes. But, not the ones against homosexuality. Otherwise he would have definitely mentioned them as changed. And saying that you're a reformed Jew means nothing. It doesn't validate or strengthen your argument. Sin is sin regardless of what you choose to rebelliously believe.
One more thing, if what you believe about homosexuality was true, the world would not want to embrace it and it would have been considered dated, boring, instead of traditional marriage. In other words, everything that's said/done about traditional marriage would have been said/done about homosexuality if it wasn't a sin. The world follows Satan, who is it's prince. So, naturally, the world rebels against God.
God made everything perfectly, male and female, to take care of and replenish (populate) the earth. Jesus quoted some laws that were changed and told the masses that they didn't apply anymore. He never mentioned the ones about homosexuality as being changed. He also didn't have to make people aware of those laws, ie mention them, because Jews already knew homosexuality was considered a sin, for they were aware of the law which Jesus spoke of. So, what you say is folly because Jewish life revolved around the Levitical law, and so did Jesus' life before he began his ministry. And that law is what states that homosexuality is a sin. Jesus changed some, yes. But, not the ones against homosexuality. Otherwise he would have definitely mentioned them as changed. And saying that you're a reformed Jew means nothing. It doesn't validate or strengthen your argument. Sin is sin regardless of what you choose to rebelliously believe.
One more thing, if what you believe about homosexuality was true, the world would not want to embrace it and it would have been considered dated, boring, instead of traditional marriage. In other words, everything that's said/done about traditional marriage would have been said/done about homosexuality if it wasn't a sin. The world follows Satan, who is it's prince. So, naturally, the world rebels against God.
Tara - July 27th, 2012 at 3:39 PM
If there was a Chick Fil in Port au Prince I'd head there RIGHT>NOW ... but as it turns out there are real problems here in Port au Prince and hardly any of it has to do with being played like a fiddle by the freakin media and helping them with their master plan of having us all act like huge a-holes. The world has real problems. What the free (America is still allowing everyone to have their own opinions, yes?) individual guy that started Chick Fil A or Starbucks or Wam-Mart thinks ain't one of em.
It's weird (read: disconcerting) to watch all of this from here, I know that much.
All that to say. AY-MEN.
It's weird (read: disconcerting) to watch all of this from here, I know that much.
All that to say. AY-MEN.
↳
Chrissy Plunkett - July 28th, 2012 at 8:24 AM
Still praying for you and your family Tara! You are right. I wish Americans would get out of America and experience the real world of ''loving others'' in the pit of despair
Beth - July 27th, 2012 at 3:40 PM
It seems like your argument leaves out some key information. People are not up in arms over the fact that the CEO doesn't personally believe in gay marriage. It's that Chick-fil-A provides money and other resources to organizations fighting same-sex marriage. Many patrons don't want their money going towards supporting a cause that they don't believe in. They have a right for their opinion to be heard just like the Cathys do. Additionally, it's easy to flippantly dismiss the importance of gay marriage when it doesn't affect you on a personal basis and to point out the fact that starving people have more urgent problems. If that's true then wouldn't it make more sense for a company like Chick-fil-A to donate the money that they spend on fighting gay marriage to an organization that feeds the hungry instead?
↳
Jennifer - July 27th, 2012 at 3:59 PM
Beth, here's the problem. Not in that the CEO supports something that goes against your beliefs, its that he is open about it. I dare say there are organizations all over this country whose CEOs are donating money to causes neither you or I believe in, and we will never know about it. That is their right as the CEO to do with their profit as they see fit. Its a dangerous line when government starts limiting any company from doing commerce based on their religious, political, or personal beliefs. Like Jen said, it swings both ways. What happens if the Bible Belt decides to deny a business permit because the owner of the supports gay rights? The screams would be heard around the world and this is no different.
Again, its his company. He can donate to whichever cause he wants, as can anyone, CEO or not. I'm sure your laundromat, your liquor store, your grocery store, your mom and pop store, all donate a part of their profits to the cause of their choice. And I, for one, refuse to ask each person I do business with to answer a checklist of questions just to make sure we believe in the same things before I do business with them. THAT is the very definition of intolerance.
Again, its his company. He can donate to whichever cause he wants, as can anyone, CEO or not. I'm sure your laundromat, your liquor store, your grocery store, your mom and pop store, all donate a part of their profits to the cause of their choice. And I, for one, refuse to ask each person I do business with to answer a checklist of questions just to make sure we believe in the same things before I do business with them. THAT is the very definition of intolerance.
↳
Beth - July 27th, 2012 at 4:19 PM
I agree that business owners have the right to donate to whatever cause they want. And most people are not going to question every business that they patronize to see if their beliefs align. But here's the thing, Cathy came right out to the media and spoke about his and Chick-fil-A's support of groups fighting same-sex marriage. He intentionally made it a public issue. He knew that there would be backlash, but he felt it worth the risk. People simply became more aware of how some of Chick-fil-A's profits are distributed, and they are responding in accordance with their beliefs.
↳
Kate Wilson - July 27th, 2012 at 5:04 PM
Beth, I think individual citizens should be allowed to make, and indeed will make, their own personal decisions about where to shop after knowing where proceeds may go. I don't think that's the issue at hand. The issue is that the local governments are getting involved: city governments and the Boston mayor are saying they don't want to give permits to Chick-fil-a because of where Chick-fil-a's profits go--and I don't care how it's spun--that is wrong. No government in this country should have the right to turn down legitimate businesses from getting permits just because they don't agree with the business leader's opinion. It would be just as offensive if businesses were turned down permits because their CEO was gay or muslim--it infringes on the rights of those business leaders. I believe every individual should have the right to spend money where they want, and if they don't want to support Chick-fil-a, that's fine. But the government should not be trying to stop them from opening completely legal and legitimate business. Not only is it unconstitutional, but it's also a slippery slope for more government control.
↳
Beth - July 27th, 2012 at 6:03 PM
It seems like there are many issues at hand with this topic. However, it's highly unlikely that these businesses will actually be denied permits in the end, and it's even more unlikely that more government control will be the result of this issue. That slippery slope thing doesn't usually play out how people think it will.
It's also interesting that individuals are crying "discrimination" as if Chick-fil-A will be the victim in the end (There's a good chance that they will see increased profits because of the voicing of their beliefs). Many would argue that the true individuals being discriminated against are those that aren't able to marry the individual of their choosing
It's also interesting that individuals are crying "discrimination" as if Chick-fil-A will be the victim in the end (There's a good chance that they will see increased profits because of the voicing of their beliefs). Many would argue that the true individuals being discriminated against are those that aren't able to marry the individual of their choosing
↳
Tara - July 27th, 2012 at 4:02 PM
... point well taken Beth, I admit I am tired of the hyperbole and the amount of energy that goes to these sorts of battles always leaves me feeling somewhat hopeless.
↳
ej - July 27th, 2012 at 5:06 PM
how do you know that Chick-fil-a doesn't contribute money to feed the hungry or any number of worthy causes?
↳
Beth - July 27th, 2012 at 5:36 PM
That wasn't the point that I was trying to make. The idea that there's a hierarchy of people's suffering and that only the top tier should be dealt with is a dangerous way of looking at things. Sometimes we need to prioritize how our resources are spent, but to say that one man's plight doesn't deserve attention because another man is hungry isn't logical or compassionate.
↳
Marisa - July 28th, 2012 at 8:33 AM
I could be wrong, but I took Jen's comments about focusing on the poor and hungry to be directed at Christians who are spending all their time arguing about gay marriage. I don't think she was saying that we shouldn't care about other injustices.
↳
Jami - July 27th, 2012 at 8:37 PM
↳
KB - July 28th, 2012 at 7:59 AM
My husband and I own a chick-fil-A in a small town in Arkansas. We are independent business owners in business with Chick-fil-A. For fear of retaliation of people on here and all over social media I do not feel I can come out publicly with my name or our location. Beth, in regards to what you said...we have received many phone calls and first time as well as repeat customers are sharing with us they have come to support us because of the backlash that Chick-fil-A is receiving from government officials (mayors and so forth) saying we are not welcomed in their town and they will prevent us from getting permits because our beliefs do not match up with their city's beliefs (or better yet their personal beliefs). They tell us over and over again...these people are crossing the line by saying this. But in the end you are right, more government control will not be the issue. These government officials don't have a leg to stand on but merely voicing their opinion in this way has awoken many Americans to take a stand. At least, this is what our customers are telling us. Mr. Cathy is free to give his money to whomever he wishes and people are free to not patronize our restaurant. Unfortunately, many of the organizations WinShape gives to are deemed "hate groups" by the GLBT community. Organizations like Family Life which is a Christian organization that used and uses some of their money to help in the fight of whether marriage should be redefined. They certainly do a lot more with their money and invest heavily in saving marriages because divorce too is a big problem in our country. Many on the side of GLBT see them as "anti-gay" however if you are a person wanting to protect the sanctity of marriage then you see them as "pro family/pro traditional marriage. Many of the organizations that have been deemed "hate groups" I would bet are not considered "hate groups" by the majority of Americans. Fighting to protect the sanctity of marriage does not make you a hater. And these organizations do more than just fight to protect the definition of marriage. That is not the sole plight of their organization. Family Research Council also encompasses human life and bioethics, religious liberty and media (particularly what is broadcast on TV and pornography) not just human sexuality.
What I do know is that Chick-fil-A/WinShape does give a lot of their money to the homeless, the hungry and the orphans or as we call them in the United States, foster children. They have 12 Foster families. Twelve sets of parents who take in the abandoned children in our country and give them a loving home. Each family has roughly 10-12 kids and they are typically older children around the age of 10-12 ( the least desirable ages for adoption). The money we make from our restaurant goes to support these families 100%. Truett has personally adopted several of these children himself just to get them out of the system. Neither parent works, they are solely there to parent, provide a stable home and love these children as their own. These kids grow up and can always return to their home. Hundreds of lost children who have bounced around in the foster care system are having their lives impacted and now growing up to be productive members of society. I have never been a part of a company as generous as Chick-fil-A.
I see their argument and belief that we give to organizations that promote hate but I just don't agree these organizations promote "hate." Not patronizing our restaurant because of this is absolutely their right. As a former Marine Corps wife who sent my husband to Iraq 3 times prior to owning a Chick-fil-A, any government official making claims that completely violates our freedom of speech whether it is hate or not makes my skin crawl! And we should be outraged! My husband and many others were willing to lose their life for that liberty and there are thousands who did!
What I do know is that Chick-fil-A/WinShape does give a lot of their money to the homeless, the hungry and the orphans or as we call them in the United States, foster children. They have 12 Foster families. Twelve sets of parents who take in the abandoned children in our country and give them a loving home. Each family has roughly 10-12 kids and they are typically older children around the age of 10-12 ( the least desirable ages for adoption). The money we make from our restaurant goes to support these families 100%. Truett has personally adopted several of these children himself just to get them out of the system. Neither parent works, they are solely there to parent, provide a stable home and love these children as their own. These kids grow up and can always return to their home. Hundreds of lost children who have bounced around in the foster care system are having their lives impacted and now growing up to be productive members of society. I have never been a part of a company as generous as Chick-fil-A.
I see their argument and belief that we give to organizations that promote hate but I just don't agree these organizations promote "hate." Not patronizing our restaurant because of this is absolutely their right. As a former Marine Corps wife who sent my husband to Iraq 3 times prior to owning a Chick-fil-A, any government official making claims that completely violates our freedom of speech whether it is hate or not makes my skin crawl! And we should be outraged! My husband and many others were willing to lose their life for that liberty and there are thousands who did!
↳
Jess - July 28th, 2012 at 10:12 AM
KB, Thank you. That was very well written. I am also a wife of a CFA Operator in Virginia and it has broken my heart to feel in the middle of all this.
↳
angela - July 28th, 2012 at 7:59 PM
my sentiments exactly, beth. i couldn't care less what the head of chick-fil-a believes.
i care that my money is being funneled to causes i don't believe in.
i care that he slapped his personal opinion on his entire company, and i bet there are gays that work for chick-fil-a! i bet there are people who work for chick-fil-a who support gay rights!
way to alienate your workforce and your consumer base all in one go.
personal opinions are just that. they should stay personal.
i care that my money is being funneled to causes i don't believe in.
i care that he slapped his personal opinion on his entire company, and i bet there are gays that work for chick-fil-a! i bet there are people who work for chick-fil-a who support gay rights!
way to alienate your workforce and your consumer base all in one go.
personal opinions are just that. they should stay personal.
↳
anon - July 28th, 2012 at 11:00 PM
Found this girl's blog, a lesbian conservative who gives her side. Her whole blog is really interesting especially talking about how closeted she once felt she had to be as a conservative among her lesbian peers.
I have attached the link to her blog as well as copy and pasted her post.
http://lesbianconservative.com/2012/07/12/gay-marriage-the-love-that-wont-shut-f-up/
Gay Marriage: The Love That Won’t Shut the F-UP
Posted on July 12, 2012
My current sentiments concerning the entire topic of gay marriage can be succinctly summed up in the following quote:
Once upon a time they called homosexuality “the love that dare not speak its name.†Now it’s become the love that won’t shut the f___ up. Felix, Taki Magazine
Oh, how very true. And the farcical fawning of the me–too media, America’s cultural bootlickers extraordinaire, helping to rub the gay marriage marathon into America’s tired and overexposed orbs 24/7—it’s Indoctrination TV at its very best.
And the moronic aping of heterosexual marriage mores….Frankly, the whole clamoring gay marriage hate campaign hell-bent on mimicking the straight matrimonial meme comically resembles a Monty Python parody. I mean, come on—husband/husband and wife/wife?? My gosh, if the only way you can find legitimacy for your mating match is to base your commitment on a rigid heterosexual model never meant to encompass homosexual unions, what the heck does that really say about the pretext and pretensions of your relationship?
A gay community that has been quite successful at inventing, developing, and organizing queer consciousness separate and apart from heterosexual culture now wants to pretend it’s so so straight. Well, I’ve seen some drag shows in my time, but this one really takes the fake.
I have attached the link to her blog as well as copy and pasted her post.
http://lesbianconservative.com/2012/07/12/gay-marriage-the-love-that-wont-shut-f-up/
Gay Marriage: The Love That Won’t Shut the F-UP
Posted on July 12, 2012
My current sentiments concerning the entire topic of gay marriage can be succinctly summed up in the following quote:
Once upon a time they called homosexuality “the love that dare not speak its name.†Now it’s become the love that won’t shut the f___ up. Felix, Taki Magazine
Oh, how very true. And the farcical fawning of the me–too media, America’s cultural bootlickers extraordinaire, helping to rub the gay marriage marathon into America’s tired and overexposed orbs 24/7—it’s Indoctrination TV at its very best.
And the moronic aping of heterosexual marriage mores….Frankly, the whole clamoring gay marriage hate campaign hell-bent on mimicking the straight matrimonial meme comically resembles a Monty Python parody. I mean, come on—husband/husband and wife/wife?? My gosh, if the only way you can find legitimacy for your mating match is to base your commitment on a rigid heterosexual model never meant to encompass homosexual unions, what the heck does that really say about the pretext and pretensions of your relationship?
A gay community that has been quite successful at inventing, developing, and organizing queer consciousness separate and apart from heterosexual culture now wants to pretend it’s so so straight. Well, I’ve seen some drag shows in my time, but this one really takes the fake.
↳
Jamie - August 1st, 2012 at 7:59 AM
Thank you for being the voice of reason.
↳
Becky - August 2nd, 2012 at 11:16 AM
You are absolutely correct Beth. The writer of the article does not grasp any of what you state. Not a bad article and based on a nifty idea but the understanding of the whole situation just isn't there.
d.l. mayfield - July 27th, 2012 at 3:44 PM
oregon doesn't even have a chick-fil-a. we feel so out of the loop! srsly though, if everybody wanna be hatin' on sin, i think it should start on the sin in our own hearts. what a good reminder. i am so far in the basement (especially politically) that now headlines make me giggle. once you step outside the storm, the clearheadness comes quickly. jesus has moved on, ya'll. let's go find him
↳
Heather - July 27th, 2012 at 9:14 PM
Once you step outside the storm...what do you mean? Specifically for you as a Christian in regards to politics?
**I have been wanting some direction here.
**I have been wanting some direction here.
Rachel - July 27th, 2012 at 3:46 PM
thank you and thank you! This post served up goosebumps, claps and a sigh of relief from me. I'll meet you in the basement. Did you get some honey roasted bbq sauce for the nuggets? If not, I'll pick it up and ungodly amounts of sweet tea.
Jennifer - July 27th, 2012 at 3:46 PM
Love Jesus... Love Others... That is what it is all about! I'm in the basement too, have been since this whole thing started.
Doris Swift - July 27th, 2012 at 3:48 PM
Right on Jen Hatmaker!!! As our pastor said last Sunday "categorizing people de-humanizes them" making it easier to condemn; We condemn when we fail to see we aren't meant to sit in the Judges seat.."Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven...."Luke 6:37
We don't have "basements" in Florida, but I'm right down there with you in the basement! Leave the judgement to the Lord, so yes, we can be about His business of loving and serving others...I'd like the Chick-Fil-A #1 meal with a coke please :) P.S. Is it very weird that now when I purchase gas, the amount always has to end in 7? Loved your "7" mutiny against excess!
We don't have "basements" in Florida, but I'm right down there with you in the basement! Leave the judgement to the Lord, so yes, we can be about His business of loving and serving others...I'd like the Chick-Fil-A #1 meal with a coke please :) P.S. Is it very weird that now when I purchase gas, the amount always has to end in 7? Loved your "7" mutiny against excess!
Karen Fisher - July 27th, 2012 at 3:52 PM
Go Jen. :) wish we could do another event together!
Shelly Elston - July 27th, 2012 at 3:53 PM
LOVED every. single. word. Shared it. You rock!
Michelle - July 27th, 2012 at 3:55 PM
Jen, I agree with everything you said. Jesus' way of approaching sin is so much different than the way we do it. I struggle with this. However, another area I struggle is not standing up for things that are biblically right. Our country is suffering for it. Slowly and slyly Satan is making the Christian in America the outlaw, the criminal because we beleive what God's word says is true,or what the world deems as acceptable. How do we maintain a balance? I don't know, but we are letting our values go out the window. Yes, Cathey has a right to say and feel the way he wants to. But somehow, it is the Christian sector who is thought of as hating because our belief is based on what God's word says. I struggle with the balance. You are right, we will bring no one to know the love of Crhist through messages of hate. But we must stand up for God's truth and what He says. He is Holy and must be treated as such. Doesn't really matter what we think, or how we feel, ... it matters what He says. Stand up for righteousness. Not bashing on either side. What would Jesus do? I don't know but I wish I did. I struggle every day to be more like Him so I can show Him to others. I am not worried about Chick-Fil-A not making it because some people are protesting them. I beleive Cathey is where he is today because he commits everything to following a Godly principle of dealing with his business and his employees. So to all those who are tweeting, facebooking, and whatever else, Live your life as an example. Let people know where you stand on morality and righteousness not because of what you say but because of how you live. God is still in control.
↳
Valerie - July 27th, 2012 at 5:21 PM
Well said, Michelle!
↳
CArrie - July 27th, 2012 at 8:07 PM
Well said Michelle! I feel christians have been in the basement for too long.
↳
Kate Wilson - July 27th, 2012 at 8:51 PM
Michelle, I share the same struggle you do. I want to stand up for God's Word, because I believe with all my being that it is true, and the way Christians should live. But I also don't want to be judgmental toward others, because I can't be responsible for their spiritual journeys. I think in many ways, modern Christians are diluted. I oftentimes see the modern Christians twist God's Word or try to push off parts of the Bible as not being serious or important--blowing parts of the scripture off because they don't feel it fits into "today" or that it is too "outdated." Sad, because God's Word is timeless, and it is true forever. I believe in Biblical principles. I think where I try to find balance is knowing that not everyone knows the Lord--there are many lost souls. And on the day of judgement, those who don't know the Lord won't be held to the same accountability as those who do know Him. We are expected to be the lights in this dark world, but those who don't know Christ aren't called to be lights as we are. Not that it makes their sins okay, but it just means that we need to focus on our own righteous living and make sure our hearts are right with God, while still praying for them. I believe in standing up for what is right--and I personally can't support gay marriage because I believe it's not Biblically right. However, I still treat gay people like I do straight people because we are all sinners. We all have equal sin, and I believe my sins are just as bad as theirs. I've had 2 gay friends in my life who I care very much about, and although they know I don't agree with their lifestyles, they also know I love them. And I think that's the best thing we can do. Just love them. They need God's love as much as we do, and it's not betraying our faith to treat them like the human beings they are. We can lead by example (which it sounds like you're doing).
Well, I think I went off on a bit of a tangent here, but my whole point is that I share the same view that you've expressed, and you are not alone in that challenge. :)
Well, I think I went off on a bit of a tangent here, but my whole point is that I share the same view that you've expressed, and you are not alone in that challenge. :)
↳
Laurie - July 27th, 2012 at 10:41 PM
Thank you, you put into words exactly how I feel.
↳
Sarah - July 28th, 2012 at 5:29 AM
I think "standing up for righteousness" is getting Christians off-message and causing a lot of problems. Consider the parable of the woman caught in adultery (John7:53). Jesus stood up for righteousness, and justice, all at the same time, while reminding us that no one is without sin. The bystanders in that story (that would be you and me) didn't participate in Jesus' conclusion; they obeyed it.We are not called to pass judgment, we're called to obey it. It's laughable to suggest that Christians in America are "outlaws" or "criminals" - Christianity is preferred here, over other religions or over no religion, and the only time we are barred from religious expression is when we are trying to put it where it doesn't belong, or trying to force it on others. If someone is gay, that is between him/her and God.
Tamika - July 27th, 2012 at 3:55 PM
Wow!! Basement dweller. I was moved deeply.
Julie - July 27th, 2012 at 3:55 PM
Keeping it coming, sister - MANY of us are listening and agreeing and appreciating that you can put into words what is in our hearts! Going to the basement in East Peoria!
Sheila - July 27th, 2012 at 3:56 PM
As a gay Christian (yes we exist...) thank you. I feel both sides of the fence on a regular basis. I have a life story that neither the right, nor the left understands, gets, or would honestly support and spend my days living in the great divide. It ain't particularly fun so I am more. than. happy. to get in the basement with you....
↳
Becca - July 28th, 2012 at 9:04 AM
I'm right there with you Sheila. I too am ever so uncomfortably wedged in the gay-christian discussion. Because I have felt what "hate, misunderstanding, judgement and condemnation" feels like from my well-meaning Christian brother and sisters...I have concluded that anytime our focus as humans moves to ISSUES instead of loving and respecting PEOPLE, we are missing the mark.
No matter what the issue, I don't imagine that Jesus would have been a sign holder...and I am pretty sure he would be hanging with us in the basement where everyone is welcome!
No matter what the issue, I don't imagine that Jesus would have been a sign holder...and I am pretty sure he would be hanging with us in the basement where everyone is welcome!
bm - July 27th, 2012 at 3:58 PM
Bull. Regardless of your opinion, stand up for what you believe. Don't sit on the sidelines of life.
↳
Ellen - July 27th, 2012 at 6:22 PM
Agreed. The ostrich head in the sand stance kinda disappoints me, Jen.
↳
NYer - July 27th, 2012 at 9:14 PM
What???? Both of you are delusional. I think everything in italics is a "stance".
↳
Jenny - July 27th, 2012 at 9:30 PM
This is how she is standing up for what she believes. You don't have to get involved in every argument, especially those you weren't invited to. If you see two groups fighting over something and you feel that both sides are just making matters worse, choosing to not join either side is fine.
If I see two guys punching each other in the street, I am not required to join one in beating the other. I am allowed to stand to the side and say, "Stop fighting! Come and join me over here for lunch." That is a stand.
If I see two guys punching each other in the street, I am not required to join one in beating the other. I am allowed to stand to the side and say, "Stop fighting! Come and join me over here for lunch." That is a stand.
Dave - July 27th, 2012 at 3:58 PM
Melissa - July 27th, 2012 at 3:59 PM
Thank you, Jen, for saying what has been in my heart for so very long. I too am tired of dodging the propaganda from both sides. What happened to that verse we throw around so much about taking the log out of our own eye first? We seem to have forgotten that one. We've forgotten not to judge. We've forgotten to invite sinners for dinner. We've forgotten the Jesus of scripture and have replaced the truth for the lie of political mumbo jumbo. I'm headed down to the basement!
Ruth - July 27th, 2012 at 3:59 PM
You said what I've been thinking. SO tired of all the crap. It's not what Jesus is all about. I'm joining you in the basement (oh and I have recurring tornado nightmares as well...). Thank you.
Timothy K Edwards - July 27th, 2012 at 4:00 PM
In my mind I have lived "in the basement" since graduating college.
Perfectly eloquently spoken
Perfectly eloquently spoken
Unlikely Christian - July 27th, 2012 at 4:01 PM
Bravo! So perfectly put. I just got done writing my post on the same subject matter and came to the same conclusion that LOVE is the answer. This stupidity needs to stop! Come on Christians!
Jeni - July 27th, 2012 at 4:01 PM
This is beautiful. Thank you for saying what I've been feeling, so eloquently.
MeganB - July 27th, 2012 at 4:03 PM
In other words, "For the love of all things soft and fluffy... can't we all just get along???" Please pass the nuggets! :)
Melane - July 27th, 2012 at 4:03 PM
Yes THIS! Everyday and twice on Sunday. This is how I feel too! Fingerpointing does nothing but hurt everyone. Thank you Jen, THANK YOU! And I'll take a sweet tea, half and half, with some chicken minis please!
Glenda Dellinger - July 27th, 2012 at 4:04 PM
Jen, I LOVE your heart....and I share these same thoughts, girlfriend! Thanks for just being YOU! U R still a ROCK STAR!
Audra - July 27th, 2012 at 4:04 PM
That was refreshing, and exactly what I have been thinking and feeling! Thank you for putting it into words and being REAL! Being a real, true everyday Christian is not wrapped up in a pretty package to go to church on Sunday! It's loving people everyday. It's not about hate or discrimination.
Tracy - July 27th, 2012 at 4:06 PM
I like my basement and I am very happy to live there with the rest of you-except I am vegan so umm I will pass on the nuggets-maybe a quinoa burger would be good!
Jennifer - July 27th, 2012 at 4:07 PM
Having lived in Oklahoma my entire 32 years, I know about the tornadoes and basements. I am right there with you. I will stay in the basement as this storm passes.
LOVE THIS: "We hate that 25,000 people will die today of hunger and we’re arguing gay marriage again."
AND THIS: "We love people. Because Jesus does. All of them."
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
LOVE THIS: "We hate that 25,000 people will die today of hunger and we’re arguing gay marriage again."
AND THIS: "We love people. Because Jesus does. All of them."
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
M Lee - July 27th, 2012 at 4:07 PM
I do like how you put all this together and I agree with most of what you said--but I don't think people should feel condemned for wanting to stand up for the protection of marriage and use media to do it. After all aren't you using media (via your blog) to also post your opinion on the issue? Just because someone isn't FOR gay marriage doesn't mean they are spewing hate. It kind of sounds like you are saying its wrong for people wanting to stand up for and defend specific issues they are passionate about. I am one of those Christian that is against gay marriage, and for the protection of how marriage is defined now but I am not going to engage in the hate speech, or protest, or whatever. I will support businesses (all businesses) who uphold biblical values including marriage, pro-life, etc. Yes there are poor people, yes there are orphans, yes there is injustice and those issues are important to God and certainly important to me. But so is marriage, and the decline of it in our country. In fact if you study history, the fall and destruction of many empires occurs when sexual immorality becomes rampant. I don't think its right for you to make it seem as if this issue is any less important to God than say poverty, or injustice. Much of the poverty today in the US has very much to do with the decline of marriage.
Scripture teaches us to love the sinner, hate the sin. Those living the Homosexual lifestyle with no intention of wanting to be set free of it, are not living that way because God made them gay. As believers we can love them, show grace, love and mercy to them, not condemn them any more than we would condemn any of our own sin. But we CANNOT say that being GAY is OK with God and sorry but it kind of sounds like you are saying that.
Scripture teaches us to love the sinner, hate the sin. Those living the Homosexual lifestyle with no intention of wanting to be set free of it, are not living that way because God made them gay. As believers we can love them, show grace, love and mercy to them, not condemn them any more than we would condemn any of our own sin. But we CANNOT say that being GAY is OK with God and sorry but it kind of sounds like you are saying that.
↳
Amber - July 27th, 2012 at 6:05 PM
Well said, M Lee.
↳
Deborah - July 27th, 2012 at 6:22 PM
M. Lee, I agree; so much that I have most recently read continues to 'cherry pick' issues and pit one against the other, as if God doesn't speak clearly towards ALL issues with the whole of the BIble. Yes, individual callings and gifts will tend us towards ministering in one particular area or another...but it does not invalidate what the Bible says regarding the all of life and the issues with which we are not as fully involved.
↳
Mary - July 27th, 2012 at 6:58 PM
Could not agree more with your comment, M. Lee.
↳
Tricia - July 27th, 2012 at 7:32 PM
I like your post, MLee, ditto.
↳
em - July 27th, 2012 at 9:39 PM
as a Christian - I don't agree with you.. i think the hyper-focus on the sins of one group does nothing to further the gospel. NOTHING.. instead of fighting to protect something, why not pray to transform? it's like we're trying to clean fish before we ever catch them, and it's obvious it's not working. i say this with respect, but we will be held accountable for the constant noise in regards to this. your fight to protect marriage is throwing gas into a flame.. why can't people see that the louder Christian's get, the louder it all gets. Why can't people see that the Christian's use of social media, and the white noise that's been escalating hasn't worked. and most importantly, why can't Christian's see that it's not our place to define someone else by their sin. I do not wear a scarlet letter - why do they have to? How are we all reading the same word? The word that points out clearly the damaging effects of sexual sins (all of them. including adultery, affairs, etc).. that same Word recaps our savior standing at a well with a woman who had slept around with the entire town. why can't Christians take a cue from Jesus's response? Or see the broken souls and hearts behind our social fights?? i ask these things sincerely. i love the Lord, i am a believer.. i am not a psudeo-christian because i have a different view here.. i am seriously asking why people thinks this is a fight worth fighting no matter the cost?? the cost here is so great, and it shows a lack of trust in God's control. Marriage is HIS
↳
Kari Jo - July 27th, 2012 at 10:24 PM
How is it possible that I agree with the opposing views here?? But then I think therein lies the problem doesn't it? We Christians are not very good at (if we're being totally honest) at pairing grace AND truth together. We tend to major on the one, giving it a megaphone and the almost austrocizing the other. It's like as a believer, I must stand for truth b/c I just don't see Jesus hiding in the basement, but at the same time do I have to have a prop 8 sign in my lawn SHOUTING to the world?! Randy Alcorn said it this way and I agree "We show people Jesus only when we show them grace and truth. Anything less than both is neither." and oh, how I fail dismally at this...daily!! And I believe it is a struggle that most of us have as look around especially as social media gets more and more out of hand on both sides. This is the struggle that is being fought really. Really, it's not about marriage...it's not about one certain sin, it's about a worldview and repentance...and just how these two words grace and truth fit perfectly together. And those of us who are weary and heavy laden...we, who are all but DONE with the rehederic would do well to come to Jesus in his Word...and if you've got a Bible in that basement of yours...I'm sure you'll find him. ;0)
↳
Kate Wilson - July 28th, 2012 at 11:33 AM
Well worded, Kari Jo! You are so right! I see many of my well-intending Christian family and friends on both sides of the issues screaming so loud about their opinions, no one actually hears their message. And I'm the worst of all about pairing grace and truth--I fail constantly. I'm so glad we have a Lord and Savior who is stronger than we, and that His yoke is easy and His burden is light! He will guide us to show grace and truth, which I am pretty much incapable of doing alone.
Someone named Brian posted a good point above: Christ didn't only say not to judge--he said not to judge others by standards other than what we are judged. Matthew 7:1-5 tells us not to be hypocrites, judging others and not seeing our own sins. I believe it means we should stand up for truth, but not spend our time pointing fingers at everyone else when we've got sins of our own. I tend not to comment on the lifestyle of homosexual people because I lived with my husband for 4 years and had sex with him before we were married. I knew I was sinning while I was doing it. But I can't look at the speck in other people's eyes when I have a plank in my own. So while I don't support gay marriage, I also don't use a megaphone to announce it. I think doing so turns others away from Christ, rather than toward him.
Oh, I'm probably off topic again. But I've enjoyed reading thread posts from people with all their different views. Good conversation. :)
Someone named Brian posted a good point above: Christ didn't only say not to judge--he said not to judge others by standards other than what we are judged. Matthew 7:1-5 tells us not to be hypocrites, judging others and not seeing our own sins. I believe it means we should stand up for truth, but not spend our time pointing fingers at everyone else when we've got sins of our own. I tend not to comment on the lifestyle of homosexual people because I lived with my husband for 4 years and had sex with him before we were married. I knew I was sinning while I was doing it. But I can't look at the speck in other people's eyes when I have a plank in my own. So while I don't support gay marriage, I also don't use a megaphone to announce it. I think doing so turns others away from Christ, rather than toward him.
Oh, I'm probably off topic again. But I've enjoyed reading thread posts from people with all their different views. Good conversation. :)
↳
Elizabeth - July 31st, 2012 at 9:15 AM
"It's like we're trying to clean fish before we ever catch them, and it's obvious it's not working. "
Best. Analogy. Ever.
Best. Analogy. Ever.
↳
Ellen - July 27th, 2012 at 9:44 PM
I hear your passion for truth and I commend it. But wouldn't you say that it's either about Jesus or it isn't? And we are showing HIM to the world or we aren't? Is my zeal for "standing up" for biblical marriage (or any other important issue) helping people see Him? Perhaps we should be willing to consider - just consider - that what we are doing isn't working. Or is it?
Maybe the place to begin is to back up and look at exactly what Jesus really calls us to do in relation to others, both inside and outside the household of faith. Are we willing to follow where Scripture leads us or not? Do we need to re-think our shrill tactics? The weapons I read about in Scripture are spiritual and our Enemy is not flesh and blood. Are "liberals" and "gays" our enemies? The mayor of Chicago or wherever? Really? That doesn't mean we can't vote our conscience or care about moral issues. It certainly doesn't mean that the things you say about marriage are not true. But maybe people are rejecting Jesus - who is the real answer to the human dilemma - because we, as His people, are confused about who our Enemy is. If people found Jesus and submitted to Him and His Word, wouldn't that make a difference? (So are we helping or hurting?) Of course, biblical marriage matters to God - for Christians, it's intended to be a picture of Christ and the Church. But I don't see a call in the Bible to defend it or to attack those who disagree, regardless of whether they attack us. And Scripture absolutely does talk a LOT about caring for the poor and the oppressed. Doesn't it say that without love, nothing we do matters? Even if we give our bodies to be burned? What about the fruit of the Spirit?
So, my call to all of us as believers is to dig in and figure out what Scripture really calls us to do and to do whatever that is, even if it challenges my cherished notions or yours. "Standing up" hasn't proven to be a winsome demonstration of the gospel, at least not the way we've been doing it. How's that working for us? Or maybe we'd just rather be right. Is there a prize for that?
Maybe the place to begin is to back up and look at exactly what Jesus really calls us to do in relation to others, both inside and outside the household of faith. Are we willing to follow where Scripture leads us or not? Do we need to re-think our shrill tactics? The weapons I read about in Scripture are spiritual and our Enemy is not flesh and blood. Are "liberals" and "gays" our enemies? The mayor of Chicago or wherever? Really? That doesn't mean we can't vote our conscience or care about moral issues. It certainly doesn't mean that the things you say about marriage are not true. But maybe people are rejecting Jesus - who is the real answer to the human dilemma - because we, as His people, are confused about who our Enemy is. If people found Jesus and submitted to Him and His Word, wouldn't that make a difference? (So are we helping or hurting?) Of course, biblical marriage matters to God - for Christians, it's intended to be a picture of Christ and the Church. But I don't see a call in the Bible to defend it or to attack those who disagree, regardless of whether they attack us. And Scripture absolutely does talk a LOT about caring for the poor and the oppressed. Doesn't it say that without love, nothing we do matters? Even if we give our bodies to be burned? What about the fruit of the Spirit?
So, my call to all of us as believers is to dig in and figure out what Scripture really calls us to do and to do whatever that is, even if it challenges my cherished notions or yours. "Standing up" hasn't proven to be a winsome demonstration of the gospel, at least not the way we've been doing it. How's that working for us? Or maybe we'd just rather be right. Is there a prize for that?
Ava - July 27th, 2012 at 4:08 PM
I'm in the basement!
Mari - July 27th, 2012 at 4:10 PM
Amen, Amen, Amen. Very well said. I will gladly join you in the basement.
Jenny - July 27th, 2012 at 4:11 PM
Love.Love Love this. I'm a basement dweller with you!!
Marilyn - July 27th, 2012 at 4:14 PM
So well stated...Thank YOU!
Sarah - July 27th, 2012 at 4:15 PM
Great reminder to stay focused on Jesus - I want His heart to be my heart - so easy to get distracted!! If Jesus judged (actually condemned) my sin the way I tend to do others, I'd be eternally lost . . . so thankful for His love, patience and mercy!!
Fran - July 27th, 2012 at 4:16 PM
I am joining you in the basement- this says what I have been feeling the past few days!!! THANK YOU!
Kurt - July 27th, 2012 at 4:17 PM
Right on the mark. We're going to need a bigger basement.
Christian - July 27th, 2012 at 4:18 PM
Totally agree with this post. One suggestion though: the man who made the comments is President and COO Dan Cathy. Truett is Chairman and CEO.
↳
Jen Hatmaker - July 27th, 2012 at 4:41 PM
DARN IT! You are so right. Shoot. Hate an egregious misquote. Thanks for the heads up.
↳
Terry - August 2nd, 2012 at 4:13 PM
Yes, thank you for clarifying that - I noticed the error straight away and was about to post a reply stating as such.
Paul A. - July 27th, 2012 at 4:18 PM
I love this post a lot, but echoing what Beth said above me, the problem is that Cathy's comments have shone a new light on the millions of dollars Chick-fil-A spends supporting groups that believe the "gay agenda" is to gain greater access to children because "homosexuals" are more likely to be pedophiles. (That would be the Family Research Council, in case you're curious; they've been labeled a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center for statements such as those by their leaderships as recently as 2010.)
Let me say that again: Millions of dollars.
When you say how much you'd rather Christians would spend their time and resources on the things about which Jesus was passionate, I'm standing and cheering. When you turn around and say you'll be bringing your Chick-fil-A nuggets with you to the basement, I kind of scratch my head. I'm not sure what I think about boycotts, but I feel a whole lot more uncomfortable knowing that my money has been helping support groups that connect my uncle, among other people, with pedophilia simply because of how he was born.
The problem isn't that some rich old white guy from the South opposes gay rights. What else is new? The problem is that he backs up his beliefs by giving through his company – I'll say it one more time – *millions of dollars* to groups that spread the hate you rightly and eloquently oppose.
At what point should we get out of the basement and lead the fight for Christians to start spending their millions on causes for which Jesus lived and died? Does staying in our basement do much to help the hurting LGBT men and women who have been and continue to be wounded to the point of suicide by the organizations Chick-fil-A supports with our money?
Let me reiterate: I really love your post and the spirit behind it. But I fear heading to the basement may do nothing more than exacerbate the very conditions from which you are trying to escape.
Let me say that again: Millions of dollars.
When you say how much you'd rather Christians would spend their time and resources on the things about which Jesus was passionate, I'm standing and cheering. When you turn around and say you'll be bringing your Chick-fil-A nuggets with you to the basement, I kind of scratch my head. I'm not sure what I think about boycotts, but I feel a whole lot more uncomfortable knowing that my money has been helping support groups that connect my uncle, among other people, with pedophilia simply because of how he was born.
The problem isn't that some rich old white guy from the South opposes gay rights. What else is new? The problem is that he backs up his beliefs by giving through his company – I'll say it one more time – *millions of dollars* to groups that spread the hate you rightly and eloquently oppose.
At what point should we get out of the basement and lead the fight for Christians to start spending their millions on causes for which Jesus lived and died? Does staying in our basement do much to help the hurting LGBT men and women who have been and continue to be wounded to the point of suicide by the organizations Chick-fil-A supports with our money?
Let me reiterate: I really love your post and the spirit behind it. But I fear heading to the basement may do nothing more than exacerbate the very conditions from which you are trying to escape.
↳
Jen Hatmaker - July 27th, 2012 at 4:40 PM
Thank you for this thoughtful response, Paul. I would love to invite you down to the basement where we can continue this very civil, reasonable, respectful dialogue! (As always, these things are more nuanced then press releases or blogs make them out to be. It is the aggressive, hostile combativeness I take such issue with on both sides, but you, sir, have done a lovely job of showing how to add to the conversation respectfully and thoughtfully. Teach a seminar.)
↳
Trish - July 27th, 2012 at 5:42 PM
Paul, it's my understanding that while CFA has donated a great deal to several organizations opposing gay marriage, that the donation to the FRC (the ones connecting gay people with pedophiles) was a one time, $1,000 donation.
I readily admit I could be wrong. But that's my understanding.
This is a link to where I got that information (from a blogger supporting the boycott): http://alise-write.com/
I readily admit I could be wrong. But that's my understanding.
This is a link to where I got that information (from a blogger supporting the boycott): http://alise-write.com/
↳
Paul A. - July 27th, 2012 at 5:54 PM
I'll have to check that out. That would help alleviate a lot of my concerns. Thanks, Trish.
Kelley - July 27th, 2012 at 4:21 PM
Because......"they will know us by our love". Amen.
sarah - July 27th, 2012 at 4:22 PM
Thank GOD you went there. This is exactly what I've had in my heart for months, but haven't been able to find a way to verbalize coherently. I am SO OVER all of the bashing on every side. THE HORSE IS DEAD, PUT THE STICK DOWN. We do not need to agree in order to get along and all love each other. I'm headed to the basement. With cookies.
Denise - July 27th, 2012 at 4:26 PM
Girl, just when you had a big fat tear about to fall down my cheek, you mentioned nuggets. And boy howdy, did it make me laugh out loud!! (As as a recovering legalist, you know that laughing is almost next to clapping as a mortal sin.) And let me tell you, there are "basement" meetings every week near most everywhere, called Celebrate Recovery. Some of my best friends in world I met there and have taught me SO much about their struggles with same-sex attraction. At the same time, I open up and share my struggles and weaknesses and they love me right back. And we seek Jesus, text each other when we're having a bad day and about to do something dumb (like drown our sorrows in a pint of Haagen Daas or are about to barf it up!). GRACE. MERCY. LOVE. FRIENDSHIP. LAUGHTER. SUPPORT. These are the hallmarks of a love that changes everything.
Leslie - July 27th, 2012 at 4:26 PM
You managed to say everyting I've felt but didn't know how to put into word! I'm joining you in the basement.
Amanda MacLean - July 27th, 2012 at 4:28 PM
Loved this, very well said. Thanks for writing.
Heidi - July 27th, 2012 at 4:29 PM
Yes yes yes yes yes. .
Steve - July 27th, 2012 at 4:30 PM
There are still many great christians who believe in the traditional family, but they don't HATE like everyone says they do. Just because they don't support it or believe in it, doesn't mean they hate them. Just sayin'...
julie - July 27th, 2012 at 4:31 PM
Awesome! And I'm hungry!
Melissa - July 27th, 2012 at 4:35 PM
I unfortunately believe that hiding in the basement is a bit like an ostrich with it's head in the sand and consequently is why our country is where it is today. As Christians, we aren't called to condemn, but to spread the Truth and while I know God can use us for His glory in any situation, I don't believe we're going to find many of those hiding in the basement. I don't believe you are hiding, as you obviously have a heart and passion of servanthood that I admire to no end. I'm not saying we go around bashing and persecuting, but that we spread the Truth as it is written. Unfortunately, when we are told we are doing something wrong in our lives (i.e. sin), it never makes you feel good. Christianity isn't always about feeling good. It is about personal conviction and using that conviction to try to live a life pleasing to Christ. I believe His blood covers all sins, even homosexuality, but only if you ask it to cover it and repent. His death wasn't meant to allow us to accept so that we could continue to live a life of sin with no consequence. I think many times, people forget that homosexuality is only one of a multitude of sins among us, and we are ALL sinners. The difference comes when you are trying to live a life according to the Word and seeking to fulfill His purpose for you on this planet. So, that said, I'm not going to the basement on this matter or any other that I believe isn't lined up with my Christian beliefs. I don't feel that my Christian beliefs call me to take a neutral stance on worldly topics. That said, Jen, I do appreciate the attitude of loving everyone, because I absolutely believe that Christ loved everyone. But He also spoke the truth.
↳
Rory - July 27th, 2012 at 4:45 PM
This is really well said, Melissa.
↳
Amber - July 27th, 2012 at 6:23 PM
Amen. Exactly what you said, Melissa!
↳
Deborah - July 27th, 2012 at 6:26 PM
Indeed. Thank you for writing this.
↳
Susan - July 27th, 2012 at 10:44 PM
Melissa,
Ask a young person who knows to the core of their being that they are gay, and then look them in the eye and tell him/her it's a sin. Their sexuality is who they ARE, just as yours is. To say that their homosexuality is a choice and a sin, is well, silly. You did not choose your orientation, nor do gay people. People in the days of yore did not understand the workings of the brain, of genetics, etc. and so Scripture reflects a very narrow awareness (Christians used to think the Bible taught segregation as well.) Anyway, I've learned a lot from listening to gay teens. They need compassion and acceptance - not judgment. Thanks for reading.
Ask a young person who knows to the core of their being that they are gay, and then look them in the eye and tell him/her it's a sin. Their sexuality is who they ARE, just as yours is. To say that their homosexuality is a choice and a sin, is well, silly. You did not choose your orientation, nor do gay people. People in the days of yore did not understand the workings of the brain, of genetics, etc. and so Scripture reflects a very narrow awareness (Christians used to think the Bible taught segregation as well.) Anyway, I've learned a lot from listening to gay teens. They need compassion and acceptance - not judgment. Thanks for reading.
↳
emily - July 28th, 2012 at 4:43 PM
Susan, I do agree with you that for many, it's not just a choice to be gay.. I don't know what it originates from, and really no one does. I do know that I believe God's word to be true, and His word places far more emphasis on my reaponse to others, and my obedience to deny myself and walk with Christ, than anything else.. Despite the issues at hand, the Bible clearly states our identiy is in Christ, and as believers we are covered
Caryn Ruff - July 27th, 2012 at 4:38 PM
Jen Hatmaker is my HERO! I just posted this very thing on my facebook page last night. It wasn't this grand, though. I only wish I had the words to express it the way you did! I went to bed praying that I would not be eaten alive on Facebook while I slept. It was to my surprise that there are MANY others that agree! Thank you Jen for writing this! I'm sharing on my Facebook page!
↳
Jennie@gotmyreservations - July 28th, 2012 at 9:28 AM
I also wrote a similar post yesterday, but I wasn't nearly as eloquent as this Jen.
lisa - July 27th, 2012 at 4:39 PM
Amen. Amen. Amen.
I am stick and tired of living as a Christian, having to take LOTS of time UNDOING and editing what fellow "Christians" have messed up forcing themselves on "unbelievers".
Is there room on the couch still? I am joining you in the basement. :)
I am stick and tired of living as a Christian, having to take LOTS of time UNDOING and editing what fellow "Christians" have messed up forcing themselves on "unbelievers".
Is there room on the couch still? I am joining you in the basement. :)
Sammy Toppes - July 27th, 2012 at 4:39 PM
So far I'm Lucky, only met False Alarm and heavy rain, but our season has only just begun here in statford,
Sam
Sam
Tommi - July 27th, 2012 at 4:39 PM
Yes, yes, yes, absolutly and LOVE!!
Deborah Lee - July 27th, 2012 at 4:40 PM
Beautifully said! Truly anointed! I am headed to the basement! Hope you have a large one!
Jeanne Stevens - July 27th, 2012 at 4:46 PM
Well Said. Honest
Kara Higgins - July 27th, 2012 at 4:47 PM
Amen, AMEN X like, 5million.
Jenn - July 27th, 2012 at 4:48 PM
Thank you for saying *exactly* what's in my heart.
Carol Brown - July 27th, 2012 at 4:49 PM
I may have missed something here. However, Mr. Cathy just made a statement about his Christian beliefs and why he believed as he does. He said there are gay people who work for his company and the company serves gay people. I don't think it is the true Christian people who are attacking anyone. It is the pro-gay communitee, politicians, and actors who are attacking Chic Fil A and Christians. If we do not stand up for what is right while showing love, we are hiding our heads in the sand (basement). Yes, we are supposed to love, but there is nothing wrong for standing up for what is right and telling others the Truth. God's Truth is love. Christians are losing rights by the second, it seems. This is an attack on Christians. We have been quite for way too long and that has gotten others who aren't Christian to be more vocal and brave. We are hated by those people. Sure there are Christians or people that call themselves Christians that do not act out of love at times. As a whole, I think Christians who are in a church that promotes real Biblical Truth, reads and studies the Bible, prays continually, and are Spirit filled ,do act in love when discussing gay issues or any other moral issue. However, we better start saying what is right and wrong Biblically or we will be in more trouble than we have ever dreamed. I once heard a preacher say that homosexuality was the final straw for a nation before it is destroyed. I am reminded of a song that tells us we need to get back to the basics of life and back to what the founding fathers of this nation intended in order to be blessed again. We didn't have this problem until probably the last 10 years. It was kept very quite before. As I said, the more we stay hidden and not promoting what is right and wrong, we be attacked and looked down on even more than we already are. Moral issues will get worse. By the way, the Apostle Paul never stayed in a basement. He was very vocal about right and wrong! We are still a Christian nation that was founded on Christian beliefs. We are not judging we are holding people accountable. Most importantly, we should be concerned about where people are going to spend eternity! We should be in prayer and get our lives right before we tell someone about sins others are committing. We have to keep in mind, also, the only one perfect person is Jesus When we do that, we are acting in love and standing on God's side and he will bless us for taking a bold stand.
↳
Brian - July 27th, 2012 at 11:37 PM
Carol - thank you, I agree. Your words made me imagine for a second what life would be like for someone who struggled with homosexuality if not one Christian ever spoke up. Yes, it's true, that some Christians are rough around the edges and should put more love in their presentation of truth. But what if every single Christian never again said anything about whether any particular sin (not just sexual sins) was wrong. Would that be a good thing for individuals within this society, in particular for a young person struggling in this area? We all here in this thread probably believe that promiscuity is not good for anyone. Every high school kid is bombarded with messages that promiscuity is just fine and fun. If it wasn't for the Church speaking truth, doing it's prophetic role, where would a high school kid today ever hear a message of purity?
Ashley - July 27th, 2012 at 4:49 PM
Thank you for this post...I swear your words are the ones that are in my heart trying to
be heard.
be heard.
Teresa - July 27th, 2012 at 4:51 PM
Thank you!
Linda G - July 27th, 2012 at 4:52 PM
I am so glad to have met you through the books you have written, Jen. Thank you for common sense and reflecting Jesus - I am over it all as well.
Johna - July 27th, 2012 at 4:57 PM
I couldn't have said it better myself. Meet you in the basement!
Chrystal - July 27th, 2012 at 4:59 PM
Can we have chick-fil-a milkshakes in the basement too? Because they are fabulous! Thanks for sharing your heart Jen. You said it beautifully.
Deana - July 27th, 2012 at 5:04 PM
Very well said! I'm headed to the basement now!
STephanie - July 27th, 2012 at 5:05 PM
Beautifully written and FULL of wisdom. Thank you.
Sundi Jo - July 27th, 2012 at 5:08 PM
Amen. Amen. Amen. and AMEN! Thank you for this. Joining you in the basement as well..
Tracie - July 27th, 2012 at 5:09 PM
Yes. And Amen.
Jessica - July 27th, 2012 at 5:10 PM
This gave me chills....thank you for speaking truth and so beautifully! I'm coming down:)
Monika - July 27th, 2012 at 5:12 PM
WELL done!! Seriously. This is the best thing I've heard on the whole CFA thing so far. Coming down in the basement with you!!
Dina @ 4 Lettre Words - July 27th, 2012 at 5:12 PM
LOVE everything about this post. Being a GA Peach, I can totally relate to the fear of storms...especially since I grew up riding out the tornado warnings in an "interior closet". (We didn't have a basement.) We have a basement now, tho, and I'm headed down there right this minute. Sure wish I had a Chick-fil-A sweet tea!
Tiffany - July 27th, 2012 at 5:14 PM
I, too, grew up hiding from tornados as a child. One of my favorite things about huddling in the storm cellar with my family was getting to watch Johnny Carson. We can't do that, but how 'bout Antoine instead... you know, for a little comic relief?
I appreciate your honesty as well as your frustration.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUmoTOujJ7Q
I appreciate your honesty as well as your frustration.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUmoTOujJ7Q
Stacy Gruhn - July 27th, 2012 at 5:16 PM
Thank you for saying so well what many of us are thinking. I will come to the basement and will be happy to bring the waffle fries. ;)
Fran W, - July 27th, 2012 at 5:17 PM
By the way, I usually order a side salad with my nuggets to make a chicken nugget salad doused with a smidgeon of Thousand Island dressing followed by apple juice. I, too, am a basement dweller!
Amanda - July 27th, 2012 at 5:18 PM
I am going to the basement, too! Thanks for putting into words what so many of us wanted to say!
Mary - July 27th, 2012 at 5:18 PM
Oh my word!!! You are sooooo speaking my language and I will gladly join you in the basement!!! Thank you for finally seeing a post that I can get behind :)!!!
Karla - July 27th, 2012 at 5:20 PM
God is love! Coming down. Some sweet tea with those nuggets please!
Melissa - July 27th, 2012 at 5:23 PM
Don’t team up with those who are unbelievers. How can righteousness be a partner with wickedness? How can light live with darkness? (2 Corinthians 6:14 NLT)
As Chritians we can love but we can not agree with gay marriage period!
As Chritians we can love but we can not agree with gay marriage period!
nate - July 27th, 2012 at 5:26 PM
Im not a believer or a christian but I have to say you said this about as well as it could be said. Thank you
Cindy - July 27th, 2012 at 5:27 PM
Thank you for so eloquently putting a "face" on evil.....and dragging it where it belongs....right out the door! This was so well put and, for me, exactly how I feel about so many "issues". All I know is: Love is the answer! Thank you so very much for the reaffirmation of that!
Brandi@String Cheese Runner - July 27th, 2012 at 5:27 PM
I love this. This is exactly how I feel.
Mindy - July 27th, 2012 at 5:29 PM
Several posters have made comments such as "we have to defend our rights" and "Christians are being attacked". Yep. Pretty much Jesus told us we would be persecuted. But here's the thing..we have all read the ending and it turns out ok.
Rory - July 27th, 2012 at 5:37 PM
Hey Jen, can I ask an honest question? (This is totally an aside from the Chick-fil-a storm.) I appreciate the heart of what you said, and I think I understand where you're coming from even though we've never met face to face. I have points where I may disagree but am not entirely sure because it is so easy to read a post and miss tone of voice and intent. I'm just kinda processing this out loud for a sec, and I'm on limited "nap time" minutes, if you know what I mean, so I apologize if this gets discombobulated. There were parts of your post that caused me to pause because I wanted to make sure I really understood you. Because I don't think you were necessarily saying everyone should "hide" or "not stand for truth", though admittedly at certain points I started to take it that way. But then I collected my thoughts, reeled them in and read on. I think you were more posing that we remember to love (the kind that God had for the world in giving His Son and loving us all while we were still sinners), avoid pointless arguments (the kind 2 timothy 2:23 warns about that only produce quarreling for the sake of quarreling--I'm not saying that standing for truth is pointless!) which are different than honest discussions which stand for truth...I could go on, but these were things I wrestled with and went back to Scripture on after reading your post. Here's where my question comes. I recognize that this whole basement thing is an analogy, and I think there's some good strength in the one you posed. Here's my question though. I hear your call, "Come as you are! Come ____________ (fill in the blank: all you weary, down trodden, misunderstood, marginalized) Come to the basement!" (My wording, not yours necessarily.) My thought is this: Once everyone is in the basement, that same love that called us there should be transforming us into the image of Christ, to do the works of Christ, to bring His glory into the earth and see His kingdom come. Transformation is pretty radical, not always comfortable, and means--in terms of Christ--that we literally die to ourselves, to our sin and become new creatures, no longer condemned, washed in His blood. So maybe this isn't as much of a question as it is a continuing thought..."Come as you are, but... don't stay as you are." Right? That's for all of us. That's the Gospel. That's basement love, and if we're gonna go there then I wanna get transformed. Is that ultimately where you're going with this? Because if so, then I get it. I applaud the basement call, not as a permanent resting place, but as a temporary spot where this work can be done...and then? Wow, when the storm passes and the basement folk are released the world is gonna change.
↳
Melissa Major - July 27th, 2012 at 6:28 PM
Awesome post!!!
↳
Jen Hatmaker - July 27th, 2012 at 6:28 PM
ABSOLUTELY!!! Transformation happens in the basement, not in the media wars. We've got to have safe places to find Jesus, wrestle with difficult issues together, and let truth change us from the inside out. I've never seen a screaming lunatic change anyone's mind or heart. But down in the basement is where I think the MAGIC HAPPENS!!
↳
Rory - July 28th, 2012 at 10:52 AM
Thanks Jen. That helps clarify!
↳
Dolly - August 1st, 2012 at 1:48 PM
Thank you for your blog. I have been struggling so much with these issues lately. The basement is really the underground church.
↳
RM - July 27th, 2012 at 6:32 PM
Rory, I felt the same way when I read Jen's blog...I to questioned where this was going...I felt hanging at first, thinking we love the person and their sin or we love them through to their transformation...also I was wondering do we hide while doing so...wasn't sure at first...I do like how you worded your comment Rory.
Thank you to everyone, for Jen's blog and all the comments (yes, I read them all). I am always interested in others outlook. God bless each of you as you reach out to others to love on them and to lead them to His Kingdom.
Thank you to everyone, for Jen's blog and all the comments (yes, I read them all). I am always interested in others outlook. God bless each of you as you reach out to others to love on them and to lead them to His Kingdom.
↳
Rebecca Brownrr - September 9th, 2012 at 9:36 PM
What a great explanation of Jen's comments. I love the basement Jen!
Marla Taviano - July 27th, 2012 at 5:37 PM
A-FREAKING-MEN.
↳
Laura - July 29th, 2012 at 5:10 AM
HA! That was going to be my exact response.
Katie - July 27th, 2012 at 5:38 PM
Amen. Thank you!
Kelly - July 27th, 2012 at 5:41 PM
Thanks for this. I appreciate your honesty, your truth, and I'd come hang with you in that basement of yours. Any day.
Sheila - July 27th, 2012 at 5:43 PM
Exactly! Thank you for writing this!!
Bonar Crump - July 27th, 2012 at 5:44 PM
Mrs. Hatmaker,
I like you. These words that you have painfully wrung out of your heart make my heart smile. Truth does that, you know.
I'm gonna go out and fight the tornado, but my chances of success are slim, indeed. Save a spot for me in the corner of the basement.
I like you. These words that you have painfully wrung out of your heart make my heart smile. Truth does that, you know.
I'm gonna go out and fight the tornado, but my chances of success are slim, indeed. Save a spot for me in the corner of the basement.
allthingsgoodandwise - July 27th, 2012 at 5:44 PM
Thank you for posting what has been swimming in my head lately. I agree and join you. Walking in His Steps and loving.
Lauren - July 27th, 2012 at 5:44 PM
I totally get your point, and agree with it to an extent. However, I feel that you are implying that because we have "bigger" problems in the world, that people need to set aside their gay marriage opinions as they are less important. This really only holds up for people in which it doesn't affect. But for someone who is gay, not being able to marry the person they love probably affects them tons more on a personal level than dying soldiers in an unjust war. So yeah, it IS a HUGE EFFING DEAL. And people are literally fighting for rights that you already enjoy freely. You're right, the legal standing of businesses should not be affected by one employee's personal beliefs - any backlash they suffer should be at the customer level where individuals have the right to boycott. But to just hide your head in the sand slash "go to the basement" when people of influence are publicly spreading messages of hate and inequality... well, that's far more annoying than any facebook status could ever be.
"We hate that 25,000 people will die today of hunger and we’re arguing gay marriage again."... So what exactly did you do today that was more significant than arguing gay marriage?
"We hate that 25,000 people will die today of hunger and we’re arguing gay marriage again."... So what exactly did you do today that was more significant than arguing gay marriage?
↳
Mindy - July 27th, 2012 at 6:06 PM
Hi Lauren:
If you had asked me this question:
"We hate that 25,000 people will die today of hunger and we’re arguing gay marriage again."... So what exactly did you do today that was more significant than arguing gay marriage?
I would have to hang my head in shame because other than donating some money to God's Little Angels last week for their building project in Haiti, I haven't done much. And, I need to address that issue.
Asking Jen that question, however, in my humble opinion is very unfair. She has heightened the plight of the orphan and the hungry, the homeless, the disenfranchised, more than any Christian speaker or author lately, I dare say. She has spread the word with books like 7. I know of many people whose lives and mindset have been totally changed by reading it. She sponsors children, and her public platform allowed all the children in a Haitian orphanage to be sponsored in mere minutes, to the point the organizations servers couldn't handle the traffic. I know I don't need to defend Jen, but let's not throw tomatoes at the people in the body who are doing everything they can to bring awareness. I don't agree with every single thing that Jen says, but that's ok, because when the rubber hits the road, she is doing a heck of a lot more than me, so best for me to not throw stones.
If you had asked me this question:
"We hate that 25,000 people will die today of hunger and we’re arguing gay marriage again."... So what exactly did you do today that was more significant than arguing gay marriage?
I would have to hang my head in shame because other than donating some money to God's Little Angels last week for their building project in Haiti, I haven't done much. And, I need to address that issue.
Asking Jen that question, however, in my humble opinion is very unfair. She has heightened the plight of the orphan and the hungry, the homeless, the disenfranchised, more than any Christian speaker or author lately, I dare say. She has spread the word with books like 7. I know of many people whose lives and mindset have been totally changed by reading it. She sponsors children, and her public platform allowed all the children in a Haitian orphanage to be sponsored in mere minutes, to the point the organizations servers couldn't handle the traffic. I know I don't need to defend Jen, but let's not throw tomatoes at the people in the body who are doing everything they can to bring awareness. I don't agree with every single thing that Jen says, but that's ok, because when the rubber hits the road, she is doing a heck of a lot more than me, so best for me to not throw stones.
↳
Jen Hatmaker - July 27th, 2012 at 6:26 PM
Lauren, you misunderstood me totally. When I say we're "arguing gay marriage again," I meant arguing against it pointlessly. Did you see the part where I invited you in as my friend? What I am "setting aside" is the screaming, yelling, name calling, and demonizing.
Tracie - July 27th, 2012 at 5:47 PM
As a person who is gay, I appreciate your sentiment, but I think you are wrong when you say that the CEO's actions aren't discriminatory. Anyone that gives millions of dollars to ensure that I am denied equal rights is discriminating and trying to enshrine that discrimination into law.
I also appreciate when public figures, including politicians and law makers, stand up to that injustice and speak out against it.
I also appreciate when public figures, including politicians and law makers, stand up to that injustice and speak out against it.
↳
Andrew White - July 27th, 2012 at 7:53 PM
Right on, Tracie.
The guy can say or think whatever he wants. Using money to buy lobbyists to monkey with people's civil rights is not cool.
The guy can say or think whatever he wants. Using money to buy lobbyists to monkey with people's civil rights is not cool.
theresa - July 27th, 2012 at 5:47 PM
standing ovation from my corner of the basement!
Melanie - July 27th, 2012 at 5:49 PM
Yes. Love you so much for every word of this. I'm in the basement with you.
Susanelizabeth - July 27th, 2012 at 5:53 PM
Jen, as I read this I went from shouting to crying, deep, long sobs. I was soooo hoping you'd comment on this and felt sure you would eventually. Girl, you nailed it. Remember when I posted on your FB wall some time back about me being the reformed, "Get them saved before they starved to death" kinda girl? Well, I am still that Pharisee who's enjoying her recovery. I had no idea how to say what was in my heart all this time about this mess. Thank you. Thank you.And remember, what I said about people holding your arms up during the battle? Well, I am still here. And I will GLADLY join you in the basement!
JAG - July 27th, 2012 at 5:53 PM
Finally! Thank you!
kelsey - July 27th, 2012 at 5:57 PM
I don't know you jen hatmaker, but i think we could be best friends. thank you.
Ruth - July 27th, 2012 at 5:58 PM
I think ignoring this current storm is wise. Everyone is upset. No good comes from engaging either side at this point.
To take a step back and look at gay people through Jesus' eyes requires us to love them. It requires us to stop using phrases like "liberal gay agenda." Most gay people and couples I know have one agenda: to live their lives loving exactly who they want. I have many gay friends who WISH they could find a church to attend with their partner. I've invited them to our church because our mainline protestant denomination church has been welcoming of gay couples, allowing a gay couple to be photographed together for our church directory. My friends can't believe this when I tell them THAT'S how much we love ALL PEOPLE. My gay friends want to know Jesus better. Yet, many churches/Christians ostracize them before they darken the church doorway. We brand them "sinners" because they're holding hands with a person of the same gender instead of reflecting quietly on the ways we ourselves have fallen short of showing God's love.
This Chik-fil-a thing doesn't warrant anyone's time. What does warrant our time are honest, genuine conversations within churches about how we can show God's love to people the church has branded with a scarlet "G." I refuse to go to the basement if it means skirting this important discussion with my fellow Christians.
To take a step back and look at gay people through Jesus' eyes requires us to love them. It requires us to stop using phrases like "liberal gay agenda." Most gay people and couples I know have one agenda: to live their lives loving exactly who they want. I have many gay friends who WISH they could find a church to attend with their partner. I've invited them to our church because our mainline protestant denomination church has been welcoming of gay couples, allowing a gay couple to be photographed together for our church directory. My friends can't believe this when I tell them THAT'S how much we love ALL PEOPLE. My gay friends want to know Jesus better. Yet, many churches/Christians ostracize them before they darken the church doorway. We brand them "sinners" because they're holding hands with a person of the same gender instead of reflecting quietly on the ways we ourselves have fallen short of showing God's love.
This Chik-fil-a thing doesn't warrant anyone's time. What does warrant our time are honest, genuine conversations within churches about how we can show God's love to people the church has branded with a scarlet "G." I refuse to go to the basement if it means skirting this important discussion with my fellow Christians.
Sheree - July 27th, 2012 at 6:01 PM
Love, love, love
Jen H. - July 27th, 2012 at 6:03 PM
Thank you so much for saying what I have been trying to spit out all week. I love our local Chick Fil A and what it does for families in our area. I will continue to eat delicious chicken, no matter what anyone's stance is. Aren't we all people? Didn't Jesus perish on the Cross for ALL our sins, no matter what? Get over it, people. I'm going to the basement with Jen.
K - July 27th, 2012 at 6:03 PM
We are a part of a war- it is the war between good and evil. You cannot fight a toranado and win, you will lose every time, so of course you would want to find refuge. But in the war of good and evil, we know that the good will win. So we cannot hide. We need to stand up for our beliefs (in a loving Christ-like way). I appreciate this post and your Christ-like attitude of loving others, but we very much need to be out there raging this war. There will be refuge in the end.
Tricia Lynch - July 27th, 2012 at 6:07 PM
Perfect! Loved every single word!!
Lori - July 27th, 2012 at 6:07 PM
I never comment on anything I read online but I really want to comment on this! You have written a beautiful piece that perfectly puts into words how many Americans on both sides of this issue are feeling with this debate right now. We are fed up with the hatred, bigotry, and finger pointing from both sides. Bravo to you and I hope many, many people who had engaged in such actions will read this and realize how utterly ridiculous they are being. I will definitely be posting this on Facebook.
April - July 27th, 2012 at 6:12 PM
You know what I found out about the CNN article?
Truett Cathy was NEVER asked that question, and nothing was said during that interview. The "direct quote" that was used, noted by the quotation marks in the story, was not uttered that day.
You know what the author wrote in his sort-of-apology?
"It is what he was thinking."
We know what Mr. Cathy's thoughts and beliefs are. But when it becomes acceptable to make up part of a story to cause this kind of uproar, it makes a news outlet nothing more than a gossip rag.
Truett Cathy was NEVER asked that question, and nothing was said during that interview. The "direct quote" that was used, noted by the quotation marks in the story, was not uttered that day.
You know what the author wrote in his sort-of-apology?
"It is what he was thinking."
We know what Mr. Cathy's thoughts and beliefs are. But when it becomes acceptable to make up part of a story to cause this kind of uproar, it makes a news outlet nothing more than a gossip rag.
↳
Jen W - July 28th, 2012 at 11:22 AM
The Baptist Press Article is the one where Dan Cathy gave the "guilty as charged" quote, that AP and CNN and everyone else picked up. Here's the link: http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=38271
Cindy - July 27th, 2012 at 6:15 PM
You read my heart. Thank you so much!!!!
jeane - July 27th, 2012 at 6:20 PM
Whitney - July 27th, 2012 at 6:26 PM
Great post!a,
Jamie - July 27th, 2012 at 6:32 PM
Truett would not say what Dan did. . . Truett was busy working to provide excellent customer service to all.
Jenifer - July 27th, 2012 at 6:32 PM
Love it Jen!
Amy - July 27th, 2012 at 6:33 PM
Love it, thank you for speaking so clearly and reminding us all what is important and how to really show God's love.
Jeana - July 27th, 2012 at 6:35 PM
In the basement with you, although I'm wondering if we couldn't move this meeting to the beach??
Thank you for saying all the things I want to say so much more eloquently
Thank you for saying all the things I want to say so much more eloquently
Carolyn - July 27th, 2012 at 6:38 PM
Thank you for being real about this! I have been telling people that Chick Fil A is not going out of business due to any boycot and same sex couples are not going to stop making lives together just because right wingers "eat more chikin"
I personally have been asking people that are banning chickfila if they are shopping fair trade companies. It just seems so unbalanced to me. It would be so nice if we could see the same uprising come over our country for the real injusticies that are happening everyday in this world. Real crimes against humanity that we fund one penny at a time by simply shopping at the local grocery or gas station.
If nothing else, this nonsense has caused me to focus more on that.
I personally have been asking people that are banning chickfila if they are shopping fair trade companies. It just seems so unbalanced to me. It would be so nice if we could see the same uprising come over our country for the real injusticies that are happening everyday in this world. Real crimes against humanity that we fund one penny at a time by simply shopping at the local grocery or gas station.
If nothing else, this nonsense has caused me to focus more on that.
↳
Shelley Patterson - July 27th, 2012 at 6:54 PM
One thousand percent agree!
Penni - July 27th, 2012 at 6:40 PM
Jen, you always hit the nail on the head! I love your writing and your blog and your heart and your soul and every inch of your being! I think there are so few on this planet who TRULY GET the message of Jesus Christ and YOU GET IT!!! I just am so inspired by everything you write!! Thank you for sharing your voice!!!
Anon - July 27th, 2012 at 6:44 PM
I agree with a lot of what this blogger posted; however I must warn that I feel all the Christians hiding away in the basement isn't the answer either. I think that is why this country is on so much trouble now. When this culture is so far off course, this isn't the time to hide in our closets and pretend everything is going to get better while we all hold hands and eat chicken nuggets together. This world needs a good dose of Jesus.....real Jesus.....the Jesus who still loves and saves sinners.....while at the same time speaking truth about sin. Lines have been drawn....let's not get passive....He created marriage. To talk like gay marriage isn't important is to tell God that His laws mean little to us.
↳
Carolyn - July 27th, 2012 at 7:28 PM
My questions here are, what gives us the right to pick and choose what laws we should deem more important to God? God does not weigh one sin higher than another so why do we do this? Is it not God's place to judge? In fact were we told specifically NOT to judge? Since that came from God wouldn't that be considered a law? If we judge are we breaking that law? And if we are, how is it any worse than someone being a homosexual? Just asking, because if there something that indicates that the sins of others are greater than my own I would be very interested in reading it.
↳
Name - July 27th, 2012 at 9:05 PM
Thank you Anon. A hearty "Amen!!" coming your way!
Karen - July 27th, 2012 at 6:44 PM
I think a lot of us feel frustrated by these never-ending debates and the unfairness on both sides. But I am also concerned that, because of our frustration, too many of us are heading down to the basement. Is our voice heard down there in the basement? I think we need to figure out how to best engage our culture--this is nothing compared to what is coming--and if we don't really understand how to be relevant, we will be confined underground, our voices silenced in fear. (I usually don't take a "political stand" but I am concerned about the trend...)
Amy - July 27th, 2012 at 6:45 PM
Jesus calls everyone to act in different ways. I'm thankful he called me to stand up for love and acceptance, and not hide in a basement in an indirect effort to draw attention to myself.
Refusing to give my money to a company that then spends my money to support some very controversial groups, including one that has been partially responsible for violence against homosexuals overseas (Exodus International), is not a bad thing. This post won't shame me into thinking otherwise, nor will those who are afraid of a little controversy make me feel guilty. Blessed are the meek -- I get that. But Jesus wasn't afraid to stir up some emotions and anger people when necessary.
I will never stick my head in the sand, or hide in a basement, when faced with hatred and discrimination and fear. I will speak out against it every. damn. time. That doesn't mean I'm a bad person. That doesn't mean I hate the haters. And it doesn't mean I don't love those who I disagree with. It just means I'm called to advocate for those who need help and a voice.
If you don't want to be an advocate, no problem. That's your decision. But how dare anyone try to shame those who are fighting for a greater good.
Refusing to give my money to a company that then spends my money to support some very controversial groups, including one that has been partially responsible for violence against homosexuals overseas (Exodus International), is not a bad thing. This post won't shame me into thinking otherwise, nor will those who are afraid of a little controversy make me feel guilty. Blessed are the meek -- I get that. But Jesus wasn't afraid to stir up some emotions and anger people when necessary.
I will never stick my head in the sand, or hide in a basement, when faced with hatred and discrimination and fear. I will speak out against it every. damn. time. That doesn't mean I'm a bad person. That doesn't mean I hate the haters. And it doesn't mean I don't love those who I disagree with. It just means I'm called to advocate for those who need help and a voice.
If you don't want to be an advocate, no problem. That's your decision. But how dare anyone try to shame those who are fighting for a greater good.
↳
Ruth - July 27th, 2012 at 7:33 PM
Well said, Amy!
NJW - July 27th, 2012 at 6:52 PM
LOVED this.
Those that say "hiding in the basement" won't help anything, I think what Jen is saying is that, hey, let's leave all this non-sense and the opinions and fluffy stuff that doesn't matter like who is right and who is wrong and who is boycotting this place and who thinks they are perfect and leave those who judge where they are, and go to the basement where we can tackle things FOR REAL. It makes no sense to stay out in the storm, where you're NOT going to win.
I'm checking to see how soon I can have a basement built. :)
Those that say "hiding in the basement" won't help anything, I think what Jen is saying is that, hey, let's leave all this non-sense and the opinions and fluffy stuff that doesn't matter like who is right and who is wrong and who is boycotting this place and who thinks they are perfect and leave those who judge where they are, and go to the basement where we can tackle things FOR REAL. It makes no sense to stay out in the storm, where you're NOT going to win.
I'm checking to see how soon I can have a basement built. :)
↳
Michele - July 27th, 2012 at 7:30 PM
1000% agree! Kinda reminds me of the war waged in Chronicles of Narnia Prince Caspian. When was the war won? That's right, when they remembered who *really* fights and wins the war(s). Otherwise, there are unnecessary, insignificant casualties. I can't change people's hearts/behaviors, but I can lead them to the One that can, which is best done "in the basement."
Chandra s - July 27th, 2012 at 7:06 PM
We love. Period.
Last year after years of being on the outside of holidays, life, and pretty much doing everything wrong in my in laws eyes, they settled on spending thanksgiving with us. You see, we always have misfits, others like us, who are different, who don't have family, who enjoy holidays.....two precious lesbians broke bread with us. Speaking minimally to them, the day went better than we could have thought. The following day my fil, a pastor refused to walk past our entryway and yelled at my husband as I in front of our children about how we could have had "those neighbors" over.
Our kids were so confused and we were angry. How can one preach one day and another say hateful, vulgar words about someone Jesus created? Our minds were blown and our hearts ached.
To the person who says homosexuality is the reason for divorce, please actually look into facts and not go with what a church says. Homosexuality was around before divorce....divorce rates increased when porn, playboy, and Americans demanding gratification instantly took off....not because of men and women.
Churches divorce rate is 50%. Did you know that the average homosexual couple stays together longer than a heterosexual couple? They have to fight and work for their relationship, it's not as easy as paying $39.99 at their local court house when they feel like it.
Letters is a difference between sticking heads in the sand and love......so let's love....seems like it would work better than standing outside a gay club with a sign that reads "you're going to hell'
Last year after years of being on the outside of holidays, life, and pretty much doing everything wrong in my in laws eyes, they settled on spending thanksgiving with us. You see, we always have misfits, others like us, who are different, who don't have family, who enjoy holidays.....two precious lesbians broke bread with us. Speaking minimally to them, the day went better than we could have thought. The following day my fil, a pastor refused to walk past our entryway and yelled at my husband as I in front of our children about how we could have had "those neighbors" over.
Our kids were so confused and we were angry. How can one preach one day and another say hateful, vulgar words about someone Jesus created? Our minds were blown and our hearts ached.
To the person who says homosexuality is the reason for divorce, please actually look into facts and not go with what a church says. Homosexuality was around before divorce....divorce rates increased when porn, playboy, and Americans demanding gratification instantly took off....not because of men and women.
Churches divorce rate is 50%. Did you know that the average homosexual couple stays together longer than a heterosexual couple? They have to fight and work for their relationship, it's not as easy as paying $39.99 at their local court house when they feel like it.
Letters is a difference between sticking heads in the sand and love......so let's love....seems like it would work better than standing outside a gay club with a sign that reads "you're going to hell'
Chandra s. - July 27th, 2012 at 7:08 PM
There is not letters....autocorrect! Grrr. That is it I'm picketing outside apple demanding an app that reads minds.
Katie - July 27th, 2012 at 7:10 PM
Thank you. :) This is well said.
Susan - July 27th, 2012 at 7:12 PM
Thank you for articulating my thoughts so well.
Steven - July 27th, 2012 at 7:14 PM
There is a HUGE misconception that Chick Fil A is being boycotted just because of the CEO's comments. They are being boycotted because the company donated the profits they make off of their customers to anti-gay groups. Over $2 million in 2010 alone. THAT is why there is an uproar. The CEO fessed up: "Guilty as charged." Its not about his personal beliefs, its about them using their profits to hurt gay people. Discriminatory actions.
Carolyn - July 27th, 2012 at 7:18 PM
Anyone that follows Jen's blog, writing and her life would say she is not someone who would run from a fight. In fact many would say just the opposite. I did not get that she was trying to shame anyone. It is just a losing battle regardless of which side you are one and both sides look bad. You have the "Judge Not Lest Ye Be Judged" preachers actually judging and then you have those expecting tolerance for their view not giving it to the other side. It is an ugly situation and it is not a battle that is going to be won by who buys or doesn't buy a chicken sandwich.
I think that she was very brave to post this, considering most of her peers are going to strongly disagree. Especially when she is calling a spade a spade in this blog. Calling out your fellow Christians along side of those that they are deeming "sinners" is not something that is cowardly. It is something to be applauded, because as a Christian it is an obligation to do so.
I think that she was very brave to post this, considering most of her peers are going to strongly disagree. Especially when she is calling a spade a spade in this blog. Calling out your fellow Christians along side of those that they are deeming "sinners" is not something that is cowardly. It is something to be applauded, because as a Christian it is an obligation to do so.
Jennifer - July 27th, 2012 at 7:27 PM
Thank you of putting into words what has been stirring in my heart.
RachTurner - July 27th, 2012 at 7:38 PM
You nailed it, Jen Hatmaker. Nailed it to the wall with eloquence. Thank you for being a voice of reason for all.
Susan - July 27th, 2012 at 7:42 PM
You've stepped all over my toes with this and I appreciate it. I am ashamed of how I've let myself be sucked into all this unloving speech. If I want to experience grace then I need to be gracious.
I wonder how my Savior feels when His children bicker back and forth about things like this and then get all puffed up in our self-righteousness. Makes me want to hang my head in shame.
BUT! Tomorrow is a whole new day and my Lord allows mistakes especially when I learn from them and from Him.
Thank you for your blog post. Now, I'm going to grab a Pepsi and walk down to the basement.
I wonder how my Savior feels when His children bicker back and forth about things like this and then get all puffed up in our self-righteousness. Makes me want to hang my head in shame.
BUT! Tomorrow is a whole new day and my Lord allows mistakes especially when I learn from them and from Him.
Thank you for your blog post. Now, I'm going to grab a Pepsi and walk down to the basement.
Tonya - July 27th, 2012 at 7:42 PM
Thank you. I am fighting tears. Mostly because I often feel like I am the only one who feels like this. I feel caught in the middle of the "left" and "right and am so sick of the hatred. Jesus loved. and loved. and loved.
Corlea - July 27th, 2012 at 7:42 PM
Thank you for articulating how frustrating things have gotten on the ground level.
Kristen Severson - July 27th, 2012 at 7:43 PM
Thank you SO muxh for postiing this. I totally agree that we Christians as a group need to quit arguing over everything political and start loving people with all their 'ailments' because that's how we came to know Jesus. I didn't come to Jesus because someone shoved it down my throat or yelled at me or ostracized me. I came to Christ because the love that was shown to me was enough to win me over to Him.
Elizabeth Hankins - July 27th, 2012 at 7:54 PM
Thank you, Jen, for a grace-filled, hate-rejecting missive that points us straight at Jesus. You couldn't have said this with any more dignity, kindness and love for our entire human family. Love and blessings!!
Nichole - July 27th, 2012 at 7:54 PM
I grew up in church and I grew up hearing that being gay is wrong. Last year, my brother told our family that he was in a relationship with a guy. Since then, I KNOW that my unconditional love for him is all that matters. That's all I need to do, that's all I need to know. Period.
Amy Lynne - July 27th, 2012 at 7:55 PM
YOU ROCK!! I love this because it is said from the heart! Seriously, enough is enough from both sides of the aisle. Thank you for writing what so many of us are thinking!
Dana - July 27th, 2012 at 7:57 PM
Words cannot even express how you have captured the essence of what has been on my heart. All the hateful back and forth about chicken and gay marriage while people are suffering so much in the world. Just like the Israelites, we so easily get distracted from what God has called us to do and who God has called us to be. Thanks for the reminder. As for me and my family, we will serve the Lord - from the basement.
Jen - July 27th, 2012 at 8:00 PM
Sometimes truly loving people means acknowledging and taking a stand against their sin. Jesus loved people AND called them out on their sin (the woman at the well comes to mind). I am no ultra conservative fundamentalist but the idea that "loving" people to Jesus is all this world needs is wrong on many levels. God is LOVING and JUST. Forgetting that is a dangerous thing.
↳
Bonnie - July 27th, 2012 at 8:33 PM
Thank you!
↳
Diane - July 27th, 2012 at 9:50 PM
I agree; thank you for expressing this view.
↳
Ashley - July 28th, 2012 at 10:00 AM
Yes, but I think you're already forgetting what you just said. GOD is loving and just. GOD. WE are not God. WE are called to love. WE are NOT called to do GOD's job for HIM. GOD will continue to be just, as we shall continue to love.
Christi - July 27th, 2012 at 8:03 PM
Wow! Love this!
Dianne Hadaway - July 27th, 2012 at 8:14 PM
Thank you for your eloquence, focus and the rare gift of intelligent writing in a voice that resonates with those who have ears to listen. I'm grateful my friend Dawn led me to your blog to read this. Now my head feels screwed on good again and my heart feels relief after trying so hard to formulate the very thoughts you have so brilliantly expressed.
There's nothing that compares with reading a message so passionately and profoundly channeled, so well conceived and brought out that no matter what your own leanings or ideas might have been before, you have now heard a voice of reason that is so true you can only say "Amen!".
Love is the answer, it's always been the answer. God is love. It's that simple and that complex and all consuming. Thank you Jen, for these healing words. See you in the basement!
There's nothing that compares with reading a message so passionately and profoundly channeled, so well conceived and brought out that no matter what your own leanings or ideas might have been before, you have now heard a voice of reason that is so true you can only say "Amen!".
Love is the answer, it's always been the answer. God is love. It's that simple and that complex and all consuming. Thank you Jen, for these healing words. See you in the basement!
Rhonda - July 27th, 2012 at 8:15 PM
Girl I am coming to the basement and hiding until this next election season passes! Better yet - I think I've just decided that you should be my "write in" candidate for POTUS! Anybody with me?
:-)
:-)
Jenster - July 27th, 2012 at 8:17 PM
What I love about the basement is the constant temps. It's a welcome relief from the scorching heat up here.
Thank you for this beautiful post and putting into words everything I've been feeling.
Thank you for this beautiful post and putting into words everything I've been feeling.
Laura - July 27th, 2012 at 8:26 PM
Exactly, Thank you!
jolie - July 27th, 2012 at 8:34 PM
I appreciate your heart and your sentiments. I really do, and I LOVE you Jen Hatmaker! I just ask that Christians look at this slightly differently than saying, "WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL! I GIVE UP AND AM STICKING MY HEAD IN THE SAND." (I'm simplifying your statement. I know part of your sentiment was to stop bickering and I applaud that.)
God forbid that in this day and age there would be an organization that actively supported STUNTING or prohibiting __________'s rights (women's rights? black people's rights?) - would you feel it was slightly more urgent or personal? Not allowing homosexuals to marry is denying them a civil right. Period. He doesn't just have an opinion on it. He's using big dollars to make sure he helps carry out what he wants. I have to say, if this was a women's right, I wouldn't give a shit if a CEO hired me - if he was putting all his money into taking away my rights, I would be hurt.
I understand Christians feel that this is a moral issue. For many non-Christians, this is not a moral issue. It's a civil rights issue. I do not agree that any Chick-Fil-A should be shut down based on their CEO's opinion, but I think it stands to be pointed out that there are very valid reasons people are upset, beyond just that the CEO, "is entitled to an opinion" and people don't like that opinion.
Thanks for being passionate and humble and promoting LOVE above all. I love that about you.
God forbid that in this day and age there would be an organization that actively supported STUNTING or prohibiting __________'s rights (women's rights? black people's rights?) - would you feel it was slightly more urgent or personal? Not allowing homosexuals to marry is denying them a civil right. Period. He doesn't just have an opinion on it. He's using big dollars to make sure he helps carry out what he wants. I have to say, if this was a women's right, I wouldn't give a shit if a CEO hired me - if he was putting all his money into taking away my rights, I would be hurt.
I understand Christians feel that this is a moral issue. For many non-Christians, this is not a moral issue. It's a civil rights issue. I do not agree that any Chick-Fil-A should be shut down based on their CEO's opinion, but I think it stands to be pointed out that there are very valid reasons people are upset, beyond just that the CEO, "is entitled to an opinion" and people don't like that opinion.
Thanks for being passionate and humble and promoting LOVE above all. I love that about you.
Paula Reece - July 27th, 2012 at 8:35 PM
Thank you for expressing what so many of us have been struggling to express ourselves. Love and grace and humility ... that's what Jesus is all about, and what so many have forgotten. What an inspired post. As God is surely saying, "Well done, child."
kev - July 27th, 2012 at 8:42 PM
Thank you. I love you. This is very much what I feel and am unable to put into words myself. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Keri Mason - July 27th, 2012 at 8:43 PM
Oh praise Jesus...seriously...I have had it! I am awaiting travel approval to go pick up my 3 1/2 year old who is living in an orphanage in China...we've been on this journey for 2 years. And my sweet 6-year-old Chinese daughter is facing her 4th cleft surgery next month...someone opened fire in a movie theatre, for the love...and I am surrounded by arguments over CFA. Really? I mean, really...I love your heart, Jen...and how the Lord has gifted you to share it. I'll bring the waffle fries and lemonade and meet you in the basement :0)
Kisatrtle - July 27th, 2012 at 8:46 PM
Well done. Well done.
Name - July 27th, 2012 at 8:50 PM
I have loved reading your adoption posts, but will not come back to this site again. Yes, we are all sinners, but gays claim by their lifestyle that it is okay to reamain in sin. I don't see anywhere in the Bible of that being okay. The basement sounds like a cushy way to wimp out on taking a stand against a sin that is destroying lives! I have had gay friends before too. The ones that remained my friends are the ones who know that their "lifestyle" is a sin and are battling with all that is within them. I agree that the hateful, stupid talk should end.....it leads only to more hate.
↳
Marisa - July 28th, 2012 at 11:39 AM
Why is homosexuality the ultimate, "We must take a stand" issue? I would say greed, the love of money, destroys more lives in America than anything else. (And by extension, destroying lives around the world as we refuse to share with those who are in need.) Why don't more Christians "take a stand" on that issue? It it because that would require most of us to take a good look in the mirror? Are you only friends with people who realize their lifestyle of greed is a sin and are "battling it with all that is within them," as you say? If I limited my friends using that logic...I don't think I would have any friends at all.
↳
Ally - July 29th, 2012 at 10:06 PM
Absolutely, Marisa. Thanks for bringing this up. Greed and consumerism have not only destroyed many more lives than homosexuality but also warped Christianity into something almost unrecognizable from the church of my youth. Unfortunately this is a much harder issue for people to recognize, due in large part to people's difficulty with self-criticism. Thanks for your thoughtful post.
Leslie Clarkcla - July 27th, 2012 at 8:56 PM
Just love this, beatifully written!!
Rebecca Maas - July 27th, 2012 at 8:56 PM
I guess I live in the basement. A friend messaged me yesterday and said "this gay thing and Chick-fil-a is driving me nuts". I had no idea what she was talking about.
Jami - July 27th, 2012 at 9:01 PM
Wow. Wow. Wow. This is EXACTLY what I have been feeling. Thank you, Holy Spirit, for giving Jenn these words. And I did not feel like you said we were going to hide forever down in the basement. We are just waiting for the storm to pass.
NIcole - July 27th, 2012 at 9:03 PM
Justing - July 27th, 2012 at 9:05 PM
I will dwell with you. For that is what Jesus would do, and that is what we are commanded to do. Love all hate non, help the lost to the Grace and Love of the only God. No mater the sin. What a great post and right on the noise.
Stephanie - July 27th, 2012 at 9:05 PM
Thank you so much for this. I thought I was the only one who felt like this. Glad to have friends hanging out in the basement with me!!
Ashley E - July 27th, 2012 at 9:17 PM
Very well said...I think some people misunderstood the way that you "meant going into the basement" it doesn't mean you don't love, live, serve and take stands for what is right...but people would probably be much more interested in what we (Christians) have to say about these issues if they really saw us living, loving and serving like Jesus. We absolutely have the right as Americans to voice our opinions, blast whatever we want- whether tactful or not on Facebook.... But I will give up that "right" if it meant seeing one of my gay friends come to know Christ.
It sure seems a lot more glamorous to "take a stand" against the sin of homosexuality than to take a stand against equally abhorrent things to God- gossip, pride, impatience, rudeness and so many other sins that have entrapped all of us at some point in time.
Jesus did take a stand against the Pharisees...because they were like "whitewashed tombs" with rotting hearts on the inside. They judged before loving and thought they were above all the "real sinners" the tax collectors, prostitutes, sexually immoral, etc...while Jesus ( the Messiah that they didnt recognize) was busy forgiving them and eating with them!
I do not think for a moment that God is more pleased with the bickering and " in your face" way so many "Christians" are voicing their opinions about this than His followers feeding the poor, winning souls and giving shelter to orphans. There is no law against love... But there are plenty of times when Jesus spoke out against arrogance, pride, and self righteousness. We are all broken and sinful and all our sin stinks. Only Jesus could clean us up and make us right before Him. I'd much rather save my "stands" for defending Gods position on love, mercy, and grace than spotlighting a sin I don't struggle with and condemn those who do.
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?â€
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these.
Matthew 22:36-40
It sure seems a lot more glamorous to "take a stand" against the sin of homosexuality than to take a stand against equally abhorrent things to God- gossip, pride, impatience, rudeness and so many other sins that have entrapped all of us at some point in time.
Jesus did take a stand against the Pharisees...because they were like "whitewashed tombs" with rotting hearts on the inside. They judged before loving and thought they were above all the "real sinners" the tax collectors, prostitutes, sexually immoral, etc...while Jesus ( the Messiah that they didnt recognize) was busy forgiving them and eating with them!
I do not think for a moment that God is more pleased with the bickering and " in your face" way so many "Christians" are voicing their opinions about this than His followers feeding the poor, winning souls and giving shelter to orphans. There is no law against love... But there are plenty of times when Jesus spoke out against arrogance, pride, and self righteousness. We are all broken and sinful and all our sin stinks. Only Jesus could clean us up and make us right before Him. I'd much rather save my "stands" for defending Gods position on love, mercy, and grace than spotlighting a sin I don't struggle with and condemn those who do.
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?â€
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these.
Matthew 22:36-40
↳
Marisa - July 28th, 2012 at 11:44 AM
Amen Amen Amen! Thank you for saying this!
Laura Rozier - July 27th, 2012 at 9:21 PM
Excellent posting, good for you for reminding people that Jesus would not cast anyone in His Kingdom aside, and doing His work means not judging others or excluding/exhiling/antagonizing them for their beliefs or way of life. Everyone on earth has the right to believe what they want to and live the way they choose is best for them. Christians will make the most impact through modeling Christ's teachings of compassion, regardless of whether or not someone else's belief system is the same as yours. Everyone will have their own time to be judged, and it's not up to us on earth to do so to others.
Fiddledeedee - July 27th, 2012 at 9:21 PM
Make room for me in the basement. Well spoken.
Carole - July 27th, 2012 at 9:22 PM
Thank you for your words. I had just today told a friend that I was thinking about deleting my facebook account because I could bare the attacks and arguing anymore. You post meant so much to my heart. And I didn't shut my account down...but I shared your post instead:) Thank you, thank you!
Cyndi - July 27th, 2012 at 9:22 PM
God was screaming this message into my heart tonight. I feel just as you have written. It burdens my heart that people will turn away from Christ because of the stance people are taking in this. Let's lay down our arms and embrace all of those who are sinners just like me! Jesus told the pharasees to let the one with no sin be the first to throw the stone at the woman they were scorning who had committed adultry. I have no stone to throw. Not one person on this earth has a stone to throw. Let's give all sinners grace and mercy. Let's live as JESUS would have us live! Thank you Jen!!!!
Mary - July 27th, 2012 at 9:25 PM
My husband and I are fervently praying that our church will look just like your basement some day soon. We are seeking to be the agents of change that we wish to see. We seek to be like Jesus. Thank you and amen.
Katie - July 27th, 2012 at 9:27 PM
Brilliant. Eloquent. Profound. And much needed! I attempted a Facebook post this week, trying to get this point across, but I think you one-upped me. :) Love this, and am posting to Facebook. See you in the basement! :)
Monica - July 27th, 2012 at 9:29 PM
I loved this! Speak the truth of love, Jen! I have been fumbling with my blog post 'I love Chick Fil A and My Gay Neighbor', but this pretty much sums it up. You know something else? All of this recent media attention to the GLBT community is making everyone see that whether we like it or not, agree with it, or think all gays are damned, an estimated 5% of the world's population (I guess it is higher) has always been gay. Always. And for the most part, they have always been shamed. (Where do we find that in the Bible? Oh, we don't..that's right.) My advice has always been 'go find a gay Christian friend. Become good friends with him or her. Love him or her like Jesus told us to. THEN, come back and share your opinion. You will most definitely discover something about yourself, your neighbor, and most importantly, your Jesus! (Great follow up to systemic racism, BTW. Brace yourself with some waffle fries and CFA sauce.)
Patrick Green - July 27th, 2012 at 9:30 PM
Thank you.
Rebekah - July 27th, 2012 at 9:37 PM
Thank you for putting into words everything that was on my heart that I could not. This whole issue on every side has me sad. Conservative Christians speaking and judging without love or forethought to tone and more liberal Christians being sarcastic and condescending. "You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or your will be destroyed by each other." Galatians 5:13-15
Liz - July 27th, 2012 at 9:37 PM
Thank you for putting into words my thoughts exactly!!!!
Kalyn Thomas - July 27th, 2012 at 9:38 PM
I'm heading to the basement with you so please make room!!!
Cara - July 27th, 2012 at 9:42 PM
Thank you so much for putting into words how so many of us have been feeling. I have been frustrated with both sides of this issue. I want to focus on loving my neighbor rather than dwelling on our differences.
Mike Lite - July 27th, 2012 at 9:44 PM
I will not hide in any basements because this is exactly what the hate-mongers and bigots want- good peoples silence. Y'all feel free to hide from the woes that face our world, I will choose to weather the storm and maybe help humans become less hateful of one another along the way. I've been through several hurricanes and a handful of tornadoes and never needed a basement or shelter, a ditch works fine in a pinch and leaves you the ability to help others survive. Look to the storm-chasers for guidance not the ostriches. Ignoring our problems will never be the answer- good luck with your heads under the dirt.
Kim B - July 27th, 2012 at 9:50 PM
Jen,
You give me hope. There is very little room in the mega church (and it's satellite campuses) that I go to for basement people (unless they change and become like them). In our church they are wonderful in its strong Evangelical views, but it lacks the overt act of just loving others Jesus would love (especially those in the gay community). God help you if you want to vote for Obama. You put powerful words to what my husband (a former pastor and now a corporate diversity trainer) and I have been feeling for a very long time. It has been hard stay at church due to the increasing lack of tolerance, judgement, and lack of love. Politics and religion have cross-bred in our pews and it's not pretty. It's unloving and scary. I tell my husband all the time, "I have left the camp." It is so lonely out here. I am feeling compelled to speak up and speak out about my true feelings. I want to hang out in the basement with your friends. I know many will de-freind me on FB next month when I post my blog on faith vs the gay issue. I may never again be able to teach or hold a leadership position. My membership may even be taken away. I'm okay with that. I just wish there we some likeminded people, like you, to hang out with. Sounds like the party going on in your basement is going to be a blast!! I don't even know you but I think we could be friends. :-D I love your writing style. Mostly, I love your heart. Thank you
You give me hope. There is very little room in the mega church (and it's satellite campuses) that I go to for basement people (unless they change and become like them). In our church they are wonderful in its strong Evangelical views, but it lacks the overt act of just loving others Jesus would love (especially those in the gay community). God help you if you want to vote for Obama. You put powerful words to what my husband (a former pastor and now a corporate diversity trainer) and I have been feeling for a very long time. It has been hard stay at church due to the increasing lack of tolerance, judgement, and lack of love. Politics and religion have cross-bred in our pews and it's not pretty. It's unloving and scary. I tell my husband all the time, "I have left the camp." It is so lonely out here. I am feeling compelled to speak up and speak out about my true feelings. I want to hang out in the basement with your friends. I know many will de-freind me on FB next month when I post my blog on faith vs the gay issue. I may never again be able to teach or hold a leadership position. My membership may even be taken away. I'm okay with that. I just wish there we some likeminded people, like you, to hang out with. Sounds like the party going on in your basement is going to be a blast!! I don't even know you but I think we could be friends. :-D I love your writing style. Mostly, I love your heart. Thank you
Payton - July 27th, 2012 at 9:56 PM
OK you guys are saying that what Christians tweet/facebook is hurting Gay's, etc. and christians should live as an example instead, well we DON'T SEE these people to live as examples if we are on facebook or tweeting. YES we should LOVE as our daily walk and all join in at church or gatherins together no matter what the sin, BUT scripture says NOT to have a person 'CONSCIOUSLY' living openly in sin as leaders/elders,etc., that's when the problems start. Personally through posting online about judging 'righteously' or discussing politics HAS changed lives
↳
payton - July 27th, 2012 at 9:59 PM
sorry here's the rest>>> Personally through posting online about judging 'righteously' or discussing politics HAS changed lives
PAYTON - July 27th, 2012 at 9:58 PM
here's the rest sorry>>> Personally through posting online about judging 'righteously' or discussing politics HAS changed lives
Jill - July 27th, 2012 at 9:59 PM
I don't know you but, saw your story on one of my friends FB pages and wanted to say thank you. I wasn't going to post anything on my FB page but, this just tugged at my heart as this is it and must be posted. Thank you.
cortney schwalbe - July 27th, 2012 at 10:14 PM
I. have. never. read. such. truth. thank you for being so bold. i lack the boldness and eloquency, but i believe in what you wrote 200%!!! THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING JESUS' TRUTH!
Dana - July 27th, 2012 at 10:19 PM
AMEN. I have been covering my head the las few days under the covers. I'll come down to the basement instead. Love it here with y'all.
Bryan - July 27th, 2012 at 10:19 PM
I loved this article. Thank you for covering all the bases. As for Payton, yes there is a time and place for politics, and Christian apologetics. I know because that is where I am called. this article was a great reminder that even the greatest of apologetic arguments are simply bankrupt, if they are not undergirded by love. Yes there is ONE righteous judge, and He has already laid down the judgement regarding sin. We live and love accordingly. Simple as that.
Amy B. - July 27th, 2012 at 10:24 PM
Yes, yes, amen and amen. Huddled in the basement with you, praying, riding out the storm.
Jason - July 27th, 2012 at 10:26 PM
I am gay. I was a once a christian minister. I left Christianity when I was bludgeoned and have finally found peace and am happy. Out of everything I have read concerning this topic you alone have touched my heart. You are a true Christian and I am glad to have found this blog. Thank you for speaking what I know was hard to do. I tried to stand for mercy and love as a Christian and I was shot down. Blessings to you.
Danielle - July 27th, 2012 at 10:31 PM
You know what I'm over? Evangelical Christians claiming to be persecuted.
A few days ago I tried to engage in logical discourse with some over this matter, but it's hopeless. As long as you are so absolute in your belief that God is on your side, it gives rise to the ability to act in any manner of obnoxious and dangerous ways. It doesn't matter who you hurt, because you're doing "God's Will."
This absolutism gives you the belief that you have the divine authority to judge others and deem them unfit- that their mere existence deems them worthy of hate and judgement.
I understand that this will fall on deaf ears, or rather, blind eyes. Such is the trouble with the absolute belief that you know God better than anyone else. Perhaps if yourself and others were less prideful in your beliefs you could be bothered to walk a mile in the shoes of others, instead of retreating and claiming persecution whenever someone points out your bigotry.
Thankfully, you are only a small representation of the depth of Christianity.
A few days ago I tried to engage in logical discourse with some over this matter, but it's hopeless. As long as you are so absolute in your belief that God is on your side, it gives rise to the ability to act in any manner of obnoxious and dangerous ways. It doesn't matter who you hurt, because you're doing "God's Will."
This absolutism gives you the belief that you have the divine authority to judge others and deem them unfit- that their mere existence deems them worthy of hate and judgement.
I understand that this will fall on deaf ears, or rather, blind eyes. Such is the trouble with the absolute belief that you know God better than anyone else. Perhaps if yourself and others were less prideful in your beliefs you could be bothered to walk a mile in the shoes of others, instead of retreating and claiming persecution whenever someone points out your bigotry.
Thankfully, you are only a small representation of the depth of Christianity.
payton - July 27th, 2012 at 10:32 PM
actually Bryan we are commanded to judge "righteously".. John 7:24, be honest in your judgment and do not decide at a glance (superficially and by appearances); but judge fairly and RIGHTEOUSLY. We are suppose to judge sin from a humble heart without intent of hurting, etc. many other verses are giving examples of how we ARE to judge in the church
↳
payton - July 27th, 2012 at 10:35 PM
also, it is about discerning the sin, or else how will we be able to spot false teachers if we don't use good judgement... there's a difference in judging from bad motives and heart felt good intentions, out of love and CARE for your bro/sis
↳
payton - July 27th, 2012 at 10:38 PM
AND mostly out of respect for God and His WORD... GOD comes first
Jenni H - July 27th, 2012 at 10:33 PM
Sounds like to me, people in the closets and the basements are both playing it safe!!!
Ann Voskamp - July 27th, 2012 at 10:48 PM
This, Jen: "We’re going to go ahead and offer mercy to one another, even if it is viewed as “soft†or “cowardly†or “dangerous....†We’re going to trust that Jesus is actually at work in this world like He said, and when He promised that “His kindness leads us to repentance,†we’re just going to believe Him."
And the farm girl from Canada leaned over and whispered it with fire in her bones: AMEN.
A thousand Amens.
Love you, Jesus-sister...
All's grace because of Christ alone,
Ann
And the farm girl from Canada leaned over and whispered it with fire in her bones: AMEN.
A thousand Amens.
Love you, Jesus-sister...
All's grace because of Christ alone,
Ann
Monna - July 27th, 2012 at 10:56 PM
All I can say is _ AMEN (my baptist roots coming out). Jesus didn't come to pursue a political agenda but to draw all people to Him. I don't remember His saying they needed to be perfect first. Feel like I found a true sister spirit in this one. Thanks.
tara - July 27th, 2012 at 11:06 PM
His kindness does indeed lead us to repentance.
praying grace to fall like rain on all of us and praying we soak it up and then spill it out.
praying grace to fall like rain on all of us and praying we soak it up and then spill it out.
Lisa - July 27th, 2012 at 11:09 PM
Amen! Make room for me!
payton - July 27th, 2012 at 11:13 PM
so while in the basement, Christians what will you say to a gay person if they ask you what the bible says about living in a homosexual lifestyle?? Are you going to say "oh I'm not to judge" or are you going to tell them the Truth of what the bible says, and not fumble around and say 'we all sin' ... instead of kindly lovingly say it's a Sin. Remember, yes we all sin
↳
payton - July 27th, 2012 at 11:18 PM
this keeps cutting off the rest of post , so Remember yes we all sin but we are to teach each other what sin is and confess our sins one to another and so what are you going to say, will you avoid the truth. We all grow
↳
payton - July 27th, 2012 at 11:22 PM
also remember, living daily consciously in sin is different than accidental sin, because yes we all sin but there's a huge difference in LIVING consciously in sin and falling short here and there daily. GOD LOVES YOU but will work in each of us for transformation but we have to help each other too.
Laurie - July 27th, 2012 at 11:13 PM
Yesterday, I told God I know that all the yuck 'out there' is really inside me constantly battling the Spirit. Can I step down the creaky stairs?
Christa - July 27th, 2012 at 11:20 PM
"Come on down to the basement. I ordered a Chick-Fil-A nugget platter." L.O.L. You're my homie, girl.
dave - July 27th, 2012 at 11:28 PM
I would just add that the Christians aren't using the gospel as a bludgeoning tool. Rather, it's Paul's writings that are, among other things, homophobic.
claire - July 27th, 2012 at 11:30 PM
I really love the thoughtfulness of your writing and thinking about so many issues. However, the issue of gay marriage is not a "pointless argument." Injustice and discrimination, in any form, is not right. Would you feel the same if the Chic Fil A CEO was opposed to inter-racial marriage?
Eric - July 27th, 2012 at 11:30 PM
Thank you for calling us Christians on the carpet. The solution is not to lower homosexuality to perceived lesser sins but to elevate ALL sin PAST our perception of homosexuality as a "big sin". If you will be trying to get us all to realize the surpassing gravity of sin, I'll join you in the basement. Once successful we'll emerge changed, humbled and ready to preach, love, and share as we ought... STAGGERINGLY GOOD BLOG SIS!
Marylee - July 27th, 2012 at 11:40 PM
Awesome post. Exactly what's been on my heart!
Move over, basement peeps! Since the waffle fries and Diet Coke are covered,
I'll bring the CFA brownies! :)
Move over, basement peeps! Since the waffle fries and Diet Coke are covered,
I'll bring the CFA brownies! :)
Beth - July 27th, 2012 at 11:43 PM
Love, Love, Love
heather - July 27th, 2012 at 11:52 PM
Thank you.
MaryAnn - July 27th, 2012 at 11:56 PM
Thanks for sharing your heart and I would love to come down to the basement.
Tiffany - July 28th, 2012 at 12:19 AM
I realize that as Christians, everyone who doesn't know Jesus should "know us by our love". I have had more than one gay friend in my life, and it didn't have to be a problem I was a Christian heterosexual and they weren't. The real problem came if they ever wanted me to say it was "OK". I felt the same way about that as I would if someone asked me if it's ok to kill somebody, rob a bank or lie to save their own skin. Why? Because it's against the law...most importantly, God's Laws. I'm not forgetting about Jesus with the woman caught in adultery -- but people, keep it in context. After she met with the Master, after He had forgiven her - He bade her to go and sin no more. Not that she would no longer sin or make mistakes - but because she no longer had to be a slave to her flesh. With Christ's same power with which He overcame the grave, neither do we. Jesus gives us all freedom - but not outside of His Father's laws. Christ came to fulfill the law, not throw it out...and Leviticus was clear about homosexuality. I don't pass judgment on my fellow man, God's law does – take it up with Him. I don't refuse to love others because they are different, actually I relish the opportunity – one never learns anything from people who are exactly like themselves.
↳
Tiffany - July 28th, 2012 at 12:20 AM
As Christians, YES, we are to love all men and women. YES, we are to care for widows, orphans and the poor. YES (!!!) we are to be sharing the message of God's wonderful Love, news and forgiveness..and to pray without ceasing.
Truett Cathy's organization has empowered at least a handful of missionaries I personally know and love - who are currently serving on foreign soil - to have scholarships for educations they are now utilizing as they share the love of Jesus in other cultures around the world. He and his wife are great supporters in their church and great supporters of foreign missions (the poor, the widows, the orphans) with their personal funds. This is their right, and no, they don't publish the numbers or results of these figures for people to be impressed with them. They believe in the sanctity of marriage and support what they themselves practice. They have an Easter Egg hunt at their farm (opening up THEIR private property) every year and don't discriminate about the families who bring their children out for free candy and prizes...why is nobody mentioning that?
Truett Cathy's organization has empowered at least a handful of missionaries I personally know and love - who are currently serving on foreign soil - to have scholarships for educations they are now utilizing as they share the love of Jesus in other cultures around the world. He and his wife are great supporters in their church and great supporters of foreign missions (the poor, the widows, the orphans) with their personal funds. This is their right, and no, they don't publish the numbers or results of these figures for people to be impressed with them. They believe in the sanctity of marriage and support what they themselves practice. They have an Easter Egg hunt at their farm (opening up THEIR private property) every year and don't discriminate about the families who bring their children out for free candy and prizes...why is nobody mentioning that?
↳
Tiffany - July 28th, 2012 at 12:26 AM
I see 08/01 as this: a day to celebrate families...with chicken. The same way my family did at my very first CCM concert back in the late 80s. It's not about being anti-gay. It's chicken, and it's family time.. and doesn't that sound perfectly American? I don't plan to be preaching on the sidewalk of our local CFA, but if there are protesters, I plan to offer them a lemonade and a listening ear. Not tolerance, but love. Tolerance is merely "putting up" with someone, loving them goes farther - it's looking past the trappings of what our eyes see and seeing the other as who we once were or could have been. Seeing each other as human beings, not "straight", "gay" or "bi". No, Jesus was NOT tolerant; He loved. He DID NOT excuse sin, nor did He beat people over the head with God's laws: He lived out His teachings, and then He died for all mankind so He could offer all who will seek Him a free gift: complete and utter redemption. He FULFILLED the law so that when it convicts us, we can go to Him and accept His free gift of salvation.
↳
Tiffany - July 28th, 2012 at 12:27 AM
No, I will not join a party of people hiding out from the CFA apocalypse in a basement. I will be out there on the front lines, celebrating my family and offering a lemonade in memory of what Jesus Christ once did for me to someone who may or may not have ever had the privilege of knowing real love. Afterall, if we all hide from the gay people who may show up - how do we know they'll be shown love from a heart of compassion? Don't the ones who scream the loudest need most to see love in action - no matter which side of the "line" they are from?
↳
CC - July 28th, 2012 at 2:18 AM
You are one of the most theologically sound people on here. You obviously understand the faith system you claim. Thank you.
Gen - July 28th, 2012 at 12:24 AM
God, forgive me for being somewhat uncomfortable w/ the "basement policy". Help me to love anyway. You commanded me to do so
lala - July 28th, 2012 at 12:26 AM
People dont mentionthe Good of Chick Fila tgats whats sad.
Staciestac - July 28th, 2012 at 12:28 AM
If I wasn't already down in the basement with you, I would repost this on Facebook or Twitter or hire a hot air balloon with your blog address printed on it to lift off at a major sporting event. But I can't really stand political or religious debates via social media. They all end with no winners. So let's sit back and relax because I think this storm is going to last straight through until November. I hope you at least have cable in your basement! I would hate to miss any Real Housewives or the Olympics.
Well written, Jen! You've obviously struck a nerve!
Well written, Jen! You've obviously struck a nerve!
Sue Gerardot - July 28th, 2012 at 12:36 AM
Could you get a wrap platter to go with the nuggets? Basements make me hungary. I am grateful that I have food to eat!
jill clemence - July 28th, 2012 at 12:43 AM
WOW. Just the invitation I've been waiting for! I'll be right down!
Mike - July 28th, 2012 at 12:49 AM
If you wants to opt out - fine, I support your right to do that. But I disagree with your patronizing attempt to stop Christians from posting their views or support for Chick-fil-a or any other cultural issue in the news. Silence and apathy are what got us into the culture war mess we are in NOW. Christians have stayed silent and now the left and homosexuals have become violently antagonistic toward morality and decency - even to the point of threatening people's lives and businesses over their personal ideas and personal faith. Politicians have ignorantly and blindly even threatened banning - you don't see the problem? Ina few years they'll be coming to your cul-de-sac and taking you out of your basement fortress for being a Christian! This whole issue is a clear and precise symptom of Christians being silent while our culture and society have become more evil and NOW OUR VERY GOVT AND CIVIL RIGHTS is attacking us! While Christians do not need to be antagonistic - I feel that I need to stand up for what is right and stand up to the ignorant bigotry of the homosexual political and cultural agenda - which is MY "constitutional right" to free thought/free speech.
Ben - July 28th, 2012 at 2:11 AM
I must take issue with your point about how we should not "legislate our brand of morality" because as participants in a representative democracy, we "legislate" simply by voting (at least in theory), and surely you would not affirm that no one can ever vote a certain way based on their particular moral convictions. Perhaps that's something you yourself do, but it seems quite unreasonable to expect that of everyone.
The issue of "legislating morality" comes up a lot with the gay marriage issue because many who support gay marriage feel that conservatives, especially evangelical Christians, are imposing their own morality on others by voting or taking political action to keep gay marriage illegal. But if that's true, then voting or taking political action in support of gay marriage would also qualify as imposing one's morality on others because you are acting on the moral conviction that it's wrong to deprive gays of the freedom to marry each other. Under this logic, the only way a person could avoid imposing on others is to not vote at all.
Of course, you have every right to stay in your basement on election day! That may be your best bet if you're trying to avoid "legislating morality" as I personally have no idea how you could vote without doing that.
The issue of "legislating morality" comes up a lot with the gay marriage issue because many who support gay marriage feel that conservatives, especially evangelical Christians, are imposing their own morality on others by voting or taking political action to keep gay marriage illegal. But if that's true, then voting or taking political action in support of gay marriage would also qualify as imposing one's morality on others because you are acting on the moral conviction that it's wrong to deprive gays of the freedom to marry each other. Under this logic, the only way a person could avoid imposing on others is to not vote at all.
Of course, you have every right to stay in your basement on election day! That may be your best bet if you're trying to avoid "legislating morality" as I personally have no idea how you could vote without doing that.
↳
Tracy - July 28th, 2012 at 2:19 PM
I love this post, but I have to disagree with "But if that's true, then voting or taking political action in support of gay marriage would also qualify as imposing one's morality on others because you are acting on the moral conviction that it's wrong to deprive gays of the freedom to marry each other." Civil rights are not an opinion, they are a right.
If gays were trying to block heterosexuals from marrying, that would be the shoe on the other foot. Voting to defend civil rights would not impose gay marriage on anyone, it would simply mean that people would have the right to choose for themselves.
If gays were trying to block heterosexuals from marrying, that would be the shoe on the other foot. Voting to defend civil rights would not impose gay marriage on anyone, it would simply mean that people would have the right to choose for themselves.
↳
Ben - July 28th, 2012 at 9:10 PM
Since gay marriage opponents believe that gay marriage is detrimental to society, isn't the gay marriage supporter, by voting for its legalization, basically saying to the opponent, "Sorry, I know that's how you feel, but this is a civil right that must be given regardless of how dangerous or detrimental you think it is"? How is that not imposing one's morality on others?
Of course, my point in the previous post is that neither side is actually imposing their morality on the other by simply voting based on their moral convictions. But since people who support gay marriage are the ones who typically complain about gay marriage opponents imposing their morality on others, I wanted to show how if one side is "imposing," then both sides are.
Of course, my point in the previous post is that neither side is actually imposing their morality on the other by simply voting based on their moral convictions. But since people who support gay marriage are the ones who typically complain about gay marriage opponents imposing their morality on others, I wanted to show how if one side is "imposing," then both sides are.
↳
Josh - August 1st, 2012 at 12:24 AM
Ben, pro-gay people aren't forcing you to get gay married, or have your church perform them. Massachusetts has had gay marriage since 2004 and no pastor has been compelled to perform any wedding ceremony that violates his personal beliefs. However, by voting down gay marriage, you're telling gays they can't obtain the same rights you have. You're telling pro-gay pastors and civil servants which weddings they can and cannot officiate. Gy marriage doesn't impose any morality on others. Banning or disallowing same-sex marriage does.
↳
Ben - August 1st, 2012 at 11:11 PM
I will grant to you for the sake of argument that I am imposing my morality on others by voting against gay marriage based on my moral convictions. But you yourself, when you vote FOR it, are voting based on your OWN convictions which say that it is immoral to disallow gay marriage, and thus you are imposing your morality on people like me. How?
Because people like me believe that gay marriage has a morally corrosive effect on society and that America is becoming a worse place to live as more and more parts of the country legalize gay marriage. So from our standpoint, we most definitely ARE being effected.
Because people like me believe that gay marriage has a morally corrosive effect on society and that America is becoming a worse place to live as more and more parts of the country legalize gay marriage. So from our standpoint, we most definitely ARE being effected.
sharon ryan - July 28th, 2012 at 2:41 AM
Yes, thank you for saying what a lot of us feel. I am in the basement with you. The Lord made us all and loves us all and as he said, "judge not, lest you be judged."
Tina - July 28th, 2012 at 3:48 AM
AMEN GIRL
june - July 28th, 2012 at 4:26 AM
So glad you're hosting. We don't have basements in FL. I'm bringing the grape juice and bread. Oh, and could someone else bring some guitars and bongo drums. And I like those little shakey eggs, too.
Homie1 - July 28th, 2012 at 4:48 AM
Not a bad analogy. I get it, but I'd rather shout the good news from the mountaintop.
Heather - July 28th, 2012 at 5:01 AM
Just a clarification--Mr. Cathy didn't just state an opinion. Chick-Fil-A has donated millions to Christian organizations, which is all well
Anon783426 - July 28th, 2012 at 5:13 AM
Let's talk when the government is trying to keep you from getting married.
Dawn Hall - July 28th, 2012 at 5:31 AM
Thank you. Beautifully put. I would love to join you in the basement.
kelly - July 28th, 2012 at 6:37 AM
This is so well said. I wish that we could all wake up and see what is really going on in our country. I wish that the media would read this letter, I am really sick of all the bias
Lyn - July 28th, 2012 at 6:49 AM
My pastor shared this yesterday. You've been added to my must read list :) and yes, I'll join you in the basement.
Julie - July 28th, 2012 at 6:53 AM
In all seriousness and not trying to be controversial at all......I'm a 'reformed Christian conservative', and months ago I would have agreed with you instantly but something happened to me lately that gives me pause. I met a persecuted Christisn. She and her family were almost killed for her faith. Years of her life were stolen and she encouraged me to fight to preach the conservative angle in America. She was so thankful to have a place like America that she could come and live in peace and freedom. She's horrified that she can't just live here thinking her rights won't be trampled on again. I realized that day that America had been a place of freedom for her, freedom to believe and live in peace. I was thankful so very much for the ability I have to live fully as a Christian. I would never want to be abrasive and make people feel unloved and think that God is more about politics than helping others, BUT I realized that day that speaking up as much as I hate it has value. I know my history, and I hate to think I wouldn't speak up about something so small and fall into the trap of not fighting for rights and therefore forfeiting the ability I have to live as a free Christian. Isn't there a way we can speak up, in love? I just can't believe that running to the basement is the answer. I hate confrontation so much, but is bowing out our only option? Can't we express our opinions in love to those sets of Christians that seem so very hateful? Can't we say, I understand where you are coming from but let me show you a better, more loving way? Does it have to be basement and nothing versus bad attitudes and lack of love with the 'technically right' points? Just a thought that I'd love to hear your feedback on....
Cheryl - July 28th, 2012 at 7:21 AM
This an absolutely awesome blog post! You said everything in my heart but soo much better than I could have put into words! Thank you!
Jerry - July 28th, 2012 at 7:21 AM
"Hiding in your basement" every time an issue surfaces which you fear to face head on is like the Ostrich "sticking its head in the sand", you leave your butt exposed.
Angela - July 28th, 2012 at 7:52 AM
Brilliant!
Rhiannon - July 28th, 2012 at 7:53 AM
Thank you for this. I loved your message and will gladly share it with anymore. I join you in the basement.
Abby - July 28th, 2012 at 7:54 AM
Beautiful rally cry!
samantha - July 28th, 2012 at 8:12 AM
You don't need one more comment, but I just wanted to say that I am sending this post to my transgender sibling 1 day after a really long conversation where I straight up told him that what "christians" say and do.... plainly, isn't biblically based, and he can't base God on people.
↳
samantha - July 28th, 2012 at 10:07 AM
btw i am a bible based believer.
Brenda - July 28th, 2012 at 8:21 AM
That is so well written. I have just felt sick about all of the controversy on this. Thank-you for so eloquently putting into words what I am sure a lot of us feel. I hope you don't mind but I am going to share your comments on my Facebook. I will also join you in the basement!! In Christs Love!
Anom - July 28th, 2012 at 8:30 AM
I don't think that not feeding the world is a sin, where engaging in homosexual acts is. I believe that we should put people in office who will vote against sin, the rest is just politics and makes the world work. We are always going to have taxes. You need money to make money.
Mar - July 28th, 2012 at 8:33 AM
Thank you, Jen.
Kelly Jo Little - July 28th, 2012 at 8:40 AM
Dearest Jen, I love some of what you say in this post. Â However I feel compelled to comment.Â
First of all, CFL was not just expressing their first amendment right to an opinion. Â They are donating proceeds from said chicken nuggets (which admittedly are delish) to far right wing groups that are actively lobbying for laws to ban gay folks from marrying the person they love, adopting and spousal benefits (including inheritance, child custody, hospital privileges, and life and death decisions). Â I read the letter from the Mayor of Boston and I don't recall him saying anything about banning permits. Â I could be wrong but it was just an opinion stating that bigotry and hatred are not welcome in their city.
This is not just background noise that will go away.
You have to ask yourself one thing. Â Is being gay a choice people make or are they born that way? Â I will say from my experience EVERY SINGLE GAY PERSON SAYS THEY ARE BORN THIS WAY. Â I'm in theatre, I know alot of gay folks. Â I also go to one of those all to rare churches that is "open and affirming"-my pastor is a lesbian. Â I ask you, why would anyone CHOOSE a life of ridicule, bigotry, hatred, being disowned by your family and hated by your church family? Â Being told that God HATES what you are, what you were born to be. Â Â How many young gay people commit suicide because their families disowned them or they were bullied unmercifully because they were different? Â How many people have been beaten or killed because of who they are? Â One is too many. Â
God does not make mistakes. Â
I agree with you Jen, Christ is about love. Â Pure and simple. Â But standing aside and hiding in your basement while allowing hatred and bigotry to thrive, waiting for it to go away, is not a loving act. Â I am certain it is not what Jesus would do.
Thank you for considering my words. Â Peace, Kelly Jo
First of all, CFL was not just expressing their first amendment right to an opinion. Â They are donating proceeds from said chicken nuggets (which admittedly are delish) to far right wing groups that are actively lobbying for laws to ban gay folks from marrying the person they love, adopting and spousal benefits (including inheritance, child custody, hospital privileges, and life and death decisions). Â I read the letter from the Mayor of Boston and I don't recall him saying anything about banning permits. Â I could be wrong but it was just an opinion stating that bigotry and hatred are not welcome in their city.
This is not just background noise that will go away.
You have to ask yourself one thing. Â Is being gay a choice people make or are they born that way? Â I will say from my experience EVERY SINGLE GAY PERSON SAYS THEY ARE BORN THIS WAY. Â I'm in theatre, I know alot of gay folks. Â I also go to one of those all to rare churches that is "open and affirming"-my pastor is a lesbian. Â I ask you, why would anyone CHOOSE a life of ridicule, bigotry, hatred, being disowned by your family and hated by your church family? Â Being told that God HATES what you are, what you were born to be. Â Â How many young gay people commit suicide because their families disowned them or they were bullied unmercifully because they were different? Â How many people have been beaten or killed because of who they are? Â One is too many. Â
God does not make mistakes. Â
I agree with you Jen, Christ is about love. Â Pure and simple. Â But standing aside and hiding in your basement while allowing hatred and bigotry to thrive, waiting for it to go away, is not a loving act. Â I am certain it is not what Jesus would do.
Thank you for considering my words. Â Peace, Kelly Jo
Jessica - July 28th, 2012 at 8:42 AM
I love the basement - it's the perfect place to cool down from the heat and a lot more comfortable then sticking my head in the freezer.
Thank you for writing this.
Thank you for writing this.
Angie - July 28th, 2012 at 8:52 AM
Well said.
Kim - July 28th, 2012 at 9:00 AM
this is the best take on the whole mess I have read- I agree with everyone above me- You have written what is in our hearts. May the Love of God overcome what religion and politics has attempted to ruin.
Rick Goettsche - July 28th, 2012 at 9:02 AM
I agree with a great deal of what you have written here. If there is one thing that drives me nuts it is Christians seeking to use the same tactics and rhetoric that the rest of the world uses. Surely this is not the kind of behavior Christ had in mind.
I must also admit that when I first read through your blog post yesterday (which was posted on FB by a friend of mine), something didn't sit right with me but I couldn't put my finger on it. Now that I've had some time to reflect on it and pray about it, I think I know what was bugging me--I don't think that hunkering in the basement is the appropriate response.
Like you, I've spent many a spring/summer afternoon hunkered in the basement waiting to see if the tornado would come (and once actually holding on for dear life when it did). The reason we hunker in the basement is because there really is nothing else we can do. We must simply go into self-preservation mode. I really don't think this is the attitude that we are supposed to have.
Instead of retreating to the basement, we are supposed to be a city on a hill, a light shining in the darkness, pointing people to Christ. Yes, there are many Christians up on a hill, few of whom are pointing people to Christ, and we shouldn't follow their pattern, but I still don't believe the right response is to get into the basement.
Maybe I'm completely misunderstanding your post, and if that's the case, I sincerely apologize and welcome your attempt to help me understand better. If I'm misunderstanding though, I suspect others may be as well.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think much of what you are saying is valuable and biblical. We should be people who love, regardless of sexual orientation, political beliefs, or any other issue on which we might disagree. That is not to say that we retreat from having discussions about true morality. It does not mean that we tell others that what the Bible says about sin is irrelevant. It does not mean that we call acceptable what God calls sin. It does mean that we shouldn't wage war as the world does (2 Corinthians 10:3-4)--that we shouldn't resort to name-calling, ad hominem, and sloganeering to win a following. Rather, we should be people of prayer, and people who earn the right to be heard by listening to others. We should fight the "culture war" prayerfully, lovingly, calmly, and with respect for those with whom we disagree. Ultimately, it isn't about me, or about my opinions--it is about bringing glory to God, and helping others to turn to Him because it really is in their best interest.
I apologize for the length of my comment, but I hope you will take the time to read it and understand it in the heart with which it is intended. I hope I will see you on the front lines soon, not fighting with the weapons of the world, but contending for the faith that was entrusted to God's holy people (Jude 3) in a way that honors God, not tears down others.
In Christ,
Rick
I must also admit that when I first read through your blog post yesterday (which was posted on FB by a friend of mine), something didn't sit right with me but I couldn't put my finger on it. Now that I've had some time to reflect on it and pray about it, I think I know what was bugging me--I don't think that hunkering in the basement is the appropriate response.
Like you, I've spent many a spring/summer afternoon hunkered in the basement waiting to see if the tornado would come (and once actually holding on for dear life when it did). The reason we hunker in the basement is because there really is nothing else we can do. We must simply go into self-preservation mode. I really don't think this is the attitude that we are supposed to have.
Instead of retreating to the basement, we are supposed to be a city on a hill, a light shining in the darkness, pointing people to Christ. Yes, there are many Christians up on a hill, few of whom are pointing people to Christ, and we shouldn't follow their pattern, but I still don't believe the right response is to get into the basement.
Maybe I'm completely misunderstanding your post, and if that's the case, I sincerely apologize and welcome your attempt to help me understand better. If I'm misunderstanding though, I suspect others may be as well.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think much of what you are saying is valuable and biblical. We should be people who love, regardless of sexual orientation, political beliefs, or any other issue on which we might disagree. That is not to say that we retreat from having discussions about true morality. It does not mean that we tell others that what the Bible says about sin is irrelevant. It does not mean that we call acceptable what God calls sin. It does mean that we shouldn't wage war as the world does (2 Corinthians 10:3-4)--that we shouldn't resort to name-calling, ad hominem, and sloganeering to win a following. Rather, we should be people of prayer, and people who earn the right to be heard by listening to others. We should fight the "culture war" prayerfully, lovingly, calmly, and with respect for those with whom we disagree. Ultimately, it isn't about me, or about my opinions--it is about bringing glory to God, and helping others to turn to Him because it really is in their best interest.
I apologize for the length of my comment, but I hope you will take the time to read it and understand it in the heart with which it is intended. I hope I will see you on the front lines soon, not fighting with the weapons of the world, but contending for the faith that was entrusted to God's holy people (Jude 3) in a way that honors God, not tears down others.
In Christ,
Rick
↳
Anna - July 28th, 2012 at 10:26 AM
Let me preface this with the fact that I am a consumer of Chick-Fil-A....and Starbucks and The Home Depot. Please remember this tidbit by the time you finish reading my following comment.
Rick, I'm thankful for your comment to this post because when I read it, I thought to myself, "This is a great metaphor, but something about it seems to communicate something awkward." Like you, I wasn't sure what it was that bothered me until I scrolled down and found your comment, of course at the very end of a long line of comments. We are definitely to be a city on a hill rather than people hunkering in the basement. I think much of Jen's post is very well-stated, and I agree with much of it: I'm tired of culture wars, overly critical judgments and condemnation, and tangents on Facebook/Twitter about who has the last word, and who is right/wrong. But let me add something else to Rick's comment that I think is essential: Jen's basement metaphor is beautiful on many levels, but the overall message borderline communicates that we should "love" others in a way that leaves me with a picture of a bunch of people at a party in a basement identifying with each other because they are all sinners, yet nothing has been said yet about how the Body of Christ does not only love one another, but does what it can to build and lovingly correct the sins of its members. Loving someone is not tolerating them; Jesus loved all, including the Pharisees, but he showed righteous anger toward their sin when they used the church as a place for selling and trading, throwing over tables; yes, Jesus loves us, and has shown what grace and mercy can do to change our lives. But mark my words, anyone who thinks that loving someone means tolerating the sin in their lives without any kind of attempt to approach it and converse with that person, that member of the Body of Christ, we are encouraging them in their sin by turning our heads and choosing to ignore it. Paul instructs many times in 1 and 2 Timothy to lovingly rebuke those persisting in sin, with patience and without partiality or hasty judgment. Yes, we are to love everyone, and yes, we are all sinners and should not be quick to judge. But fellow Christians, God has given us the confidence to approach our brothers and sisters when they continue to stumble and sin, and he enables us do so with love, grace, and patience. Jen, I encourage you and applaud you for rejecting the "culture wars" of our times, but I also encourage you to not forget that not only did Jesus show abounding love, he also came to teach and disciple so that we would not continue to live in sin.
I know a lot of people who are not Christians, and they know how to love the hurting people in this world more than most Christians; but the difference between Christians and those who aren't should be that we love AND encourage others to turn away from sin, not continue in it, much less be proud of it. Let's disciple one another to better ourselves and be more holy and righteous (not to be confused with holier-than-thou and self-righteous). No more legalism, hasty judging, and Bible bludgeoning; but no more turning the other way, ignoring sin, and writing it off as "Christian love." That is certainly not what Jesus would have done, or would have wanted.
I apologize for my long post as well. We all have things that need to be said, and this is one of those things where it was the time and place to say it. I appreciate Jen for her message, but as a fellow Christian felt the need to contribute some thoughts to the discussion that I believe are valid. Many blessings to all!
Rick, I'm thankful for your comment to this post because when I read it, I thought to myself, "This is a great metaphor, but something about it seems to communicate something awkward." Like you, I wasn't sure what it was that bothered me until I scrolled down and found your comment, of course at the very end of a long line of comments. We are definitely to be a city on a hill rather than people hunkering in the basement. I think much of Jen's post is very well-stated, and I agree with much of it: I'm tired of culture wars, overly critical judgments and condemnation, and tangents on Facebook/Twitter about who has the last word, and who is right/wrong. But let me add something else to Rick's comment that I think is essential: Jen's basement metaphor is beautiful on many levels, but the overall message borderline communicates that we should "love" others in a way that leaves me with a picture of a bunch of people at a party in a basement identifying with each other because they are all sinners, yet nothing has been said yet about how the Body of Christ does not only love one another, but does what it can to build and lovingly correct the sins of its members. Loving someone is not tolerating them; Jesus loved all, including the Pharisees, but he showed righteous anger toward their sin when they used the church as a place for selling and trading, throwing over tables; yes, Jesus loves us, and has shown what grace and mercy can do to change our lives. But mark my words, anyone who thinks that loving someone means tolerating the sin in their lives without any kind of attempt to approach it and converse with that person, that member of the Body of Christ, we are encouraging them in their sin by turning our heads and choosing to ignore it. Paul instructs many times in 1 and 2 Timothy to lovingly rebuke those persisting in sin, with patience and without partiality or hasty judgment. Yes, we are to love everyone, and yes, we are all sinners and should not be quick to judge. But fellow Christians, God has given us the confidence to approach our brothers and sisters when they continue to stumble and sin, and he enables us do so with love, grace, and patience. Jen, I encourage you and applaud you for rejecting the "culture wars" of our times, but I also encourage you to not forget that not only did Jesus show abounding love, he also came to teach and disciple so that we would not continue to live in sin.
I know a lot of people who are not Christians, and they know how to love the hurting people in this world more than most Christians; but the difference between Christians and those who aren't should be that we love AND encourage others to turn away from sin, not continue in it, much less be proud of it. Let's disciple one another to better ourselves and be more holy and righteous (not to be confused with holier-than-thou and self-righteous). No more legalism, hasty judging, and Bible bludgeoning; but no more turning the other way, ignoring sin, and writing it off as "Christian love." That is certainly not what Jesus would have done, or would have wanted.
I apologize for my long post as well. We all have things that need to be said, and this is one of those things where it was the time and place to say it. I appreciate Jen for her message, but as a fellow Christian felt the need to contribute some thoughts to the discussion that I believe are valid. Many blessings to all!
Terri - July 28th, 2012 at 9:12 AM
Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou
Carleen - July 28th, 2012 at 9:30 AM
Bless you for voicing what so many felt in this storm.
kat - July 28th, 2012 at 9:40 AM
Thank you for this. It is beautifully written. My only (minor) disagreement is with your Zuckerberg comparison. If he, as an atheist, donated large amounts of money to a group that actively tried to deny rights to Christians, I would boycott facebook (and I am agnostic). I think everyone has a right to their beliefs and should be able to discuss them freely. But I do think there is a difference between believing something and denying others the rights to their beliefs (which some of the groups he donates to actively try and do). I am a heterosexual, married female and I haven't decided whether to boycott or not....I support his right to speak his mind, but I also support my Gay and Lesbian friends in their quest to have equal rights under the law. Your writing helped sum up how I feel though, because so much of what is written on both sides of the issue, has such negative, hate filled connotations, without any consideration on how we all can work towards a better understanding.
Sheila - July 28th, 2012 at 9:53 AM
thank you for writing this! So true!!
karyn - July 28th, 2012 at 9:54 AM
Count me in!! The ONLY problem I had was how the subject was presented by the CEO, but we all make mistakes in speech. I am in the basement, and i believe God loves ALL people!!! Nuff said :-)
Ashley R - July 28th, 2012 at 9:58 AM
EXCELLENT! This is exactly how I have felt but didn't know how to say it! Thank you!
Christine - July 28th, 2012 at 10:06 AM
I have been feeling like a loner in the basement lately, but God has been turning the lights on and I have found some of my friends down there too! I love the way God is moving in the lives of those who truly want to be like him. It is humbling, sometimes lonely, but oh so lovely.
Pam - July 28th, 2012 at 10:11 AM
Thanks Jen for writing this. I'm in the basement during this wicked storm because I have two young adult children who are gay, whom my husband and I love so very much.
For all of their lives and especially during the last seven years, we have prayed that they would have good Christian people in their lives at school, work and everywhere else they may go. We grieve deeply and often when these kind of storms come about because of the lack of Christlike behavior on the part of so many. Our responses have not always been Christlike, but we are learning, and we have learned that love is truly the only possible answer.
How my children respond to the message of God's love is up to them. I would much rather have gay children who believe in God and have a relationship with Him than be gay and not know God. Thank you Jen for being the kind of Christian that will be helpful and not hurtful towards my dear children.
And if it helps brother Rick and others who have raised a concern, think of this basement as the one that is on the highest hill in the land and where there is a beam of light and love shining for people to see their way through in the darkness.
For all of their lives and especially during the last seven years, we have prayed that they would have good Christian people in their lives at school, work and everywhere else they may go. We grieve deeply and often when these kind of storms come about because of the lack of Christlike behavior on the part of so many. Our responses have not always been Christlike, but we are learning, and we have learned that love is truly the only possible answer.
How my children respond to the message of God's love is up to them. I would much rather have gay children who believe in God and have a relationship with Him than be gay and not know God. Thank you Jen for being the kind of Christian that will be helpful and not hurtful towards my dear children.
And if it helps brother Rick and others who have raised a concern, think of this basement as the one that is on the highest hill in the land and where there is a beam of light and love shining for people to see their way through in the darkness.
Randi - July 28th, 2012 at 10:12 AM
Beautifully said. Thank you.
J Patterson - July 28th, 2012 at 10:14 AM
Well for someone who says they are "over it" you sure seem to be all over it! This is just a distraction from important issues like jobs and the ecomomy which I am so sure that Mr. Obama is greatful for!!!!!
Todd - July 28th, 2012 at 10:20 AM
I resonate with some of what has been stated in the original article, but I do have some concerns. When we speak of the "historical" Jesus we are speaking about the Jesus in the Bible (yes those books penned by His followers). They are reliable in the information they convey. As a Jewish teacher, Jesus would have upheld the Torah (the Law of the Old Testament). As God incarnate He was the fulfillment of the Law. While I agree that we push to convey God's love, grace, and mercy, we must not fall into the trap that dismisses His holy character which also carries with it, justice and wrath. I am tired of people picking the parts of scripture that suit them and discarding the rest.
Second, we speak of the Great Commandment as loving God and others and often treat it as a pithy statement without contemplating the weight of the command, especially the first part. What does it mean to love God? Jesus stated it in terms of loving, respecting, and obey the commandments (boundaries) of God. This is where we struggle! We want to skip quickly past this first and most important part to get to the second and this is where we camp, join hands, and sing. Friends, you cannot love others if you are not loving God in the way that He has defined.
Third, we are confusing freedoms and rights. Under the current state of God's kingdom, we all have the freedom to cross God's boundaries, but we do not have the right to do so (the very nature of which implies we have the right to redefine those boundaries if we don't like them).
I don't care for the storm analogy specifically because you referred to the debate as a culture war. A storm occurs naturally, a war does not. I agree that it is a culture war and we as Christians should fight to remain counter-cultural to the world's ideology and we should not be striving for its acceptance nor hiding in basements . . . God is our refuge and strength when we need shelter from the storms of life. He is also our commander when we are called to battle in the spiritual warfare all around us. Before I am misunderstood, I will clarify that being counter-cultural means loving God and others radically the way Jesus did AND speaking the truth the way Jesus did even though it is unpopular. We must call sin what it is . . . an offense to God! We must do this with our OWN sin FIRST lest we deceive ourselves into thinking we are better than everyone else.
I call you out of the basement and into the world where the truth, light, peace, security,forgiveness, love, life, and joy of Jesus is needed!
Second, we speak of the Great Commandment as loving God and others and often treat it as a pithy statement without contemplating the weight of the command, especially the first part. What does it mean to love God? Jesus stated it in terms of loving, respecting, and obey the commandments (boundaries) of God. This is where we struggle! We want to skip quickly past this first and most important part to get to the second and this is where we camp, join hands, and sing. Friends, you cannot love others if you are not loving God in the way that He has defined.
Third, we are confusing freedoms and rights. Under the current state of God's kingdom, we all have the freedom to cross God's boundaries, but we do not have the right to do so (the very nature of which implies we have the right to redefine those boundaries if we don't like them).
I don't care for the storm analogy specifically because you referred to the debate as a culture war. A storm occurs naturally, a war does not. I agree that it is a culture war and we as Christians should fight to remain counter-cultural to the world's ideology and we should not be striving for its acceptance nor hiding in basements . . . God is our refuge and strength when we need shelter from the storms of life. He is also our commander when we are called to battle in the spiritual warfare all around us. Before I am misunderstood, I will clarify that being counter-cultural means loving God and others radically the way Jesus did AND speaking the truth the way Jesus did even though it is unpopular. We must call sin what it is . . . an offense to God! We must do this with our OWN sin FIRST lest we deceive ourselves into thinking we are better than everyone else.
I call you out of the basement and into the world where the truth, light, peace, security,forgiveness, love, life, and joy of Jesus is needed!
Lucy - July 28th, 2012 at 10:23 AM
God or Jesus doesn't hate gay people. Just because the bible says it, doesn't make it true. Don't hide in the basement with a tray of nuggets, it's unhealthy. It's never healthy to hate and organized religion condones this, which is it's major problem, even though it sets out not to. Step outside the box and open your mind and hearts. Hate, even if behind closed doors, whether from a corporation or person cannot be tolerated. and it is hate, it's not faith. Bravo to the Mayor of Boston.
Maggie Buckley - July 28th, 2012 at 10:24 AM
This is everything I've been thinking but couldn't get on paper - THANK YOU for speaking MY mind as well as yours.
:) Mags
:) Mags
Teresa - July 28th, 2012 at 10:31 AM
wow KB, thank you and your hubby for protecting our freedoms. Which is my point about all of this. . freedom of religion, freedom speech, the ability to conduct business as I see fit based on my personal beliefs within the realms of the laws /codes established. Tolerance is a door that swings two ways. . and the definition of the word has been abused by many.
I will be tolerate of you . . maybe not accepting as is my right but tolerant, loving, respectful. I promise to pray for you always. . I am not asking you to come along side of me and change your mind or your values. Please in return be tolerant of me and the values I hold dear.
It is called mutual respect and love for one another. It is not my job to judge you, to speak up in love, clarity and discernment. That's what God calls me to do - it is His job and His alone to be the judge. KB, praying for you and all involved in this attack by Satan. He is the author of all deceit and lies. He is the stealer, manipulator - he is reveling in the fact that the once again has caused chaos not only among the citizens of American but between Christians. That is his sole purpose - keep in my mind we need to stay on track. . run the good race- watch for the prize - rememeber we will all be judged one day.
I will be tolerate of you . . maybe not accepting as is my right but tolerant, loving, respectful. I promise to pray for you always. . I am not asking you to come along side of me and change your mind or your values. Please in return be tolerant of me and the values I hold dear.
It is called mutual respect and love for one another. It is not my job to judge you, to speak up in love, clarity and discernment. That's what God calls me to do - it is His job and His alone to be the judge. KB, praying for you and all involved in this attack by Satan. He is the author of all deceit and lies. He is the stealer, manipulator - he is reveling in the fact that the once again has caused chaos not only among the citizens of American but between Christians. That is his sole purpose - keep in my mind we need to stay on track. . run the good race- watch for the prize - rememeber we will all be judged one day.
Sue - July 28th, 2012 at 10:36 AM
Hmm, wonder what our country would be like today if everyone in 1776 went to the basement.
Diana - July 28th, 2012 at 10:51 AM
This is EXACTLY what I have been saying on Facebook, only you, my dear woman,said it better than I ever could. Thank you!!
Name - July 28th, 2012 at 10:53 AM
I am so over all the hate. But we do have to remeber that Jesus will come back someday and as the time gets nearer our world is only going to get worse. I am not here to judge how someone else lives their lives. I love my bible, I love Jesus, and I love mankind. We all have our demons and sins to deal with sometimes on a daily basis. That is why we have grace and forgiveness. I am in no way saying that the gay lifestyle is ok because it is not. The bible tells us it is not. It is a sin just as lying and stealing is. To God sin is sin no matter what we think the level of that sin is. All I want is Jesus and His love in my life to guide me and be a light in this world to lead others to Him.
The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
How glorious it would be to have all those gay people in heaven with me someday!!
The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
How glorious it would be to have all those gay people in heaven with me someday!!
Ann Mariea - July 28th, 2012 at 11:12 AM
Beautifully written Jen!
Sandra - July 28th, 2012 at 11:30 AM
Well said. No, extremely well said. Equating hating with disagreeing is so counterproductive.
LKR - July 28th, 2012 at 11:33 AM
Exactly how I feel. I'm posting a link on my facebook page and I hope my friends will read it. ALL of my friends. Thank you for being a voice for us who feel exactly how you are feeling but are not as eloquent in our words.
Jessica - July 28th, 2012 at 11:38 AM
Thank you for voicing so eloquently what I also have been feeling and thinking. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Melissa - July 28th, 2012 at 11:47 AM
This is so my heart. It saddens me to see this war going on. I feel exactly the same way you do. Thank you for blogging about this. I have gay friends that I love. I have been looked down upon from the "Christian Crowd" because I associate with them. I also have Christian friends and family that I love. I was raised in a Christian home. Like you said though, I have seen the Bible used as a bludgeoning tool too often, and it makes me sad. Because I don't use it the same way, I am not too popular with the "Christian Crowd" and I am not considered a strong Christian. I believe Love does conquer all. If that makes me unpopular or a weak Christian, so be it....
Lisa - July 28th, 2012 at 11:50 AM
Thank you for posting! I do believe and hope that most people feel this way! I have shared on FB and hope that it goes out to help put an end to this "storm" that is out of control!
Matt - July 28th, 2012 at 11:55 AM
You've gotten a LOT of comments here on this post and I haven't had the time to read them all, so if I am about to repeat what someone else said, I'm sorry.
You have an inconsistency in your post in which you speak out against both boycotts and against outright bans on products simply because of the opinions of the CEO's or owners of a company. Yet you also said this:
"If you don’t like his personal policy, don’t eat there. Problem solved." Is that not a boycott?
Personally, I think boycotts are fair, fine, and just.... so long as people understand fully why they're doing it.
And the reason I have no problem with boycotts is that those owners and/or CEO's make plenty of money (no grudge here, I love capitalism) which they in turn donate to causes I find repugnant (therein lies the problem). They have every right to donate to whatever crappy cause they desire, BUT...I don't want ANY of MY money to go to those causes if I can help it, hence my boycott.
Let the gays boycott Chick-Fil-A if they wish. I'm still boycotting Sears and JC Penney, Dixie Chicks, Amazon.com, Microsoft, NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, and anyone caught donating to Planned Parenthood! But I am against anyone trying to censor or ban any of them, except Planned Parenthood which should be banned for killing humans.
You have an inconsistency in your post in which you speak out against both boycotts and against outright bans on products simply because of the opinions of the CEO's or owners of a company. Yet you also said this:
"If you don’t like his personal policy, don’t eat there. Problem solved." Is that not a boycott?
Personally, I think boycotts are fair, fine, and just.... so long as people understand fully why they're doing it.
And the reason I have no problem with boycotts is that those owners and/or CEO's make plenty of money (no grudge here, I love capitalism) which they in turn donate to causes I find repugnant (therein lies the problem). They have every right to donate to whatever crappy cause they desire, BUT...I don't want ANY of MY money to go to those causes if I can help it, hence my boycott.
Let the gays boycott Chick-Fil-A if they wish. I'm still boycotting Sears and JC Penney, Dixie Chicks, Amazon.com, Microsoft, NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, and anyone caught donating to Planned Parenthood! But I am against anyone trying to censor or ban any of them, except Planned Parenthood which should be banned for killing humans.
↳
Lauren - July 28th, 2012 at 12:15 PM
You're going to end up having to only eat food from your own garden and make all your own clothing if you want to boycott every company you disagree with. Have fun with that! Who do you buy your fuel from for your car(s)? Have you ever looked into what they are all about? And where do you buy your clothing? From a company that uses young children in their factories or pays their workers pennies? I guess it's only worth boycotting if they support gay people, right? So many comments on this thread represent why I'm embarrassed to be associated with Christians in America.
↳
Morgan - July 28th, 2012 at 3:56 PM
Lauren, this attitude is exactly the problem. "If it's too hard to do it 100%, don't do it at all." The difference between your attitude and his is that the CEO of this company CHOSE to donate millions of dollars openly to support Prop 8 (when I started my personal boycott) and CHOSE to announce publicly his beliefs. He is welcome to have his beliefs and I am welcome to not donate towards them. Yes, there are other awful acts being done by corporations like the gas companies, but right now he CHOSE to publicly announce, as the public face of his company, what he believes and is open about the fact that profits from Chick-fil-A go to organizations with similar views. It is not possible to know what atrocious acts are happening with each company in the world - so yes, you are right, it is not possible to act completely free (at least not easily in our current society) but when someone knows what he is doing and what repercussions will come as a result, than he is opening himself and therefore his company up to scrutiny.
Jess - July 28th, 2012 at 12:00 PM
Amazing and exactly what I have been feeling.
Kelly - July 28th, 2012 at 12:05 PM
Jen Hatmaker, you read my mind. This is exactly what I wanted to say today. Thank you for voicing it so well.
Justin Wallace - July 28th, 2012 at 12:06 PM
Thank you! I have so much to repent of and only pray that God can continue to mold my heart to be more like His.
Rachel - July 28th, 2012 at 12:08 PM
This makes my heart soar! Everytime I read something like this, I get this overwhelming to go out and change the world....this is definitely what it's all about.
Angie Vallejo - July 28th, 2012 at 12:12 PM
Jen -- couldn't have said it any better! As a fellow Austinite, how can we reach others in our area and bring them toward Christ if we don't follow His lead? We are to be IN this world, loving others as Christ told us to do, not be OF the world, doing as they do. Again, we well said. Thanks!
Lauren - July 28th, 2012 at 12:17 PM
Thank you for this. I find it a constant struggle to be associated with Christians. You have given me hope that there are more people like me out there, people who realize that Christianity is about so much more than opposing things like gay marriage. Thank you.
Caitlin - July 28th, 2012 at 12:22 PM
SO glad to know I'm not the only one who wants to just hide from it all...Thank you for putting it so succinctly and MATURELY...this MAKES SENSE, unlike all the dumb bashing going on. Count me in; I'm coming down.
TJA - July 28th, 2012 at 12:23 PM
Beautifully written. Thank you for this post. You are very succinct in what you say, and your prose is perfect. Bless you.
Ronne - July 28th, 2012 at 12:27 PM
I'll be in the kitchen cooking up some comfort food for those wounded in the war. And I'll grab some rosemary and put it in my pocket, so that it might season every word that comes from my mouth.
Thanks for your blog. Thanks for your ministry. Thanks for being willing.
Thanks for your blog. Thanks for your ministry. Thanks for being willing.
Bethany - July 28th, 2012 at 12:29 PM
My only concern is that what Jen said will be read incorrectly of her intentions (or at least what I believe are her intentions based on what I read). There are two places that we as Christians get caught up. The first place is that it's all about love and therefore we are to accept everyone no matter what their choices are. We have no right to say what is wrong because Christians aren't to judge others. I do not agree with this particular vein of thought though. God gave us very specific guidelines about right and wrong. Even in the Christian world we hear that regularly. Don't you judge me, only God can judge my actions. But God did in fact tell us to lovingly bring our Christian brother's sins to their attention. We are called to judge an action as sin, but we are NOT called to condemn for that sin. I think that is where the issue falls. We don't judge (a misused term I think) the actions as sin, we seem to judge the action harshly and then condemn the person just as harshly. After that condemnation, it becomes so easy to forget the fact that we are dealing with people, real people that plain and simple, need Christ's love. The Pharisees didn't just judge sin, they condemned people and often it was with a power play in mind - sound familiar? The other extreme side of Christianity are those who see all moral issues as a battle where we must crush the opponent with TRUTH! Never mind that God's Truth can stand on its own without us helping it along. For some reason there is a need to throw every law and commandment at the sinners of the world without the gospel. And laws without the gospel (that show how Christ loved the sinner) is empty. All this method does is fuel their fire of Christians being hateful. Then there are the non-Christians. Those that hate us for "hating" them. There is a reason that this is perceived as it is BUT my disagreeing with you is not me hating you. Yes, according to God's law, homosexuality is a sin. That is the Truth that I subscribe to and I have that right. But here's the thing, I also believe that lying, cheating, stealing, sex before marriage, gossip, cruelty, and slander are sins. Some are even sins that I have to deal with in my heart with my God (Gasp! I have sins to deal with just as those others that I say are sinning against God). That's what makes God's law beautiful though, we are all sinners saved by grace. We are ALL on the same level. And lest you think, as a Christian you have transcended that sin level, remember that you "rejoin" the rest of us sinners every time your heart isn't in line with God will. And non-Christians, are you being hateful because you disagree with me? I don't think so. Not until you start saying I have no right to believe the way I do. Not until you call me a bigot, or hateful, or unloving. Then, yes, I do feel that you have forgotten that I am a person, that behind all of these issues, are people. And that is always at the bottom of this muck, real people with real hearts that need Christ's love.
Patricia - July 28th, 2012 at 12:43 PM
I agree with most of what you say. I wanna crawl in the basement with you, I am Muslim. Until you have an understanding of Islam, please dont insinuate a Muslim should not be a business owner. i left Christianity because its so hypocritical! We are to love all God makes, This , all this chick fil a thing just proves to me i made the right choice. I cant worship a human, thats in violation of the first commandment.Then of course... Gay bashing is not loving everything God created. You dont have to bring home what you dont like, but dont have to glorify it the way it has been. I have gay friends, they are born that way in their heads and desires. Its not like I can turn and say I desire women(like that will happen), Its not my cup of tea... If I were born to desire women I couldnt change. I was brought up in an atheist home,,,, jokes on MOM I am a Muslim. So if you dont mind, I am a creature God almighty created and would like to crawl in the basement with you on this one. Its driving me crazy.
Laurie - July 28th, 2012 at 12:43 PM
It's exhausting! Thank you for reading my mind and my heart and putting it into words that I wasn't able to find.
Heather - July 28th, 2012 at 1:04 PM
Love your post today. :)
Erin - July 28th, 2012 at 1:20 PM
I sense many of my friends won't read this article...interesting! A few of them jumped on the hate band wagon in record time!
Jennifer - July 28th, 2012 at 1:26 PM
I love the basement - in mine right now - 65 degrees while it rages in the 100's outside. I too have been through a couple of tornadoes. Its an awesome endurance and to know that its just wind. Breath. How often could our words we speak be compared to a tornado in their destruction? Same breath in each.
Keep going. And if you would, grab a ChickFilA sauce for my nuggets too....
Keep going. And if you would, grab a ChickFilA sauce for my nuggets too....
dannysue jaynes - July 28th, 2012 at 1:35 PM
Agreeing with Bethany (above) But, however, I am hoping all of you that hold to this lukewarm version of holiness will remain in your basement, while those of us who hold to a Biblical world view,ie. "Truth Project" Focus on the Family, will continue stand and promote the Biblical moral standards communicated through God's Word. To genuinely love someone is not to over look their sin that separates them from God but to share with them the truth in hopes that they will repent and turn to God....Romans 1:32..........Sue
↳
jim owens - July 28th, 2012 at 1:57 PM
Amen. WE WILL BE JUDGED BY THE WORD NOT BY FACEBOOK!
Sher Sutherland - July 28th, 2012 at 1:46 PM
Thank you for speaking so eloquently what so many if us feel. And you will be heard, which means we will also. Let's love, not give people reasons to hate.
jim owens - July 28th, 2012 at 2:14 PM
Gods Word is our guide book and it says it is sin, therefore it is sin. Love would compel us to confront sin not to justify it.
Amy - July 28th, 2012 at 2:25 PM
Bless your heart, Jen Hatmaker.
Leigh - July 28th, 2012 at 3:04 PM
Yes! Exactly! Amen!
Deborah - July 28th, 2012 at 3:23 PM
Thank you for sharing this. I don't usually have a hard time putting into words what I feel. Over this situation, I was so ashamed of the religious right, I couldn't even express myself. Thank you for doing so.
Jan - July 28th, 2012 at 3:54 PM
I'm retreating from the storm because, quite frankly, it was killing my soul.....breaking my heart...and I could not truly love others in the midst of it. I quit. See you downstairs. :)
Loretta - July 28th, 2012 at 4:25 PM
I'm coming down!!!
Lisa Yanarella - July 28th, 2012 at 4:27 PM
Didn't Paul say: "It is not for us to judge those who are outside the church" (I. Cor. 5:12)?
Then, why do we as Christians spend so much time doing that?
And, since Jesus clearly told us that His kingdom is not of this world, why does it seem that many modern-day Pharisees are trying to legislate morality?
Are we trying to share the Gospel of Grace - or of legalism?
Are we trying to share the Good News, or a dose of in-your-face-judgement?
Are our efforts best spent on culture wars -- or on living lives characterized by love?
Then, why do we as Christians spend so much time doing that?
And, since Jesus clearly told us that His kingdom is not of this world, why does it seem that many modern-day Pharisees are trying to legislate morality?
Are we trying to share the Gospel of Grace - or of legalism?
Are we trying to share the Good News, or a dose of in-your-face-judgement?
Are our efforts best spent on culture wars -- or on living lives characterized by love?
paige betterton - July 28th, 2012 at 5:40 PM
What my hear truly says. I just didn't have the words to put to it! thanks for doing it so well!!!!
Debby - July 28th, 2012 at 5:47 PM
Thank you for writing what I have had difficulty forming for the past several days. I will share on FB to share my heart with my LGBT friends and family.
hippocritz - July 28th, 2012 at 5:47 PM
What a load of twaddle. By disavowing any responsibility here and stepping out of the dialogue while supporting this business, you only *pretend* to wash your hands. That goes for each one of you. If you support tolerance so much as Jesus actually did, why would you still support an intolerant bigot?
No prayers from anyone for Dan Christy to change his ways, I see, although I expect a few of you to pray for me. Just always remember that your dollars spent go to organizations advocate keeping gays from their legal rights and recognition as committed couples within society. If you're OK with that, recognize it and say so. Just don't try to imagine that you don't. .
Actions speak louder than words, and if you just stay silent and keep paying this funnel to anti-gay groups, all you are doing is blowing around hot air. Nothing you say or how much you say it will matter.
No shortage of hypocrisy here, ever. How sad, and what a good reason, on its own, for 50K people a week to leave the church.
No prayers from anyone for Dan Christy to change his ways, I see, although I expect a few of you to pray for me. Just always remember that your dollars spent go to organizations advocate keeping gays from their legal rights and recognition as committed couples within society. If you're OK with that, recognize it and say so. Just don't try to imagine that you don't. .
Actions speak louder than words, and if you just stay silent and keep paying this funnel to anti-gay groups, all you are doing is blowing around hot air. Nothing you say or how much you say it will matter.
No shortage of hypocrisy here, ever. How sad, and what a good reason, on its own, for 50K people a week to leave the church.
Steph - July 28th, 2012 at 6:06 PM
Karla Wasion - July 28th, 2012 at 6:07 PM
So good! Thank you!
Lizzie - July 28th, 2012 at 6:08 PM
Amen and AMEN! I've always felt that political activism had no place in the church. The government was far more corrupt in Jesus' day than ours is now. And yet Jesus only command was for us to go out and preach the gospel, make disciples, and baptize them. Nothing at all about fighting the government or attacking sinners.
It's all a heart issue. We can picket and yell until we are blue in the face. But, until people have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, they will not understand the things of God. Just as we didn't at one time. If anything, it will drive them away from God.
Our only job as a Christian is to love one another - including our enemies - and tell them of the hope and saving grace of Jesus Christ.
It's all a heart issue. We can picket and yell until we are blue in the face. But, until people have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, they will not understand the things of God. Just as we didn't at one time. If anything, it will drive them away from God.
Our only job as a Christian is to love one another - including our enemies - and tell them of the hope and saving grace of Jesus Christ.
Sue - July 28th, 2012 at 6:13 PM
like
C - July 28th, 2012 at 6:22 PM
Will pass on the nuggets, no Chick Fil A for me, but love your message. Totally confused by "organized religion", soooo many questions, but trying to have a relationship with Jesus.
↳
virginia - July 29th, 2012 at 5:48 PM
And that's what it is really all about :)
Lillian - July 28th, 2012 at 6:31 PM
Great post, come to the basement, We were created to love God, serve God and know God.
Missiy - July 28th, 2012 at 6:56 PM
And what is this world if we don't stand up for Jesus and all the things which are true from Jesus. I firmly believe in what chick-fil-a is doing. You go guys!!
Joy_F - July 28th, 2012 at 7:04 PM
Beautiful, loved it. Thank you.
Angela - July 28th, 2012 at 7:08 PM
You, my beautiful sister-in-Christ, ROCK!! (P.S. love the books too)
Miss Prissy - July 28th, 2012 at 7:43 PM
Your words are loud and clear, Jen. I haven't a basement in my home. Our big, bad storms are much different, as you well know, due to your years here in South Louisiana before your 8th through 12th grade years. I began to read the comments that followed your post and I quickly decided that your message to my heart could be quickly muddled by the opinions and it threw me into looking for my remote to change the channel, BUT WAIT!! This is a blog, not CNN, FOX, MSNBC or any other form of media that shoots out the story only to rile the listener into debates with the audience and anyone who will listen and respond to their solicited sensationalism and banter back and forth with them. I seriously cannot do it anymore, so I digress and dig deep. We all have opinions, morals, spiritual, and political beliefs. I chose to keep mine to myself these days. Why? Because I know that my opinions really aren't meant for the rest of the world to listen to or adhere to. I think your blog explains my feelings perfectly. I have gay friends and I LOVE them. I have friends that are on all sides of every political party and spiritual belief. I AM NOT their judge. Honestly, I am ecstatic that I have not been appointed that charge in life. So, here's the deal, Oatmeal...By the way, you look nothing like oatmeal, but from what I can remember, hugging you when you were a little girl, you smelled a whole lot like the Quaker Oats Instant Cinnamon Roll flavored packets. This blog speaks volumes! And I love you for being so capable of bringing it to the forefront. Minds and hearts are being changed by your words, Jen...and if not, they are tail-spinning on that great big old realization that what we THINK just may not be all about God's true agapé love that can only come from our Jesus who loved and accepted all without condition.
hannah - July 28th, 2012 at 9:24 PM
This was in my heart when talking to one of our students at youth camp last week. Thank you.
patrice - July 28th, 2012 at 10:29 PM
Jesus waged the biggest culture war of all
Steve, Sinner - Redeemed - July 28th, 2012 at 10:50 PM
Love, Love, Love those in need (and those not in need).
Love, Love, Love the sinners ( that would be everyone; especially self).
Love, Love, Love the homosexual.
DO NOT love the sin.
It will not help anyone to redefine what God has defined as sin.
We could also rewrite (or just ignore) the Ten Commandments but it will be to the detriment of all. No one is served by removing the “Bridge Out†sign just because some don’t like it.
You said “Jesus … was always in hot water with the religious folks for eating with sinners …â€.
I wonder if more of the hot water came from speaking out and telling the truth.
I am so glad Jesus didn’t go to the basement when the storm came.
One, not-so-humble question, isn’t a Prop 8 yard sign a form of civil discourse?
Love, Love, Love the sinners ( that would be everyone; especially self).
Love, Love, Love the homosexual.
DO NOT love the sin.
It will not help anyone to redefine what God has defined as sin.
We could also rewrite (or just ignore) the Ten Commandments but it will be to the detriment of all. No one is served by removing the “Bridge Out†sign just because some don’t like it.
You said “Jesus … was always in hot water with the religious folks for eating with sinners …â€.
I wonder if more of the hot water came from speaking out and telling the truth.
I am so glad Jesus didn’t go to the basement when the storm came.
One, not-so-humble question, isn’t a Prop 8 yard sign a form of civil discourse?
Suzie Lind - July 28th, 2012 at 10:52 PM
Seriously one of the best posts I've ever read...got me fired up! I'm in the basement with you!
Gregory Morales - July 28th, 2012 at 11:00 PM
This is not about the first amendment. This is about personal responsibility. This is about corporate responsibility. Why even bother having a PR person, if you really think you are entitled to a personal opinion that may cost you customers? Can't have both. It's bad business.
But mostly, I gotta say I love how you contradict yourself: by first stating "The gay community is ostracized entirely (oh, they’ve gotten the message alright), and Christianity has turned into white noise." And then stating "We hate that 25,000 people will die today of hunger and we’re arguing gay marriage again." You have NO PLACE to support something you cannot even begin to fathom, especially when you diminish the very struggle you seemingly sympathize with.
Just because you're a wife and mother with a legally-recognized, traditionally-formatted marriage does not mean that this debate is unimportant to those of us who aren't so lucky or able to have the things we've long been fighting for. You were blessed with those things, by virtue of the legal benefits endowed upon your own sexual orientation and the marriage(s) you're entitled to. We don't need your sympathy or apathy. We need people who know in their hearts, minds, souls, and bodies the difference between what is right and what's being done to gays is wrong - to stand up with us. Not sit in church and nod their heads when they hear "Love the Sinner. Hate the sin." We don't sit around talking about how your cheating husbands, or gambling brothers, or kleptomaniac daughters, or sex offender sons are sinners. It doesn't matter. We're all in this together.
Or if you'd like, go down to your basement. The rest of us know you're just sticking your head in the sand.
But mostly, I gotta say I love how you contradict yourself: by first stating "The gay community is ostracized entirely (oh, they’ve gotten the message alright), and Christianity has turned into white noise." And then stating "We hate that 25,000 people will die today of hunger and we’re arguing gay marriage again." You have NO PLACE to support something you cannot even begin to fathom, especially when you diminish the very struggle you seemingly sympathize with.
Just because you're a wife and mother with a legally-recognized, traditionally-formatted marriage does not mean that this debate is unimportant to those of us who aren't so lucky or able to have the things we've long been fighting for. You were blessed with those things, by virtue of the legal benefits endowed upon your own sexual orientation and the marriage(s) you're entitled to. We don't need your sympathy or apathy. We need people who know in their hearts, minds, souls, and bodies the difference between what is right and what's being done to gays is wrong - to stand up with us. Not sit in church and nod their heads when they hear "Love the Sinner. Hate the sin." We don't sit around talking about how your cheating husbands, or gambling brothers, or kleptomaniac daughters, or sex offender sons are sinners. It doesn't matter. We're all in this together.
Or if you'd like, go down to your basement. The rest of us know you're just sticking your head in the sand.
Suzann - July 28th, 2012 at 11:06 PM
I feel you have just ripped me a new one. I have made no judgments. I have offered some sites that say they have made the situation worse by not telling the truth or by twisting the truth. I feel you have JUDGED me wrongly.
Dawn - July 28th, 2012 at 11:07 PM
I will be joining you too, But do you have the Chic Fil A sauce for the nugget platter.
Lara - July 28th, 2012 at 11:32 PM
Thank you so much for posting this! Enough already... How is it that people who push tolerance are so judgmental
Kevin - July 28th, 2012 at 11:33 PM
Thank you for this wonderfully written piece. You've expressed with words what my heart feels on a daily basis, and it extend to so many things beyond Chic-fil-a. I've been worried how close Christian friends would view me if I head voiced an opinion such as this, but my confidence is renewed because of your words and I'm sharing this with my friends.
Geoffrey - July 29th, 2012 at 12:09 AM
Weel spoken, well thought out. I just didn't know I lived in the basement. I would feel priveleged to join you there.
You may want to check out the book UNCHRISTIAN which speaks to the many reasons, and many are spoken of here, that we as Christians (Christ followers) turn the world off and away. Thanks.
You may want to check out the book UNCHRISTIAN which speaks to the many reasons, and many are spoken of here, that we as Christians (Christ followers) turn the world off and away. Thanks.
Dominique - July 29th, 2012 at 3:15 AM
Whew! I'm sure glad you have a basement I can hide in. All I wanna do is love people. Thats all I'm commissioned to do... love people and be an encourager.
Reagan - July 29th, 2012 at 4:07 AM
Jen, I hesitate to comment on this post because you and I approach a number of things very differently -- yet I know we are both believers and don't question that one bit. I want you to know up front that I do respect your thoughts and your passion for following Christ.
However, I will NEVER, EVER be a basement dweller. That is not how God has gifted me and shaped me to be. I'm so very frustrated by professing Christians who seem to think one size fits all. I am an activist and a prayer warrior. Whether we like it or not, the 'culture wars' in our nation are very real, and I think we are remiss to think that hanging out in the basement just loving on each other by candlelight is going to accomplish a great deal. I don't know about you, but I can only handle so many verses of Kum-ba-ya. After that, this tee-totaler will be seeking out those margaritas!
I understand what you are saying in this post. . . and I don't doubt your sincerity. However, it seems that you are trying to get all believers to feel, think, and act a certain way -- like you perhaps. And that's just a ridiculously ludicrous ideal. First of all, it assumes that you know best for all of us -- and secondly, that you are responding perfectly in situations like this. I'm sure having people describe you as 'anointed' does little to diffuse that mentality. (I personally think that word is very over-used and very presumptuous, as it seems to connote that 'this is how God wants ALL His children to be.' And that's just not a place I'm comfortable going.)
That said, I get frustrated when I see believers sitting on the sidelines and NOT getting actively involved in the fight for our freedoms that SO MANY of our friends and family members have died for through the years. I view that freedom as a precious gift that affords us unprecedented opportunities to share the Gospel and the love of Christ will people of all ages and life situations. However, I've long since come to understand that not everyone is called to be an activist -- and some, quite frankly, are just TERRIBLE at it!
One thing that concerns me about your post is that there seems to be a subtle, underlying viewpoint that (a) would judge or condemn those of us who ARE activist types, and (b) would minimize or possibly even demonize the hard work of those in ministries such as Focus on the Family, AFA, FamilyLife, Exodus International, and the ACLJ -- just to name a few. I know people in each of these organizations and have absolutely no doubt of their heart and calling to serve in such influential roles. Having had dealings with each of these organizations, I can tell you with 100% certainty that they do NOT stand for hate of anyone. This is a belief that has been perpetuated by the gay community and the liberal media -- because it fits the narrative they're so diligently working to create. As believers, we have every right -- and, I believe, responsibility -- to defend our brothers and sisters who are being slandered and grossly mischaracterized as hatemongers and evil-doers.
I absolutely understand the need for civil discourse, caring conversation, and deep discussion. However, I also see the value and need for spirited debate and earnest searching for truth. In all things we, as believers, should strive for truth and love and grace . . . but we must speak out to protect our freedoms of speech, assembly, and religion, which I view as fundamental to future of this republic.
As for homosexuality itself, I can tell you that as a licensed counselor and family therapist, I have worked with a number of clients struggling with same-sex attraction -- and have seen several go on to live in monogamous heterosexual marriages that fit within their own moral values and, more importantly, their spiritual beliefs as learned in Scripture. Regardless of how many people work over-time to convince us that homosexuality is NOT a choice, there are many examples out there which bear strong indication that it, in fact, IS a choice. The biggest lie of the 21st century is that one is gay simply because they have feelings of same-sex attraction. And Satan is the father of lies. Having same-sex attraction does not make one gay any more than admiring and drooling over my friend's sportscar makes me a thief. Do I believe that there is a genetic component to same-sex attraction? Very likely. Do I believe God can bring healing and redemption to those who act on that attraction? Absolutely! With God all things are possible to those who believe.
As for those in this comment thread who equate sexuality with personhood, let me just say that each of us is -- hopefully -- far more than our sexuality. The culture in which we live has exponentially magnified the importance of this aspect of life -- and largely in unhealthy ways.
Jen, please take special care to not paint with such broad strokes. I think that God can use basement dwellers AND Christian activists to advance His Kingdom. And as I grow in my relationship with Christ, I'm learning more and more that both types require a generous measure of boldness, courage, wisdom, and discernment.
May we each continue to serve Christ as He leads us, and may our words be always seasoned with grace and saturated in the hope we have in Him.
However, I will NEVER, EVER be a basement dweller. That is not how God has gifted me and shaped me to be. I'm so very frustrated by professing Christians who seem to think one size fits all. I am an activist and a prayer warrior. Whether we like it or not, the 'culture wars' in our nation are very real, and I think we are remiss to think that hanging out in the basement just loving on each other by candlelight is going to accomplish a great deal. I don't know about you, but I can only handle so many verses of Kum-ba-ya. After that, this tee-totaler will be seeking out those margaritas!
I understand what you are saying in this post. . . and I don't doubt your sincerity. However, it seems that you are trying to get all believers to feel, think, and act a certain way -- like you perhaps. And that's just a ridiculously ludicrous ideal. First of all, it assumes that you know best for all of us -- and secondly, that you are responding perfectly in situations like this. I'm sure having people describe you as 'anointed' does little to diffuse that mentality. (I personally think that word is very over-used and very presumptuous, as it seems to connote that 'this is how God wants ALL His children to be.' And that's just not a place I'm comfortable going.)
That said, I get frustrated when I see believers sitting on the sidelines and NOT getting actively involved in the fight for our freedoms that SO MANY of our friends and family members have died for through the years. I view that freedom as a precious gift that affords us unprecedented opportunities to share the Gospel and the love of Christ will people of all ages and life situations. However, I've long since come to understand that not everyone is called to be an activist -- and some, quite frankly, are just TERRIBLE at it!
One thing that concerns me about your post is that there seems to be a subtle, underlying viewpoint that (a) would judge or condemn those of us who ARE activist types, and (b) would minimize or possibly even demonize the hard work of those in ministries such as Focus on the Family, AFA, FamilyLife, Exodus International, and the ACLJ -- just to name a few. I know people in each of these organizations and have absolutely no doubt of their heart and calling to serve in such influential roles. Having had dealings with each of these organizations, I can tell you with 100% certainty that they do NOT stand for hate of anyone. This is a belief that has been perpetuated by the gay community and the liberal media -- because it fits the narrative they're so diligently working to create. As believers, we have every right -- and, I believe, responsibility -- to defend our brothers and sisters who are being slandered and grossly mischaracterized as hatemongers and evil-doers.
I absolutely understand the need for civil discourse, caring conversation, and deep discussion. However, I also see the value and need for spirited debate and earnest searching for truth. In all things we, as believers, should strive for truth and love and grace . . . but we must speak out to protect our freedoms of speech, assembly, and religion, which I view as fundamental to future of this republic.
As for homosexuality itself, I can tell you that as a licensed counselor and family therapist, I have worked with a number of clients struggling with same-sex attraction -- and have seen several go on to live in monogamous heterosexual marriages that fit within their own moral values and, more importantly, their spiritual beliefs as learned in Scripture. Regardless of how many people work over-time to convince us that homosexuality is NOT a choice, there are many examples out there which bear strong indication that it, in fact, IS a choice. The biggest lie of the 21st century is that one is gay simply because they have feelings of same-sex attraction. And Satan is the father of lies. Having same-sex attraction does not make one gay any more than admiring and drooling over my friend's sportscar makes me a thief. Do I believe that there is a genetic component to same-sex attraction? Very likely. Do I believe God can bring healing and redemption to those who act on that attraction? Absolutely! With God all things are possible to those who believe.
As for those in this comment thread who equate sexuality with personhood, let me just say that each of us is -- hopefully -- far more than our sexuality. The culture in which we live has exponentially magnified the importance of this aspect of life -- and largely in unhealthy ways.
Jen, please take special care to not paint with such broad strokes. I think that God can use basement dwellers AND Christian activists to advance His Kingdom. And as I grow in my relationship with Christ, I'm learning more and more that both types require a generous measure of boldness, courage, wisdom, and discernment.
May we each continue to serve Christ as He leads us, and may our words be always seasoned with grace and saturated in the hope we have in Him.
Amber - July 29th, 2012 at 4:23 AM
Amen Reagan You couldn't have said it better. I feel its said that are beating us Christians up and all fingers are on us . Inside of relizing its wrong to some degree they change the attention and out it on us. Yes God loves us all and we should all love one another but that Doesn't mean I have to go along with Gays and say its ok I can pray for them. My heart hurts so bad because I was brought up Christian I know right from wrong . All gays are doing is bashing us for not understanding.
Reagan - July 29th, 2012 at 4:25 AM
Here's a perfectly-worded post that summarizes WHY I believe we must act, speak out, and stand up: http://publiccatholic.com/2012/07/27/italian-religious-liberty-expert-worries-us-on-path-to-anti-christian-violence/R
Daniel - July 29th, 2012 at 5:33 AM
I love this post and the perspective on loving others, treating those who disagree with respect and extending grace to all... but, where I struggle in all this is: How do we reconcile the need to show / extend LOVE and not confuse it with condoning certain behaviors / actions that the Bible seems to speak out against? As an example, if my friend is an adulterer (or thief or whatever) and I just turn my head and go down into the basement, am I really showing him/her love? Jesus did not condemn the prostitute but He did confront her sin when He told her to "Go and sin no more."
Note: I am not saying this trying to be cute or slant the discussion towards either side. I am saying this as an honest issue that I am struggling with. I personally have gay friends and family members whom I love but I also understand the Bible (at least I think I do, somewhat) and it convicts me. Jesus appeared to GO, not hide and dwell in the shadows while the storm raged on around him. Yes, he avoided politics (and this issue has certainly become politicized) but as in my example above, He loved the sinner but condemned the the sin so it perplexes me how we should respond.
Note: I am not saying this trying to be cute or slant the discussion towards either side. I am saying this as an honest issue that I am struggling with. I personally have gay friends and family members whom I love but I also understand the Bible (at least I think I do, somewhat) and it convicts me. Jesus appeared to GO, not hide and dwell in the shadows while the storm raged on around him. Yes, he avoided politics (and this issue has certainly become politicized) but as in my example above, He loved the sinner but condemned the the sin so it perplexes me how we should respond.
Jan - July 29th, 2012 at 8:21 AM
This "In the Basement" needs to be plastered on every channel on TV -----and sent to every
e-mail possible, and hope people will take time out of their TV trash watching and watch something
that might help us put the world back together......thanks for sharing !
e-mail possible, and hope people will take time out of their TV trash watching and watch something
that might help us put the world back together......thanks for sharing !
Amos - July 29th, 2012 at 8:29 AM
Here is an interesting video that might help illustrate how the world views us. http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=0BFJBFNU
I'd like to join y'all in the basement and pray for revival. Because it is evident that we need it! It gives purpose to the basement and "riding out this storm."
I'd like to join y'all in the basement and pray for revival. Because it is evident that we need it! It gives purpose to the basement and "riding out this storm."
Name - July 29th, 2012 at 8:57 AM
So you are just going to go to your "basement" and sit around while the storm passes? Isn't this how prayer was taken out of our schools b/c Christians NEVER stand up for the WORD OF GOD? I'm not out spewing hate towards gays. I really could care less who my neighbor is with or married to or what a CEO of a company thinks or does. I'm not saying lets shout HATE to gay people. But I'm most certainly saying that as Christians we must support Biblical principles and stop sitting the basement doing nothing as our country is taking away from us by the liberal left.
↳
Tray - July 29th, 2012 at 10:04 AM
Name...if that is your real name....'in the Basement' is a METAPHOR. It's not turning a blind eye, doing nothing, retreating to an ineffective place of isolation. It is "living above the fray" and not being drawn into pithy arguments that divide. The basement is a place that DOES support biblical principals like loving those who Jesus said love, serving the least, reposturing our lives to be "Good News" so that we still be a legitimate part of the conversation. Right now, Followers of Jesus are a punchline, we have lost our saltiness in a world that caters to those with no taste. How can we be effective at making disciples is no one believes that we believe what we say we believe? I don't even believe that we believe what we say we believe...otherwise, we would not be known simply by what we don't tolerate or hate. If believers believed the teachings of Jesus, we would spend our lives loving and helping, including, advocating, protecting, adopting, fighting injustices, giving away, laying down our lives daily, parenting and staying married. How can we say we have the corner on the market of marriage when the divorce rate of those claiming the name of Jesus is the same as those who don't? Same reason why I wouldn't go to a divorced marriage counselor.
Could it be that our country is being taken away by Jesus? Maybe he is sick and tired of blessing a nation that merely consumed the blessing. God told Abraham that I will bless you so that you might bless others. The good old US of A doesn't have the market on Jesus. Maybe God is using Prayer in School to wake us up to say...."Stop bringing me meaningless offerings, I cannot bear your worthless assemblies, I hate all your pomp and circumstance, they have become a burden to me. When you pray, I hide my eyes from you...and when you offer many prayers, I am not even listening."
Maybe that's it, maybe God just wants us to SHUT UP about Prayer in Schools and actually pray in earnest, seek His Kingdom, and actually DO what He said DO.
Could it be that our country is being taken away by Jesus? Maybe he is sick and tired of blessing a nation that merely consumed the blessing. God told Abraham that I will bless you so that you might bless others. The good old US of A doesn't have the market on Jesus. Maybe God is using Prayer in School to wake us up to say...."Stop bringing me meaningless offerings, I cannot bear your worthless assemblies, I hate all your pomp and circumstance, they have become a burden to me. When you pray, I hide my eyes from you...and when you offer many prayers, I am not even listening."
Maybe that's it, maybe God just wants us to SHUT UP about Prayer in Schools and actually pray in earnest, seek His Kingdom, and actually DO what He said DO.
↳
Reagan - July 29th, 2012 at 12:35 PM
And maybe not. I think we all need to be careful putting words in God's mouth. After all, we all have feet of clay whether we're in the basement or on the front lines of this spiritual battle.
↳
Traytra - July 29th, 2012 at 3:14 PM
Those aren't my words. That's scripture. Isaiah 1, Matthew 6
↳
Tray - July 29th, 2012 at 3:19 PM
↳
Reagan - July 29th, 2012 at 10:11 PM
Yes, I get that. I apologize for not speaking clearly. I am very familiar with Scripture. I was actually referring to the 'SHUT UP' paraphrase at the end of your post, not the paragraph previous. I can certainly see why that would be confusing. I'll try to be more clear in future comments.
maggiemae - July 29th, 2012 at 9:38 AM
Thank you, Jen, for saying so eloquently what so many of us feel in our hearts.
D - July 29th, 2012 at 9:50 AM
As a Christian who believes marriage is between one man and one woman, I'm not trying to battle homosexuality, but would rather find a way to keep the traditions of my Christian faith while letting homosexuals have a relationship with their partner. Redefining marriage strikes so deep to the Christian faith, instead of redefining wouldn't a new word or phrase better describe the union between two people of the same sex?
E - July 29th, 2012 at 10:03 AM
Good for you for having an opinion. However, I think it's a terrible one, and I do not care to be in your "basement." Have fun down there. History is going to prove what a farce it is that we actually have to debate this issue at all and that people once that it was okay to deny rights to someone on the basis of "my religion says you are a sinner and my religion trumps your rights." I'm personally pissed off by the fact that everyone is not outraged by tired, old, bigoted opinions like this.
Denise - July 29th, 2012 at 11:12 AM
I have very mixed feelings about this hiding in the basement thing. I agree we do not need to rage at people. We need to love everyone, even those who disagree with us. We need to treat everyone with the dignity and respect they are entitled to because they are children of God. Name calling and demonizing our opponents offer no solutions.
That said, I will not hide in the basement and allow attacks on my faith and on my family to go unchallenged. I will stand up for the voiceless and the marginalized and speak loudly. The unborn, the disabled, the elderly, the sick need my voice. My children and my children's children need me to stand up for virtue. They need to have the freedom to live a faithfully Catholic life--not just on Sunday in church but every day in every aspect of their lives. I have much longer explanation up on my web site.
That said, I will not hide in the basement and allow attacks on my faith and on my family to go unchallenged. I will stand up for the voiceless and the marginalized and speak loudly. The unborn, the disabled, the elderly, the sick need my voice. My children and my children's children need me to stand up for virtue. They need to have the freedom to live a faithfully Catholic life--not just on Sunday in church but every day in every aspect of their lives. I have much longer explanation up on my web site.
Kiley Sanderson - July 29th, 2012 at 11:18 AM
Love it Jen. Honestly, I almost posted something to FB last night saying exactly the same thing. Way to go girl, from someone else who is completely over it. Everyone needs to stop hiding behind this like it's an issue. And if it is an issue, your battle with your God is your to own. Not mine.
Cheryl Lewis - July 29th, 2012 at 11:42 AM
Jen, absolutely beautifully expressed. What can I bring? (We southern girls know to bring SOMETHING when we arrive... even for a basement party!) Here is a blog post that I wrote on May 17th this year, long before the CFA brouhaha began. I think you'll find that we are kindred spirits: http://www.cheryllewis.com/?p=365
Kate - July 29th, 2012 at 1:50 PM
Wonderfully written! Heading to the basement to be sheltered from the storm
Ally - July 29th, 2012 at 2:18 PM
Your premise is incorrect, as others have stated many times. Mr. Cathy can have a personal opinion on gays. Believe me, gays are used to hearing personal opinions on our disgusting, sinful lifestyle every day and twice on Sunday. But when a company donates money to organizations who advocate real harm on us, our loved ones and friends, it should hardly be surprising that we might take our money elsewhere and encourage others to do the same. Mr. Cathy chose to shine a light on his company policy. People can choose to eat there or not, as you correctly stated. But it is dishonest to misrepresent the situation and then try to take the high road by taking your ball and going home.
↳
Rob Davis - July 30th, 2012 at 12:06 PM
Totally agree. It's not just that he has a personal opinion. It's his company's policies and actions that are explicitly opposed to equality that are "the point."
payton - July 29th, 2012 at 2:51 PM
what will you do when the Gay person comes into your basement with their "partner" holding hands w/each other?? then maybe a hug n kiss, then bring their partner to partner friends... where are you going to limit this... b/c you know this will soon happen
↳
payton - July 29th, 2012 at 2:59 PM
drunks don't bring their bottle of alcohol to christian gathering/church, or porn addicts don't bring their pornography books, what will you do when the homosexual bring their openly gay partner relationship to your basement gathering. I DO believe in LOVING LOVING LOVING the individual as a person, but we MUST respect GOD first
Elizabeth - July 29th, 2012 at 2:54 PM
I hope that hunkering down works out better for you and your kids than it did for the Christians in 1930s Germany.
↳
Denise - July 29th, 2012 at 3:22 PM
Exactly. If everyone hunkers down in the basement now we will all be hunkering down shortly. We will be holding our religious services in secret rooms, basements, caves, etc. Just like the early Christians, the Catholics of Elizabethan England, the Christians of the Soviet Union, the Catholics in 1920s Mexico, and today's Christians in China. Think it can't happen here? Take a look at Europe or Canada today. They have virtually wiped out every remnant of God in the public square. We in America are not far behind.
payton - July 29th, 2012 at 3:18 PM
dave above wrote that Paul's writing were homophobic, all scripture is GOD BREATHED, it is written by God through people so who is homophobic? 2 TIMOTHY 3:16(msg),Every part of Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, for showing people what is wrong in their lives, for correcting faults, and for teaching how to live right. NOT ONLY Paul but there are other scriptures to confirm what Paul wrote, meaning others wrote similar verses meaning the same about sin to bring confirmation so we are positive that it is Truth and how we are to discern/Judge sin righteously.
Ford1968 - July 29th, 2012 at 3:44 PM
This post misses one very, very important point. Anti-gay Christians, so called "side b" or "side x" congregations, are doing real harm to real people. They are engaging in emotional and spiritual abuse. Full stop. This is not a simple "difference of opinion". It is a moral issue. How many more LGBT brothers and sisters are we going to see harmed before we stand up and say something. So as much as I agree and have faith that Jesus is working in all of our lives, I also believe that Jesus works through me in the lives of others. It is not OK for me to hang out in the basement and watch as others inflict harm on the gay community. That is a cowardly way to ignore a moral imperative.
Kathy - July 29th, 2012 at 5:13 PM
Thanks for this post. I find it unfair that over the years many who call themselves 'evangelical Christians' have called for boycotts of businesses but now are having a fit over the boycott of CFA. You can't have it both ways, people. If "we" are going to use boycotts then why should we be outraged when "they" use them. This is crazy.
C - July 29th, 2012 at 6:33 PM
Thank you for this. As a gay young adult who left the church many years ago after feeling alienated and betrayed, I think I'm ready to head down to the basement.
↳
payton - July 29th, 2012 at 7:38 PM
C, MANY many people leave the church b/c they are alienated and betrayed, and NOT b/c they are Gay, I think most people look at whatever 'issue' they have and assume that is why, anyone that doesn't blend into their mold get's the cold shoulder. Some churches have cliques and if you don't bow to the leadership you're out. I wish everyone would stop thinking it's just a GAY thing. I DO believe homosexuality is a sin but why would I care I don't even know YOU, I'm only speaking what God's Word says and standing on HIS instructions for us to 'teach each other' what sins are. Besides that, I LOVE you unless you are mean to me. So why would I as a Christian HATE you personally, I believe we Christians are being JUDGED b/c you(and others) assume so much, you just want to focus on the gay and forget that TONS of people have been rejected by the Church for various reasons.
↳
Ally - July 29th, 2012 at 10:20 PM
C "wants to focus on the gay" because he or she IS gay. What on earth are you trying to accomplish by belittling his or her struggle with the church, especially when this issue and blog post directly address both homosexuality and religion? People bring their own experiences to the table, and it is incredibly presumptuous and cruel for you to attempt to direct this poster's response because you don't feel it was broad enough to include everyone who has ever been ostracized.
↳
payton - July 29th, 2012 at 10:36 PM
Ally it is not presumptious and cruel, maybe YOU are being presumptious cruel, and JUDGEMENTAL b/c you jumped to defend b4 you clearly read what I was trying to say... you didn't get what I was saying... there may be too much focus on Gay b/c MANY people have issues at church and they're are Not gay so maybe people that are Gay may be misinterpreting what is going on and should try again, maybe it wasn't b/c they are gay maybe just simply cliquish snobby groups of people... and actually Christians are feeling hated by gay while we simply believe in the bible values, not in de-valueing the person... we don't even KNOW the person to hate them, it's the sin scriptures that is to be taught w/o feeling there's divisiveness going on at church, and God's transforming power that needs to be at work and learned about.
↳
Jen Hatmaker - July 30th, 2012 at 12:03 AM
OK, Payton. You've made lots of your opinions clear on here. Time to wrap it up. You are welcome to post all your thoughts on your own blog from here on out, but this one is closed to you. Thank you.
↳
payton - July 30th, 2012 at 10:42 AM
thank you for letting me speak up for what is right here Jen, and yes I will leave this blog, but please take in what Christians are saying here too! I've been abused and rejected by the church and for years stayed in a pit of sorrow, BUT found others like me and not one of them was homosexual, I'm just saying, lots of people are hurt in christian gatherings and we canNOT hide in the basement, yes we can take time to heal but don't make it a long-term place, that would definitely be Satans joy.
Barbie - July 29th, 2012 at 7:39 PM
Love it!!! Love it!!!! Love it!!!!I'm already in the basement...do you see me?!! ;-)
Mary - July 29th, 2012 at 8:27 PM
I desperately needed this today...after a pretty rough day in the social networking world. Thank you for making it a bit easier for me :) Sometimes I feel slammed by both sides, the basement looks good right now. The priest at Mass today shared that instead of rushing to leave Mass after communion, we should want to stay and be in the presence of safety. The presence of Jesus. He said the world is scary, bad things sometimes happen and we HAVE to face it...but the sanctuary is a place we can be safe. The Sanctuary has to become my basement I have decided...it will give me strength to storm-chase :)
Lynn - July 29th, 2012 at 9:02 PM
Name - July 29th, 2012 at 9:22 PM
Jesus does not love the sin, but he loves the sinner. People should not have gay marriages. It is against God's laws and it grieves Him.
BK - July 29th, 2012 at 10:06 PM
Well said. Thank you. These are the words many of my friends have been trying to find.
Charles - July 29th, 2012 at 10:27 PM
I agree with you in spirit sister but unfortunately I think hiding or seeking refuge in the basement is exactly where Satan wants you. The times we live in are dark and Scripture promises us it will only get worse. If you need to duck into the basement to recharge for a little while then more power to you but don't stay there. WE, the body of Christ need to be out in the world sharing Christ's love but never apologizing for God's judgement. Don't fall into a false theology that's all "touchy, feeling, God loves everybody". It simply isn't Scriptural. We do need to love people to Christ but we must never, EVER shy away from calling sin a sin. Be blessed and don't stay down there too long!
↳
Name - July 30th, 2012 at 8:02 AM
Great post Charles
Jonnia Smith - July 29th, 2012 at 10:58 PM
Maybe instead of the basement, we should actually build that city on a hill and all move up there. The Light is desperately needed here.
Rachel - July 30th, 2012 at 1:08 AM
Thank you for posting this, Jen. As so many others have said, it put words to the things that have been in my heart for a while. I'll join you in the basement, not to hide, but to tackle the injustice and issues in our world in a way that doesn't involve bickering and name-calling and making too many people feel judged, hated, and ostracized. I pray that in the process, we'll be transformed more and more into the likeness of Jesus and learn what it means to follow Him and reflect His image to the world around us.
Rachel - July 30th, 2012 at 1:10 AM
Also...I read this blog today and thought you would appreciate it. Surely, this is what the bride of Christ should look like: http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2012/07/how-to-welcome-people-to-your-church/
Michelle - July 30th, 2012 at 2:00 AM
I'm in!
Melissa Frankenfield - July 30th, 2012 at 2:17 AM
Jen, while your resounding themes of "grace" and "God is love" are both accurate and appealing, it would appear as though you dismiss the value and the responsibility of Christians to culturally engage, even in the occasional war. What a luxury to run to the basement, munch on some nuggets, singing Kum Bay Ya and yet, had William Wilberforce abdicated to the "basement" , abolition of slavery might be a Facebook trending group to join today. While it's not sexy in today's emergent Christianity, there is a place for grace-filled activism or being old school "salt and light". As you rightly conceded, there are social ills (i.e. human trafficking, poverty) and then there is the egregious social ill you also failed to mention in the basement, "Abortion". These should grieve us and compel us to our knees, but then convict us to act within our power to bring the justice/righteousness within our sphere of influence. It is derelict of spiritual duty to do otherwise or simply ride out the storm in our basement. And frankly, it's lovely to frame Jesus in an "eating with lepers, healing blind people, petting sheep memory", but Jesus also presented - in the public square- culture-rocking truths- that left people hostile and murderously angry. His disciples did the same and were left as a model for advancing the gospel in all of its many implications, which extends beyond the popular (uncontroversial) ministries of let's say- feeding the poor in our urban soup kitchens. I challenge Christians NOT to run to the basement but to thoughtfully, graciously, ardently and tirelessly engage in our culture wars.
Moreover, it's frightening that even conservatives forget that "legislating our brand of morality" protects innocents from murder, children from predators, minorities from servitude or subjugation. Ironically, Ms. Hatmaker, churches like your husbands may be the next legislative target of liberal lawmakers who will insist that private religious organizations adopt an anti-discrimination policy (e.g. gay pastors welcome). Chick-Fil-A is just one notch in their intolerant tolerance belt. Staying in the basement presumes that the war won't oneday come to everyone hiding in the basement. . . and as Jeffferson pleaded, that's foolish hope since the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
Moreover, it's frightening that even conservatives forget that "legislating our brand of morality" protects innocents from murder, children from predators, minorities from servitude or subjugation. Ironically, Ms. Hatmaker, churches like your husbands may be the next legislative target of liberal lawmakers who will insist that private religious organizations adopt an anti-discrimination policy (e.g. gay pastors welcome). Chick-Fil-A is just one notch in their intolerant tolerance belt. Staying in the basement presumes that the war won't oneday come to everyone hiding in the basement. . . and as Jeffferson pleaded, that's foolish hope since the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
Elizabeth K - July 30th, 2012 at 9:33 AM
Thank you for this.
L Hunt - July 30th, 2012 at 10:31 AM
Thank you, thank you, thank you! As I was just reading an awesome (gay) friend's FB post, I thought to myself that LOVE might really help more than HATE! Our approach can really mean everything!
A silly little similar beat here....at Christmas I found myself nearly shouting "Merry Christmas" to the "Happy Holidayers".....that'll teach them! It's about Jesus -- especially when I ram it down their throats! ;o)
p.s.....your IN stalker nearly teared up when I saw you won't be at MOPS in Dallas next week! Guess, I'll just have to find an event of yours to attend elsewhere! Thanks for always telling with love
A silly little similar beat here....at Christmas I found myself nearly shouting "Merry Christmas" to the "Happy Holidayers".....that'll teach them! It's about Jesus -- especially when I ram it down their throats! ;o)
p.s.....your IN stalker nearly teared up when I saw you won't be at MOPS in Dallas next week! Guess, I'll just have to find an event of yours to attend elsewhere! Thanks for always telling with love
Jen - July 30th, 2012 at 10:36 AM
exactly...!
Courtney - July 30th, 2012 at 10:46 AM
Beautiful. You know what else is in the basement? Hope.
And that's why I'm going down there. Because I don't have much hope in snarky Facebook comments, picketing lines, or political ads. I have hope in Jesus and I'm pretty sure He's in the basement. So glad to join you.
And that's why I'm going down there. Because I don't have much hope in snarky Facebook comments, picketing lines, or political ads. I have hope in Jesus and I'm pretty sure He's in the basement. So glad to join you.
↳
twosox - July 30th, 2012 at 11:28 AM
There is certainly hope in Jesus! However, he would only go into the basement in order to tell you to get out. In the basement there is no hope. In the basement there is only fear, apathy, and silence in the face of evil. Apathy and silence make us complicit in evil:
"I know your works; you are neither cold nor hot. I wish that you were either cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I am about to spit you out of my mouth." Revelation 3:15-16
"I know your works; you are neither cold nor hot. I wish that you were either cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I am about to spit you out of my mouth." Revelation 3:15-16
Gloria Litt - July 30th, 2012 at 12:31 PM
Hi Jen,
Thank you for your thoughtful post. I can appreciate your perspective. I've recently been introduced to you and ANC through your book "Seven." It's a great read that's challenging me and some of the matters of practice in my own faith, which has a very long history of social justice and tikkun olam.
This Chick Fil A situation has really touched me and a lot of people in my life. I understand wanting to back away from the vitriol and name calling. I'm right there with you. I don't like the fighting (well most of the time. I won't deny that I'm somewhat of a firecracker.)
But fighting and taking up the fight are not necessarily synonymous. I think the "basement" is a great place to take a moment to reflect, regroup, and take up the fight for justice. I feel confident that the men and women who organized the Montgomery Bus Boycott with Mrs. Parks spent a good amount of time in church basements. As did the men and women who helped Dr. King and Medgar Evers in their fight for civil rights and justice for the African American community and our country.
Here's the thing, This is about realizing that gay rights = civil rights. We are not a country of total equality. We are a country who still marginalizes its citizens, and in this debate we're talking about the LBGT community. Being gay is not a matter of opinion. It's not a philosophical quandary. It's state of being for millions of people. It is unchangeable. It is as inherent has eye color and height. However, groups that Chick Fil A's foundation supports want to legislate that some of our citizens not be granted full rights afforded the rest of our people. They tell the LGBT community that they are illegitimate, they are 2nd class, they are less than worthy of those rights and freedoms afforded to the heterosexual community. This is what we should be talking about, even while we're hiding out in the basement. Until we make LGBT issues equal to all other issues of civil rights, there will be no equality in this country.
I'll close with a favorite piece of scripture from the New Testament: Matthew 25:40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’"
Thank you for your thoughtful post. I can appreciate your perspective. I've recently been introduced to you and ANC through your book "Seven." It's a great read that's challenging me and some of the matters of practice in my own faith, which has a very long history of social justice and tikkun olam.
This Chick Fil A situation has really touched me and a lot of people in my life. I understand wanting to back away from the vitriol and name calling. I'm right there with you. I don't like the fighting (well most of the time. I won't deny that I'm somewhat of a firecracker.)
But fighting and taking up the fight are not necessarily synonymous. I think the "basement" is a great place to take a moment to reflect, regroup, and take up the fight for justice. I feel confident that the men and women who organized the Montgomery Bus Boycott with Mrs. Parks spent a good amount of time in church basements. As did the men and women who helped Dr. King and Medgar Evers in their fight for civil rights and justice for the African American community and our country.
Here's the thing, This is about realizing that gay rights = civil rights. We are not a country of total equality. We are a country who still marginalizes its citizens, and in this debate we're talking about the LBGT community. Being gay is not a matter of opinion. It's not a philosophical quandary. It's state of being for millions of people. It is unchangeable. It is as inherent has eye color and height. However, groups that Chick Fil A's foundation supports want to legislate that some of our citizens not be granted full rights afforded the rest of our people. They tell the LGBT community that they are illegitimate, they are 2nd class, they are less than worthy of those rights and freedoms afforded to the heterosexual community. This is what we should be talking about, even while we're hiding out in the basement. Until we make LGBT issues equal to all other issues of civil rights, there will be no equality in this country.
I'll close with a favorite piece of scripture from the New Testament: Matthew 25:40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’"
tiffani - July 30th, 2012 at 12:33 PM
ooooh. you had me until this: "Come on down to the basement. I ordered a Chick-Fil-A nugget platter."
I don't care if people continue to eat chic-fil-a. maybe they really love the waffle fries, and their kids love the toys, whatever... eat there if you want to, I sincerely don't care, even though I won't be giving them my money because I don't support their agenda. but it's ok, we can still be friends.
at the same time, when people then make statements like "I saport chic-fil-a" etc, or you saying you ordered a nugget platter, you are saying that you DO actively support the business owners' agenda. I agree that opinions shouldn't be legislated (CFA should be able to open wherever they want as long as their business practices aren't breaking any discrimination laws) but how is it supporting your gay friends, or "loving your gay neighbor" to "saport chic-fil-a"?? If you are staying in the basement, stay in the dang basement! you can't stay in the basement AND order nuggets. you can quietly slip out of the basement for a spicy chicken sandwich if you like, but I think if the basement is to remain truly neutral, then maybe your gay neighbors might appreciate it being a c-f-a free zone? some of them, anyway? because when they are told that they are sinners (more sinful than your regular old heterosexual sinners) and that someone "loves the sinner but hates the sin" -- for a gay person, there is no separating them from this particular "sin" it is how they were born/created. So, while I loved most of your post, and agreed wholeheartedly, you totally lost me at the end when you poked your head out of the basement to order those nuggets. can't have it both ways, my friend!
peace...
I don't care if people continue to eat chic-fil-a. maybe they really love the waffle fries, and their kids love the toys, whatever... eat there if you want to, I sincerely don't care, even though I won't be giving them my money because I don't support their agenda. but it's ok, we can still be friends.
at the same time, when people then make statements like "I saport chic-fil-a" etc, or you saying you ordered a nugget platter, you are saying that you DO actively support the business owners' agenda. I agree that opinions shouldn't be legislated (CFA should be able to open wherever they want as long as their business practices aren't breaking any discrimination laws) but how is it supporting your gay friends, or "loving your gay neighbor" to "saport chic-fil-a"?? If you are staying in the basement, stay in the dang basement! you can't stay in the basement AND order nuggets. you can quietly slip out of the basement for a spicy chicken sandwich if you like, but I think if the basement is to remain truly neutral, then maybe your gay neighbors might appreciate it being a c-f-a free zone? some of them, anyway? because when they are told that they are sinners (more sinful than your regular old heterosexual sinners) and that someone "loves the sinner but hates the sin" -- for a gay person, there is no separating them from this particular "sin" it is how they were born/created. So, while I loved most of your post, and agreed wholeheartedly, you totally lost me at the end when you poked your head out of the basement to order those nuggets. can't have it both ways, my friend!
peace...
Diana Odum - July 30th, 2012 at 1:10 PM
The Bible mentions the greedy in the same passage asf homosexuality and no one thinks of boycotting greedy companies, etc, etc.
Lily - July 30th, 2012 at 2:12 PM
Excellent post. I'll try not to dampen the party but I would encourage you to come out of the basement on the first Tuesday in November. I don't care how you vote (actually I do but I'll leave that for another conversation) I just care that you vote. Without the bludgeoning club of a Bible, Christians need to practice their freedom to vote. So please come out long enough for that, just don't put the love-fest on hold, keep it going.
Niles - July 30th, 2012 at 2:14 PM
I just "stumbled" upon your website (thank God!) and I love it. I hope there is still room in the basement and that there are plenty of supplies, like Abba's love, justice and mercy for the poor, community. ;-)
Shannon1981 - July 30th, 2012 at 2:43 PM
As someone deeply affected by this hate propaganda, I cannot go to the basement. I was sent to one of those awful ex gay places at the age of 12. I was beaten, put in solitary confinement, denied water to the point of serious dehydration, and, once, held in freezing cold water while being told "god hates homosexuals." Now, as an adult, a law abiding, hard working, tax paying citizen just like you, I am denied the same basic civil rights that my heterosexual counterparts enjoy, all for being gay. When I was bashed in 2004 and had my skull cracked, and my then girlfriend wound up in the hospital in a coma for 22 days and nearly died, the people who did it stood up in court and said they were doing god's work. All of this for being gay. You expect me to go to the basement and be silent? Absolutely not. Yes, chik fil a can have their bigoted opinion. Yes, Christians can have their bigoted opinion. But when you donate millions of dollars to actively deny me and my LGBT brothers and sisters our rights, as well as perpetuate an attitude of hatred and violence as chik fil a does, that opinion is no longer just an opinion. It is actively harming a segment of the population that is harming no one.
I understand losing your sense of security. I lost mine a long time ago. I hate religion with every fiber of my being, and I'd rather roll naked over hot coals and glass than step foot into a church or be an environment full of Christians for any reason. I'll never trust self professed bible believers again, for I have been hurt enough. I will, however, continue to fight this battle until it is won in the courts. We are not a Christian nation, and Christians have no right to do the things they do to the LGBT community.
I do care if you eat Chik Fil A. You can't support a company that donates to groups that give money to causes like the "kill the gays" bill in Uganda and the corrective rape of lesbians in Ecuador and say you love gay people. Bigotry wrapped in prayer is still bigotry. You can keep your basement.
I understand losing your sense of security. I lost mine a long time ago. I hate religion with every fiber of my being, and I'd rather roll naked over hot coals and glass than step foot into a church or be an environment full of Christians for any reason. I'll never trust self professed bible believers again, for I have been hurt enough. I will, however, continue to fight this battle until it is won in the courts. We are not a Christian nation, and Christians have no right to do the things they do to the LGBT community.
I do care if you eat Chik Fil A. You can't support a company that donates to groups that give money to causes like the "kill the gays" bill in Uganda and the corrective rape of lesbians in Ecuador and say you love gay people. Bigotry wrapped in prayer is still bigotry. You can keep your basement.
↳
Jen Hatmaker - July 30th, 2012 at 7:05 PM
Oh, Shannon. I don't even know what to say. I'm so sorry. Those people should be in jail, all of them, and I hope they are. What you went through as a 12-year old is unthinkable. Please know those people do not speak for us all. Those are no brothers and sisters of mine. And let me tell you something: down here in the basement, we are on all sorts of important front lines - don't mistake the metaphor for neutrality. You don't know me at all, but you actually made my point: I will never, ever, ever identify with the hatred and discrimination leveled at you. THAT is what I've rejected forever. I wish we could sit down and I'd buy you coffee and hear your story. I wish you nothing but peace, Shannon.
↳
Shannon1981 - July 30th, 2012 at 7:41 PM
I am glad to know that not all Christians would do those things. I guess what I can't ignore is this: while, for obvious reasons, I'd never agree with or practice or support the religion again, I'd also NEVER try to outlaw it or make laws against those who choose that belief system. I don't get this perpetuation of legal discrimination that comes from so many corners of that faith, and the insistence that they are "entitled to an opinion." Are they entitled? Of course. But that opinion belongs nowhere but in homes and churches. Did you know that Chik Fil A is being sued for firing a pregnant woman because they believe she should be a stay at home mom? That they dig into their employees and franchise owners' backgrounds and families in a REALLY borderline illegal way in an effort to make sure they are all the right kind of Christians? That place goes waaayyyy beyond just having an opinion.
The thing is, I am walking, breathing proof that such opinions are very slippery slopes indeed. The Holocaust started with hate speech against Jews, and look where that led us. There has already been a pastor just up the way from me in NC who has suggested putting all gays into an electrified fence. He has thousands of supporters as well.
Our fears against these opinions are more than justified IMO. Slippery slope.Stuff like what happened to me? Tip of the iceberg.
And they aren't in jail...the conversion therapy isn't illegal, and the people who bashed my ex and me pleaded down to simple assault, got anger management and 100 hours each community service, no felony hate crimes charges. I guess the thing is, to you and other straight people, it's a culture war. To us, it is so much more...I can't hide and not fight, because to be complacent is to enable the oppressor.
The thing is, I am walking, breathing proof that such opinions are very slippery slopes indeed. The Holocaust started with hate speech against Jews, and look where that led us. There has already been a pastor just up the way from me in NC who has suggested putting all gays into an electrified fence. He has thousands of supporters as well.
Our fears against these opinions are more than justified IMO. Slippery slope.Stuff like what happened to me? Tip of the iceberg.
And they aren't in jail...the conversion therapy isn't illegal, and the people who bashed my ex and me pleaded down to simple assault, got anger management and 100 hours each community service, no felony hate crimes charges. I guess the thing is, to you and other straight people, it's a culture war. To us, it is so much more...I can't hide and not fight, because to be complacent is to enable the oppressor.
↳
Jen Hatmaker - July 30th, 2012 at 10:56 PM
I know about that pastor near you. Please know we all think him a lunatic. Which is exactly how I feel about the people who brought you emotional and physical harm. I care about you, Shannon. You couldn't possibly believe me, but I do. I so care about the way you've been treated, and I care about your civil liberties. Some of the CFA connections are nuanced (I'm looking up all the sources, or trying), but I do understand that words are powerful. So keep putting your words out there, and I will too. I really want to hear you. I would listen. I'm glad you engaged me here. You are welcomed here. Email me anytime at jenhatmail@aol.com. (BTW, it is a real tragedy that someone could put a woman in the hospital and get "anger management." What a cluster.)
↳
Shannon1981 - July 31st, 2012 at 6:49 AM
Thank you so much. I sometimes just sit back and sigh. I don't condone hate speech from EITHER side, I have left a ton of atheist organizations because they are just as hateful only on the other side. Some think that eradicating religion is the answer, but, I say this: if we leave the wall of separation between church and state and do away with hate groups on both sides, things will be a whole lot better. No atheist or gay person has to go to church. Ideas that perpetuate homophobia stay in homes and churches where they belong. Any laws reflecting specific religious beliefs are revamped to provide TRUE equality.
I know that's living in a fantasy world, but I truly believe it to be the answer. Religion is something no one will EVER agree on. It's crazy to try to make it so. That's why, despite my very strong feelings against it, I don't try to convert people.
I expected that pastor's congregation to turn against him, but, not the case...That is what makes it all the more scary. It's like we learned nothing the last time we allowed the world to do that to a group of people no one liked. I could honestly, at least in the environment I live in down here in the south, imagine people getting behind something like that. Bashings are pretty rampant, and often law enforcement does next to nothing.
Lots of people don't even involve them, because they know it's a futile effort.
Thanks for your caring, if only more people were like that. Certainly will email you sometime and bookmark this blog.
I know that's living in a fantasy world, but I truly believe it to be the answer. Religion is something no one will EVER agree on. It's crazy to try to make it so. That's why, despite my very strong feelings against it, I don't try to convert people.
I expected that pastor's congregation to turn against him, but, not the case...That is what makes it all the more scary. It's like we learned nothing the last time we allowed the world to do that to a group of people no one liked. I could honestly, at least in the environment I live in down here in the south, imagine people getting behind something like that. Bashings are pretty rampant, and often law enforcement does next to nothing.
Lots of people don't even involve them, because they know it's a futile effort.
Thanks for your caring, if only more people were like that. Certainly will email you sometime and bookmark this blog.
Shannon1981 - July 30th, 2012 at 2:53 PM
Oh, and one more thing- replace the words "gay" or "LGBT" with "black" or "jewish" and it's no longer just an opinion, is it? I can't wait for the day when it's no longer just an opinion with us, too, but seen for the disgusting discrimination that it is.
↳
tiffani - August 1st, 2012 at 2:37 PM
Shannon1981, do you blog about your experiences, or have you written anything elsewhere? I'd hate for the comment section on this blog to be the only place you share your story, and I think it's a VITALLY important point you make, that even "mild" anti-homosexual statements perpetuate violence against the LGBT community... Christians should take note...
↳
Shannon1981 - August 20th, 2012 at 6:06 AM
I haven't made any decisions about whether or not to go public with the wheres, whens, hows of all of this. There are a lot of lives that could be ruined, and my parents sorely regret the conversion therapy. My mother is a teacher, and anything like this would end her career. I am actually thinking of going to gofundme.com and starting a non profit for abused and homeless LGBT youth.
elizabeth - July 30th, 2012 at 3:02 PM
Jason Presley - July 30th, 2012 at 3:10 PM
Simply, very well said!
Tammy - July 30th, 2012 at 7:14 PM
For someone who is terrified by tornado's, I feel your pain - And I've never been in one! A few years ago though, when I took on the responsibility of my son's Cub Scout Den, I thought it might be important to know more about watching the weather. My community offered a storm watchers program. Basically those individuals become on-the-ground trained storm spotters for the community and the National Weather Service. If you ever have the chance to take a course like this, do it! I now feel empowered by the knowledge and feel much more comfortable experiencing the raw power of Mother Nature. It's even been fun to call in and make a report from time to time.
Annie - July 30th, 2012 at 8:10 PM
Hi Jen,
I totally agree with Mr. Cathy's right to do whatever he wants with his business. The controversy didn't start b/c he simply believes in something, but rather that he donated $2M to anti-gay groups. I believe that corporations vote with their dollars and I vote with mine too. People who support gay rights are not upset that he simply believes it, but that their money would potentially go to something that denies them certain rights and freedoms they believe they are owed. While I am still grappling with this issue and how to thoughtfully approach the complexities of it all...I do know that in the meantime my job is to love all. I liked most of what you had to say but what I thought was odd was when you said "We hate that 25,000 people will die today of hunger and we’re arguing gay marriage again." Or this- "...and battling real injustices and caring for the poor..." as if gay people don't look at this situation as a "real injustice"? Of course they do and the more and more I think and pray about it, isn't it an injustice to be treated like a second class citizen?
Cathy should be able to put his money anywhere and say anything he wants to. There are consequences and he is willing to deal with those...he's not bowing to the almighty dollar which is one of the only refreshing things in all of this mess.
I totally agree with Mr. Cathy's right to do whatever he wants with his business. The controversy didn't start b/c he simply believes in something, but rather that he donated $2M to anti-gay groups. I believe that corporations vote with their dollars and I vote with mine too. People who support gay rights are not upset that he simply believes it, but that their money would potentially go to something that denies them certain rights and freedoms they believe they are owed. While I am still grappling with this issue and how to thoughtfully approach the complexities of it all...I do know that in the meantime my job is to love all. I liked most of what you had to say but what I thought was odd was when you said "We hate that 25,000 people will die today of hunger and we’re arguing gay marriage again." Or this- "...and battling real injustices and caring for the poor..." as if gay people don't look at this situation as a "real injustice"? Of course they do and the more and more I think and pray about it, isn't it an injustice to be treated like a second class citizen?
Cathy should be able to put his money anywhere and say anything he wants to. There are consequences and he is willing to deal with those...he's not bowing to the almighty dollar which is one of the only refreshing things in all of this mess.
Scott - July 30th, 2012 at 8:22 PM
Two Words: Thank You!
Flower Patch Farmgirl - July 30th, 2012 at 9:36 PM
"Christianity has turned into white noise".
Nail. On head.
If I could, I would kiss you smack on the cheek. Would that be weird?
Nail. On head.
If I could, I would kiss you smack on the cheek. Would that be weird?
anjie henley - July 30th, 2012 at 10:33 PM
omg....................I love this sharing and hope everyone does
Brandee Shafer - July 30th, 2012 at 10:45 PM
I just love this. Flower Patch Farmgirl sent me to this post, this evening, via fb. I wish I'd read it days ago, b/c I've been so upset and so unable to choose a side, especially considering the obnoxious behavior of each. I wrote a poem, yesterday, as I tried to wrestle through it. http://brandeeshafer.blogspot.com/2012/07/chick-fil-sharing-my-heart-in-verse.html
Thanks, again.
Thanks, again.
Jessica - July 31st, 2012 at 12:34 AM
"Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate"
Stop fighting hate with hate people...
Stop fighting hate with hate people...
C.J. - July 31st, 2012 at 12:39 AM
Thank you for expressing what is in my heart. I am a long-time churgoer and former deacon who has been unable to find true Christian fellowship since moving to my community. There are too many people who talk the talk, but don't walk the walk. Liars and hypocrites are the same whether they are in politics or in the pulpit. I love the Lord and will commune with him "in the basement". The religious disenfranchisement and disillusionment with the politically correct who persecute any who dare to differ has alienated all ages. I hear the same thing from my parents in their seventies as I do from my children in their twenties. Enough with all the judging and finger pointing. If you don't like it, do something to solve the problems instead of just pointing fingers at anyone who might have a different idea.
drea - July 31st, 2012 at 6:34 AM
i read this post the day you wrote it and have read it at least 5 times since, even to my husband. as a kansas girl myself (wichita/haysville), i relate to your tornado references (and know the one you were talking about), but i couldn't believe how perfectly you described the cry of my heart. i hate what christianity has become to the masses. the lord is working in our church and in our city. i am seeing lives transformed, faith renewed and healing take place...but to the masses, jesus is not love and it breaks my heart.
thank you for sharing your heart so openly. i so long to sit with women who are wiser than i am, just to learn and listen and share life. at the risk of sounding like a creeper, i wish we could do coffee...or be best friends. seriously though, i love your heart for the lord and i am so thankful for your example of obedience.
thank you for sharing your heart so openly. i so long to sit with women who are wiser than i am, just to learn and listen and share life. at the risk of sounding like a creeper, i wish we could do coffee...or be best friends. seriously though, i love your heart for the lord and i am so thankful for your example of obedience.
Heather Head - July 31st, 2012 at 6:59 AM
Heaven sent. Thank you. I fell asleep last night depressed and woke up again this morning depressed. I though I, and my husband, were the only ones. Thank you for saying so eloquently what I am feeling. Liked and shared and subscribed. Thank you.
Sheila Seiler Lagrand - July 31st, 2012 at 9:05 AM
I love the bravery. I've been trying to figure out what I could say that would be helpful. You've done it. Bless you!
I am grateful that my own preferred sinful acts aren't the type that legislation will impact.
I am grateful that my own preferred sinful acts aren't the type that legislation will impact.
Arden - July 31st, 2012 at 9:08 AM
Thank you. I'm having a hard time saying what's on my heart regarding this whole issue because let's be real honest, good grief I love a Chick-Fil-A nugget platter. I asked my mom a few days ago what she thought Jesus would be doing in this situation and we just didn't know... Is my heart so far removed from Him that I can't answer that question? Now I'm gonna have to contemplate that...
↳
Sherry - August 3rd, 2012 at 9:58 AM
Kayla - July 31st, 2012 at 9:11 AM
Thank you for saying what needs to be said- for finding a way to make peace in all of this mess. Jesus is honored by that. Joining you in the basement!
Cyndi - July 31st, 2012 at 9:11 AM
Jen,
Thank you for articulating this so well. And I'm sorry for the comment feed...you specifically asked that it not turn into a war zone, and within the first 10 comments, the bullets were flying. *sigh*
Thank you for articulating this so well. And I'm sorry for the comment feed...you specifically asked that it not turn into a war zone, and within the first 10 comments, the bullets were flying. *sigh*
Laura Farmer - July 31st, 2012 at 10:14 AM
You said "Well, the church is losing around 50K folks a week, and the next generation downright refuses to come. " and I think that this sort of behavior is the root of the matter. When I was a kid, it was divorced people. They were the pariahs -- and now we wonder why children of divorce won't come to church? Divorce was the "unpardonable sin!" of the day. Now it's being gay. I'm so sorry, but **WHERE** in scripture does it say that one sin (like divorce, or homosexuality, or drunkenness) is worse than another?? My favorite "poster" on FB about it is "don't judge somebody because they sin differently than you do!"
caroline - July 31st, 2012 at 10:28 AM
HEY Jen! Honestly, I admire you. I just got two of your books that I feel certain Jesus will use to rock.my.world. But we disagree on this basement thing. I wonder if you would read my blog before you head down tot he basement. A lot of good for a lot of needy people could get done, I believe. God bless you, new friend.
"Full Christian Bellies"
www.carolineholzberger.com
"Full Christian Bellies"
www.carolineholzberger.com
Traylor Lovvorn - July 31st, 2012 at 11:40 AM
Awesome post Jen! I just stumbled upon your blog and will definitely be coming back!
Traylor Lovvorn
www.ragamuffinreflections.com
Traylor Lovvorn
www.ragamuffinreflections.com
Lauren - July 31st, 2012 at 1:56 PM
So very well said! You have eloquently voiced the very thing I have been harboring inside for a long time, but didn't know how to say it! Yell it loud and proud! I am in the basement with you!
Megan Card - July 31st, 2012 at 2:05 PM
You are a breath of fresh air. THANK YOU for posting this, Jen.
Amy Woods - July 31st, 2012 at 3:10 PM
This is awesome. Totally what I would say/write if I were eloquent enough to do so! Thank you!
denise - July 31st, 2012 at 3:15 PM
Wonderful post. I will be more than happy to join you in the closet.
angela - July 31st, 2012 at 3:17 PM
*LOVE*!!
P.K. - July 31st, 2012 at 3:38 PM
Jen- How can a christian be a light to the world- while hiding in the basement?
Karen Peterson - July 31st, 2012 at 3:48 PM
Amen, sister!
I'm a Mormon living in California. You can imagine how popular I've been for the last four years. It's amazing how quick we are to judge one another based only on a tiny detail, rather than an understanding of the whole story.
Thank you for this post. I couldn't have said it any better.
I'm a Mormon living in California. You can imagine how popular I've been for the last four years. It's amazing how quick we are to judge one another based only on a tiny detail, rather than an understanding of the whole story.
Thank you for this post. I couldn't have said it any better.
Janine - July 31st, 2012 at 6:23 PM
In the basement huh. A cozy place when you can ignore the fact that citizens of the United States aren't being afforded their full rights under the constitution, and they aren't your rights being withheld. Religion has no basis in the argument of gay marriage. No one is saying they want to force the local Catholic Church, or Baptist Church, random Christian church, Jewish Temple, Mosque, etc to marry two men. They just want equal rights and protections under the law that is due to them as citizens. Tax incentives, parenting laws, spousal rights, inheritance rules, etc. This guy Cathy can say whatever he wants, but I don't have to support him or his company by frequenting his establishments. I have the right to boycott and I will. I will not support any company, group, person who feels that their religion is a reason to undermine the rights of others. You are free to believe whatever you want as long as it does not negatively affect others rights. When we allow that to happen our country as we know it is dead and all the freedoms fought and preserved over the centuries will be for nothing. Get out of the basement and fight for your rights. Because if you are an American citizen these are your rights too.
Kelly - July 31st, 2012 at 7:01 PM
I'd love to hang out in the basement with you. Thanks.
Tracey - July 31st, 2012 at 7:53 PM
Beautifully written and communicated. I agree 1000000%!
Tara - July 31st, 2012 at 9:07 PM
Awesome!! We are to hate the sin, but love the sinner... for we are ALL sinners! :)
Debbie - July 31st, 2012 at 9:32 PM
Sometimes its hard to take the flesh part out as a Christian... I to as a Christian, work daily to walk like Christ does and I continually fail.. One thing I have been learning is the things that hurt us the most, the people who will betray, we have to inturn render a blessing.. We have to take that hate and make it a blessing...We have to also be in continual prayer for our country, our pastors, our neighbors even if we dont like them.. we have to pray with out ceasing..Its hard very hard..but the outcome is to the Glory of the Lord... Thank you for this blog and your stand.. We are the salt of the earth..!
Susan Hoffmaster - July 31st, 2012 at 9:49 PM
We have completely overlooked unmarried couples with children. I know this has nothing to do with the Chic Fil-A controversy but as a parent who allowed her son to live in her home with his girlfriend and their children, it cost my husband and I consideration for leadership position within our church. Did we stop serving any differently? Tithing less? Or giving of our unending time to our church family? NO. But allowing "sinning" in our house was frowned upon. I spoke to my God about the situation and got an answer. Nothing was ever formerly said to us but we knew. Others said something to me...my dance worship group leader commented on it several times. The basement isn't an ostrich thing people, it's a safety thing, like being on your knees in prayer. I'll join you there!
Anna - July 31st, 2012 at 10:04 PM
Shannon~ I was raised by fundamentalist christians and I divorced an abusive parachurch minister (who is a serial gang rapist). The christians and the community protected him. For 38 years I believed in jesus with every fiber of my being. I cannot go near a church again.
....the author.....: You really needed a different opening; this is dissonate. Unless you actually feel that level of terror about the arguments today as you did (and as you say, still do in nightmares once a month) in the terrible event of the tornado, it doesn't make sense. It doesn't work as an analogy and it doesn't transition; it just leaves a reader confused for a few paragraphs into the 'chick-a-fil' ...stuff. I would send this back to my own children for a re-write.
A tornado is, as insurance companies write it, 'an act of god'. A heated political debate among humans cannot be an analogy because you have made yourself to be powerless in the situation (that is: with a tornado, there is nothing you can do but hide in the basement; with this ...debate.... you can.... write, as you have; you can love others, as perhaps you do, and I would hope you wouldn't scream with that level of fear and terror).
Would love to connect with you Shannon....
....the author.....: You really needed a different opening; this is dissonate. Unless you actually feel that level of terror about the arguments today as you did (and as you say, still do in nightmares once a month) in the terrible event of the tornado, it doesn't make sense. It doesn't work as an analogy and it doesn't transition; it just leaves a reader confused for a few paragraphs into the 'chick-a-fil' ...stuff. I would send this back to my own children for a re-write.
A tornado is, as insurance companies write it, 'an act of god'. A heated political debate among humans cannot be an analogy because you have made yourself to be powerless in the situation (that is: with a tornado, there is nothing you can do but hide in the basement; with this ...debate.... you can.... write, as you have; you can love others, as perhaps you do, and I would hope you wouldn't scream with that level of fear and terror).
Would love to connect with you Shannon....
Anthony - July 31st, 2012 at 10:17 PM
bla bla bla...homophobic and unenlightened bible thumpers. sickening. shame on you.
Carol S - July 31st, 2012 at 10:36 PM
You have put into words what my heart has wrestled with for days now. Thank you! I have shared your timely post on FB so I expect I will be joining you in the basement shortly. :)
Anna - July 31st, 2012 at 10:40 PM
Shannon~ I was raised by fundamentalist christians and I divorced an abusive parachurch minister (who is a serial gang rapist). The christians and the community protected him. For 38 years I believed in jesus with every fiber of my being. I cannot go near a church again.
....the author.....: You really needed a different opening; this is dissonate. Unless you actually feel that level of terror about the arguments today as you did (and as you say, still do in nightmares once a month) in the terrible event of the tornado, it doesn't make sense. It doesn't work as an analogy and it doesn't transition; it just leaves a reader confused for a few paragraphs into the 'chick-a-fil' ...stuff. I would send this back to my own children for a re-write.
A tornado is, as insurance companies write it, 'an act of god'. A heated political debate among humans cannot be an analogy because you have made yourself to be powerless in the situation (that is: with a tornado, there is nothing you can do but hide in the basement; with this ...debate.... you can.... write, as you have; you can love others, as perhaps you do, and I would hope you wouldn't scream with that level of fear and terror).
Would love to connect with you Shannon....
....the author.....: You really needed a different opening; this is dissonate. Unless you actually feel that level of terror about the arguments today as you did (and as you say, still do in nightmares once a month) in the terrible event of the tornado, it doesn't make sense. It doesn't work as an analogy and it doesn't transition; it just leaves a reader confused for a few paragraphs into the 'chick-a-fil' ...stuff. I would send this back to my own children for a re-write.
A tornado is, as insurance companies write it, 'an act of god'. A heated political debate among humans cannot be an analogy because you have made yourself to be powerless in the situation (that is: with a tornado, there is nothing you can do but hide in the basement; with this ...debate.... you can.... write, as you have; you can love others, as perhaps you do, and I would hope you wouldn't scream with that level of fear and terror).
Would love to connect with you Shannon....
Sarah - July 31st, 2012 at 10:53 PM
Amazing post that completely echoes my heart. Thank you!
cheryl sloan cornwell - July 31st, 2012 at 11:37 PM
You so eloquently wrote what I've been trying to articulate all week. Thank you.
Jen - August 1st, 2012 at 12:15 AM
Love this especially the athiest comment :))) But i will not eat at Chick fil a because of the public LIE about the toys. (period) I support all marriages except for the abusive ones and i dont care who my chidlren bring home as long as they are happy
Leslie H. - August 1st, 2012 at 12:40 AM
Thank you for opening my eyes and heart to a simple truth that I have forgotten over the years and through all of the craziness in this world. Love each other and let God will handle the rest. I have been a Christian all my life and tired of all the finger pointing and judgement especially among ourselves . Let's keep what's important: important! See you in the basement :)
Lizelle - August 1st, 2012 at 1:35 AM
Count me in! Brilliant post.
Brent - August 1st, 2012 at 4:44 AM
Jen, thanks for the great post. It was insightful. I especially liked the most from Reagan (July 29th, 2012 at 4:07 AM) and Melissa (July 27th, 2012 at 4:35 PM) as they really do reflect a closer resemblance to my own thoughts. Thanks to you two as well.
William Stacklerst - August 1st, 2012 at 5:32 AM
I enjoyed reading your post and have been thinking about this issue as it still dominates some headlines. I also read an article by Trevin Wax in the subject that she'd some interesting light. Take a look, it provides some good insight. God bless!
http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2012/08/01/why-the-chick-fil-a-boycott-is-really-about-jesus/?utm_source=rss
http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevinwax/2012/08/01/why-the-chick-fil-a-boycott-is-really-about-jesus/?utm_source=rss
Amy - August 1st, 2012 at 8:29 AM
Well said. Posted it on my FB timeline... Thanks for putting it together so eloquently. :)
Susie - August 1st, 2012 at 8:36 AM
Jen, I'd like to have coffee with you! I don't drink coffee, but I'll learn. I love your heart and that you're not afraid to be who you are. I think that too many people think "This is what I have to believe if I'm a Christian" and they just fall in line with what they think they need to believe.
You said it perfectly - Love is the answer. yeah yeah, hippie chick throw back, but like my son said - if you believe that, everything else is just gravy, and everyone has their own favorite recipe for gravy.
You said it perfectly - Love is the answer. yeah yeah, hippie chick throw back, but like my son said - if you believe that, everything else is just gravy, and everyone has their own favorite recipe for gravy.
Muriah Rabon - August 1st, 2012 at 8:56 AM
This is a must read under any circumstance. Thank you for voicing this, beautifully expressed and written on all everything that must be said! I appreciate you as a human being and thank you for appreciating myself as a human being. One love!
Jillji - August 1st, 2012 at 9:00 AM
This is exactly what I think. Too much time is spent on hate. I think people are so set in their ways and just flat out ignorant, that they can't see the love people have towards each other. How many people against gay marriage are divorced? I have had trouble figuring out what I am politically, but I'll tell you this: I am for equality. I am for peace, love, and kindness. I thought that made me an American. Maybe I was wrong.
Thanks for sharing. :)
Thanks for sharing. :)
MomQueenBee - August 1st, 2012 at 9:05 AM
This said everything I have wanted to say about these Gospel wars. Thank you, thank you.
Anna Popescu - August 1st, 2012 at 9:08 AM
Jen, thank you for stating the obvious so well. All this hate mongering has affected me greatly too. If we are to love all in the name of Jesus, hate should and cannot exist at the same time. How can we reach out to the lost in Jesus' name if we secretly (and not so secretly) harbor hate in our hearts?
Blessings to you in your basement. I'm with you in spirit if not in the flesh!
~Anna
Blessings to you in your basement. I'm with you in spirit if not in the flesh!
~Anna
Linda - August 1st, 2012 at 9:16 AM
Amen! Amen! I'm with you!
Leslie - August 1st, 2012 at 10:36 AM
I get the sentiments you are expressing, Jen. I was right there with you on this, all the way, until a couple months ago. We worship in a military community and a couple months ago, one of our chaplains conducted a gay unification ceremony in our chapel. I was shocked at how my views, much like yours stated here, changed when it was brought to my doorstep. Then I got why gay marriage is such a big deal. Marriage is a big deal to God. It's the very thing He has set up as an example of His relationship to us. the church. It's holy. And just like everything else Satan does, He has taken something beautiful and twisted it, perverted it. And it's going to happen more and more. It feels so awful to see something beautiful defiled in your place of worship. I was surprised at it. But it's going to keep happening if we don't say something in love and not just hide out. We are called to do hard things sometimes. Balancing love and giving voice to our faith is hard. But if we don't do it, we are being UNLOVING. Jesus turns things on their heads. The very things that in our nature seem right, he seems to do the opposite. I think this is a case of that. This is a subject that no thirty-something stay at home mom wants to be crying out, but if we don't speak up we are allowing things to occur that will cause our country to fall under judgment. I've been reading the book of Isaiah. There are SO many parallels between Israel's estate at the time and that of our own country. If we believe in a just God and don't believe that he will enact justice on us if we continue the same path, we are being naive. All of us will suffer together, too, not just those in the wrong. Live and let live is not being loving.
I understand the opposite side of this too, though. I don't care for the way the left does a lot of things. I think that it reflects what the book of Isaiah voices about the religious leaders of their day. They go through all the motions, but their hearts are far from Him. We (all of us) focus on outside issues and not the glory of the Lord when a spirit of religion takes over. We focus on everything else around us but the Lord when our love has grown cold. If we exalted the Lord in right order in our lives, we would draw those hurting to Him, whether gay or straight.
So, we need to walk a fine line, knowing that those before us have hurt. We need to admonish them to turn to Christ first and walk out in love, but I believe we also cannot "go to the basement." You can't change hearts and minds by hiding out and hoping to ride out the storm. Eventually, you've got to go back up. What's going to be left? Will the entire institution of HOLY matrimony be demolished when we go back up? This fight is not like a force of nature that it is useless to fight against. This is a thief, coming in to rob the house of something pure and right. It's something we can fight against and if we can't win, we can at least protect what is precious to us for a while.
E - August 1st, 2012 at 10:42 AM
Just imagine if marriage were between people and God and government minded its own business. Jesus never tried to regulate who married with laws. I don't see why Christians should be spending so much time on trying to get government in the business of regulating marriage. Get government out of it.
I guess its a good thing we don't use the Bible as our law of the land. Deuteronomy calls for women who are raped to marry the rapist so long as he pays the father 50 shekels of silver for her since he "damaged" her. Deuteronomy 22:28
Also, we would be putting people to death for adultery , also in Deuteronomy 22.
I guess its a good thing we don't use the Bible as our law of the land. Deuteronomy calls for women who are raped to marry the rapist so long as he pays the father 50 shekels of silver for her since he "damaged" her. Deuteronomy 22:28
Also, we would be putting people to death for adultery , also in Deuteronomy 22.
Emily - August 1st, 2012 at 10:43 AM
You just expressed how I have been feeling about this whole situation but couldn't, or didn't want to find the words to express. Thanks! Maybe there are a few sane people left in this world?
Ben - August 1st, 2012 at 11:15 AM
Eh, no. You would have us increase the perception that the loud "church's" hateful heterosexism is actually all Christians. Have us make sure that, through our silence, people will continue to consider the church unrelated to the rest of the world and invite no change to "the next generation downright refus[ing] to come." Have us pretend the issue is a single person's opinion and not a corporation's financial support of anti-gay organizations - meaning my choice to eat a Chick-fil-A sandwich is giving money to them - including one designated as a hate group.
Hateful responses to hate are stupid, yes. Government aided hate is stupid, yes. But speaking out about such issues, informing one another of things like this so that we can make informed decisions as consumers is not a bad thing, it is social media at its best.
You're correct in pointing out that there are bigger, more important issues, but this is important too. And if the church doesn't come out strongly against this and other social issues, we continue down the path of becoming a limp, sad, irrelevant social club that some people go to on Sunday, or, dare I say it: a group of people shut off from the world, disconnected, hiding in a basement.
Hateful responses to hate are stupid, yes. Government aided hate is stupid, yes. But speaking out about such issues, informing one another of things like this so that we can make informed decisions as consumers is not a bad thing, it is social media at its best.
You're correct in pointing out that there are bigger, more important issues, but this is important too. And if the church doesn't come out strongly against this and other social issues, we continue down the path of becoming a limp, sad, irrelevant social club that some people go to on Sunday, or, dare I say it: a group of people shut off from the world, disconnected, hiding in a basement.
Brandon - August 1st, 2012 at 11:40 AM
BEAUTIFUL!!!!! I am coming!!!!!
Jack - August 1st, 2012 at 11:53 AM
If Dan Cathy had come out and stated that he didn't personally believe that whites and non-whites should marry, and you found out he donated money to see those beliefs made into law, would you change your tune?
This is the same issue as it was in the 1960's, repackaged for today. It's discrimination and irrational hatred against a specific group of people who are doing no harm and bothering no one. You can hide in your proverbial basement, but sticking your head in the sand and sitting this one out doesn't make you somehow more enlightened than the rest of us. It means at a critical point in history when a minority group was being condemned and needed help, you looked the other way.
Your outlook on this is sickening, and you'll find yourself, much like the bigots and fence-sitters of the civil rights era, on the wrong side of history.
This is the same issue as it was in the 1960's, repackaged for today. It's discrimination and irrational hatred against a specific group of people who are doing no harm and bothering no one. You can hide in your proverbial basement, but sticking your head in the sand and sitting this one out doesn't make you somehow more enlightened than the rest of us. It means at a critical point in history when a minority group was being condemned and needed help, you looked the other way.
Your outlook on this is sickening, and you'll find yourself, much like the bigots and fence-sitters of the civil rights era, on the wrong side of history.
↳
Charles - August 1st, 2012 at 11:24 PM
Jack your comparison of gay rights to civil rights is both ignorant and irresponsible. It's just more liberal drivel being put out to confuse the issues.
First off there is no place in Scripture where being white, black or any other color is categorized as a sin. Not just any sin mind you but an abomination. True Christians base our morals and values on the foundation of Scripture. Period. Scripture is clear that homosexuality is a sin. It says nothing about somebody's skin color being a sin. So if the Bible identifies homosexuality as a sin then Christians need to align themselves with Scripture and oppose any legislation that justifies or legitimizes something we see as sinful. There is nothing sinful about skin color. I would say your comparison is apples to oranges but it's farther apart than that. Apples to........ baseball bats perhaps.
The sickening thing is the HUGE double standard in the media when it comes to Christians. Gays and those in the LGBTGLOGHTUDN(can I buy a vowel?)SLLKJLJSDF community seem to think they are the only group of people who are victims or are ever discriminated against. Dan Cathy shared his opinion when asked and look at the back lash from it? If a gay person in favor of gay marriage shared their thoughts and the Christian community responded the way most of society has we'd be called fascists, bigots, etc. Christians are the ONLY group left in America that it's perfectly ACCEPTABLE to discriminate against.
Christians are constantly called hypocrites and now when we have one who sticks by his morals and values he's a bigot and a fascist. Unbelievable.
First off there is no place in Scripture where being white, black or any other color is categorized as a sin. Not just any sin mind you but an abomination. True Christians base our morals and values on the foundation of Scripture. Period. Scripture is clear that homosexuality is a sin. It says nothing about somebody's skin color being a sin. So if the Bible identifies homosexuality as a sin then Christians need to align themselves with Scripture and oppose any legislation that justifies or legitimizes something we see as sinful. There is nothing sinful about skin color. I would say your comparison is apples to oranges but it's farther apart than that. Apples to........ baseball bats perhaps.
The sickening thing is the HUGE double standard in the media when it comes to Christians. Gays and those in the LGBTGLOGHTUDN(can I buy a vowel?)SLLKJLJSDF community seem to think they are the only group of people who are victims or are ever discriminated against. Dan Cathy shared his opinion when asked and look at the back lash from it? If a gay person in favor of gay marriage shared their thoughts and the Christian community responded the way most of society has we'd be called fascists, bigots, etc. Christians are the ONLY group left in America that it's perfectly ACCEPTABLE to discriminate against.
Christians are constantly called hypocrites and now when we have one who sticks by his morals and values he's a bigot and a fascist. Unbelievable.
Pam - August 1st, 2012 at 11:55 AM
This is total crap!
The situation has nothing to do with religious beliefs, political games, culture wars or anything of the like. It's simply a CIVIL RIGHTS issue. Period. If you are a homosexual in a loving and consenting relationship, you should have the same legal rights as any other heterosexual couple in the same situation. If you are not willing to fight for someone else's rights, so be it. Do not have the audacity to say that this somehow affects your life in a way that is stressful, frightening or any other emotion that would derive from experiencing a tornado. Why? Because all you have to do is look the other way. You choose to read certain posts, read certain articles, and watch certain news programs.
For those have chosen not to ignore it, I'm glad, and proud, that an outpouring of support towards the gay community has surfaced. It's a step towards doing what is right for others. Any action against bigotry is important, no matter how large or small.
Go ahead and hide in your basement. Ignore what is unjustly being done to your neighbors and live in your little box. The rest of us will gladly fight for our friend's god given rights.
The situation has nothing to do with religious beliefs, political games, culture wars or anything of the like. It's simply a CIVIL RIGHTS issue. Period. If you are a homosexual in a loving and consenting relationship, you should have the same legal rights as any other heterosexual couple in the same situation. If you are not willing to fight for someone else's rights, so be it. Do not have the audacity to say that this somehow affects your life in a way that is stressful, frightening or any other emotion that would derive from experiencing a tornado. Why? Because all you have to do is look the other way. You choose to read certain posts, read certain articles, and watch certain news programs.
For those have chosen not to ignore it, I'm glad, and proud, that an outpouring of support towards the gay community has surfaced. It's a step towards doing what is right for others. Any action against bigotry is important, no matter how large or small.
Go ahead and hide in your basement. Ignore what is unjustly being done to your neighbors and live in your little box. The rest of us will gladly fight for our friend's god given rights.
↳
Charles - August 1st, 2012 at 11:31 PM
Pam how exactly did you come to the conclusion that marriage let alone gay marriage is a "right" given by god???? I assume the little g was intentional correct?
I'm curious what you used to base that statement on.
I'm curious what you used to base that statement on.
↳
Pam - August 3rd, 2012 at 5:45 PM
Using the phrase "god given" is simply a normal colloquial turn of phrase. The intent (which is clear) is that marriage is a human right that should not be denied between two consenting adults, and especially when their love and union doesn't infringe on the rights of anyone else.
Little 'g', big "G", it really makes no difference. Unless, of course, you're one of those people who likes to justify wholesale hatred, bigotry, and discrimination off on one of thousands of interpretations of a Jewish manuscript from 332 BC.
Little 'g', big "G", it really makes no difference. Unless, of course, you're one of those people who likes to justify wholesale hatred, bigotry, and discrimination off on one of thousands of interpretations of a Jewish manuscript from 332 BC.
↳
Charles - August 7th, 2012 at 11:00 PM
No actually it's not. God given and god given are different. And it's pretty clear to discern from the latter part of your answer that it was intentional. No worries though, you certainly have a right to your opinion and I respect that.
Your response itself reeks of hatred and discrimination towards people who think differently than you. It's hypocrisy personified. Unless, of course, you're one of those people who likes to justify wholesale hatred, bigotry and discrimination off of.... um... wait..... how exactly do you justify your double standard?????
Your response itself reeks of hatred and discrimination towards people who think differently than you. It's hypocrisy personified. Unless, of course, you're one of those people who likes to justify wholesale hatred, bigotry and discrimination off of.... um... wait..... how exactly do you justify your double standard?????
Lori - August 1st, 2012 at 12:18 PM
Thank you. Well written, well said, and I agree totally. I am coming to the basement. I'm in California~where basements are foreign, but I'll be digging for one soon. Perhaps, I'll come to the attic instead. There is peace and solace in the arms of Christ's love and I want to display that in my life.
Jill Forest - August 1st, 2012 at 12:45 PM
Excellent article and well thought out. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I too am tired and would relish peace and civility.
Steph - August 1st, 2012 at 12:48 PM
We are to take care of the poor, the sick, the hungry, the oppressed. We are to do all we can to use our resources to turn about their fate and alleviate their burdens in the name of Jesus, but we are also to call sinners to repent. I was called to repent of my sin and I have an eternal hope because of it. Jesus is more concerned about my sin than anything else. Why did he hang out with the outcasts, and the oppressed? Because they were lost and needed a savior. He called people to repent of their sin and go and sin no more. Yes, he did it with love, and compassion. He came not to condemn the world but to save it. He came to save us from spiritual impoverishment. We are not only the hands and feet of Jesus in the sense you speak of and of which I totally agree, but we are also called to be the hands and feet of Jesus to sinners who need a savior. Sin is a real thing. Yes, we are all sinners. I'm no better than any other soul in that regard. However, a lifestyle of sin will separate us eternally from God. That is worse than poverty, or abuse, or any other form of oppression on this earth. Eternal separation from God. I hope and pray that keeping people form that fate is at the forefront of my mind. If we relieve a person of their earthly burdens, but do not lead them to the one who can relieve them of their eternal burden what good are we? Yes, we are to do more than say "be warm and well fed" we are to enable that, but that isn't the end. We are light in this dark world. What causes the world to be dark? Sin. Disobedience. I love so much of the message you have relayed in your recent books, so much truth that brings me to my knees about how I am or am not being Jesus in this world. Jesus does love the homosexual. He loves them dearly. We are to love them as well, but not to acknowledge that homosexuality is a sin just as much as any other sin is neglect. I have a close friend who is a homosexual. He knows where I stand on this issue, and we disagree, but he knows I love him. I've never been afraid to call it sin, but because of my love for him he doesn't feel isolated or hated or ostracized. You seem to want to embrace people without holding them accountable. I would rather go back to living in poverty than be lost without Jesus. I would rather experience abuse all over again than be lost without Jesus. I'm so thankful my sin was called sin so I could repent and be made whole. If we give them food and don't lead them to repentance they will starve. If we give them a coat and don't show them that they need light, they will freeze to death. If we give them money and allow them to continue in their sin without warning, they will be bankrupt. We love them the best by allowing the Holy Spirit to use us to lead them to a relationship with Jesus. That relationship requires repentance. This is true no matter the sin or the sinner. It's central to the gospel. Your post is passionate and includes much truth, but it leaves the core of the gospel out. Blood was shed to save sinners who repent and follow Jesus.
↳
Charles - August 1st, 2012 at 11:28 PM
Exactly!!! Real love isn't always acceptance. Sometimes love requires honesty, even if it hurts.
The truth without love is brutality. Love without truth is hypocrisy. -- Warren Wiersbe
The truth without love is brutality. Love without truth is hypocrisy. -- Warren Wiersbe
Chas Smith - August 1st, 2012 at 1:45 PM
Hi Chas, Mom just read this Blog to me. She found it on Bev Dayton's Facebook page. After your insightful comments today on Facebook, we both thought you would appreciate Jen Hatmaker's comments. It is amazing "how" the church (local) can become way too civilized in it's own culture.
This is what we love about Erwin McManus' book . . . The Barbarian Way. We love you Chas,
Dad
This is what we love about Erwin McManus' book . . . The Barbarian Way. We love you Chas,
Dad
RobDogg22304 - August 1st, 2012 at 1:47 PM
Julie - August 1st, 2012 at 1:58 PM
I've read this twice this week. I love your voice and your view. Thank you for writing!
Jessica - August 1st, 2012 at 1:59 PM
I have been preaching this for years!!!!!!!!!!!! Amen to the fact I'm not alone!! I'm coming down to the basement, cause I've been up here, trying to talk people, who can't hear me, down into the basement. Come to the basement!!! Please, come to the basement!!!!
Hayne - August 1st, 2012 at 2:25 PM
Thank you for the well timed invitation. I love the invitation of the basement, heading underground to seek refuge from the spinning and swirling of the social media twister on this particular topic. You have given words to what I have been feeling for the last couple weeks.
Did you by any chance order Polynesian Sauce?
Did you by any chance order Polynesian Sauce?
renee - August 1st, 2012 at 3:39 PM
Let the Bible speak for itself:
1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders.
1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders.
Todd - August 1st, 2012 at 3:40 PM
There were a lot of German Christians "in the basement" eating their bratwurst platter while the Jews were going to the ovens or gas chambers, so, stay in the basement ( head in the sand would be a better analogy , I think ). Now is the time to take a stand and let it be known on who's side you're on. Jesus loves gays, but hates Homosexuality, because it's sin , and sin separates Jesus from the ones he loves. He hates it so bad he died for you to defeat it. If they don't repent, they will perish in their sins, they don't need coddling and acceptance in their sin, they need repentance, a change of mind and heart, then they will have relationship with God, but not until. Read the scriptures! We are to love them, love them enough to tell them the truth, but tell them in love, not judgmentally, because we've all sinned and fallen short, and its only by His grace that any will be saved.
↳
charles - August 1st, 2012 at 10:26 PM
Perfectly worded and well thought out post. Satan is the great deceiver and unfortunately a lot of Christians are being deceived into thinking that loving someone as we're commanded to also means accepting their sin.
tina - August 1st, 2012 at 3:57 PM
thank you!
Karen - August 1st, 2012 at 4:12 PM
I love you right now. SO WELL SAID!
E - August 1st, 2012 at 5:05 PM
you seriously need to read this article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-badash/chick-fil-a-5-reasons-it-isnt-what-you-think_b_1725237.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009 i love the basic point of your article, but it's about more than just a CEO spouting off his opinions. Chick-fil-a has donated millions of dollars to harmful organizations, including a certified HATE GROUP. and they have been sued quite a few times for discrimination.
Micah - August 1st, 2012 at 5:49 PM
You must have come into my head and read my mind.
At a cursory glance, it appears some well intentioned people missed the point: It is not about doing nothing; it is about doing the right something.
I agree with every word you said. Well, except for the part about ragamuffins. I want nothing to do with a ragamuffin. Now a blueberry muffin on the other hand...
At a cursory glance, it appears some well intentioned people missed the point: It is not about doing nothing; it is about doing the right something.
I agree with every word you said. Well, except for the part about ragamuffins. I want nothing to do with a ragamuffin. Now a blueberry muffin on the other hand...
Elizabeth - August 1st, 2012 at 5:51 PM
Thank you for writing this! (I found it through a facebook friend and shared it on my facebook page as well). It is so refreshing and echoes what my heart has been feeling these past few days.
karen - August 1st, 2012 at 6:00 PM
Amen sister!
Nathanklymant - August 1st, 2012 at 6:05 PM
This has reached me to the heart. Thank you. I am done arguing, defending, attacking, or complaining. I love God and God commands me to love.
Bethany - August 1st, 2012 at 6:15 PM
Type comment here...
Tim - August 1st, 2012 at 6:44 PM
I've got a feeling Hugh's got to be in the basement, right? After reading a lot of the posts on here, I was reminded of what he said at Verge this year, it went something like, and I'm extending his thoughts further than how he said it, "Once we figure how to do what Jesus called the greatest commandment, to love God with all our heart mind and strength and to love our neighbor as ourselves. Once we learn what Micah said the Lord requires of us which is seek justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with God. And then when we truly apply what James tells us is 'pure and undefiled religion' to look after widows and orphans, then, THEN we can move on to the other stuff." Not exacly what Hugh said, but it was along those lines. And I'll just take some fries, thanks!
Kim Tatum - August 1st, 2012 at 6:49 PM
I've shared your blog and hope others will as well. Your words are spot on!
Lisa Kelly - August 1st, 2012 at 7:16 PM
I shared this post on FB and hope it will go viral! As a Heterosexual, Christian woman myself, I could not agree with you MORE! If Jesus loves ME, despite all of my sin, then He will love ANYONE and who am I to try to discredit THAT? God bless you for stating these points so perfectly. Now, pass me some waffle fries and CFA sauce for my chicken strips! :p
Precious - August 1st, 2012 at 7:18 PM
Cindy - August 1st, 2012 at 7:28 PM
Crystal - August 1st, 2012 at 7:29 PM
No one said he was not entitled to his opinion. Some said they would no longer feel right giving him money. I'm sure you'd feel the same if a business stood up to say how proud they were for standing against your most strongly-held belief. Free speech on all sides.
Denise Cirillo - August 1st, 2012 at 7:46 PM
It's not his opinion that bothers me. It's that he's in the fast food business, the business of feeding people and he's using the money he makes off of that to back people who basically are "against" another group of people. He is MORE than entitled to his opinion, I think he could still give his opinion and NOT back those groups with company funds. He's speaking for his company not for himself, whether that's what he started out trying to do or not, that IS what he's done. I think he should put that money into helping to feed the poor and the hungry. Put it into cancer or other disease research funds. I also don't think it's right that Target and Home Depot are backing gay marriage. Once again, they aren't in the business of weddings, divorces, or other things that have to do with a marriage. Target could clothe the poor and Home Depot could help build houses for the homeless.
Amanda - August 1st, 2012 at 7:51 PM
This. Is. Perfect. I'm with you 10000000000%
Carrie - August 1st, 2012 at 8:15 PM
Totally thought I was in the basement by myself, glad to see that I'm not! Thank you for showing me I'm not alone.
BTW, did you get the polynesian sauce for the nugget platter??
BTW, did you get the polynesian sauce for the nugget platter??
Peg H - August 1st, 2012 at 8:18 PM
God bless you for your loving, open heart and mind, and for having the courage to speak up along with the ability to speak clearly. Thank you. I'll bring some sides to the basement to go with those nuggets. :-)
Lex - August 1st, 2012 at 8:27 PM
Amen! I'm with you on this post but I still won't be spending any money at Chic-Fil-A. Dan Cathy and anyone else is free to their opinions, free to run their business and spend their money as they see fit. My issue is that as a result of Dan Cathy/Chic-Fil-A's opinion/policies, money that I might spend there is being tossed into the bucket that funds their "charitable" arm goes to organizations that are known hate groups. So, props to Dan Cathy to standing by his beliefs, but I'll chose not to add any of my money to their "charities."
Melissa - August 1st, 2012 at 8:39 PM
This is so where my heart is on the whole thing. Thank you.
Mia - August 1st, 2012 at 9:53 PM
Love this so much. THANK you! Enough is enough.
Jane - August 1st, 2012 at 10:01 PM
Your article struck me as pretty nonsensical. As citizens, we are free to our opinion and we most certainly have to face the financial consequences for that opinion (Your statement of "we are supposed to have the freedom to hold and express in this country without threat of commercial retribution." is a very bizarre one...where is that written anywhere??). Commercial retribution is a cornerstone of our democracy (civil rights boycotts, anyone??)
You seem to be saying he should think what he wants and we should still buy his food because those are completely separate. But, if I disagree with this man's beliefs, it is fair enough to boycott his products- his free speech and mine, too. And he is not just stating beliefs in a neutral, personal way- in fact, he is actively attacking gays by donating millions of his COMPANY's dollars to various anti-gay groups. And as a community, these cities also have the right to bar companies that discriminate and offend members of their community. If this company donated millions of dollars to the KKK, I wouldn't want them in my town either. Sure, he can have free speech- but as a community, we don't have to put up with it.
Finally, my biggest beef with your article is you spend the majority of it defending Chik-Fil-A and then conclude by saying you are beyond it all by choosing to focus on love, Jesus, etc. However, by this point in the article, you have lost all credibility by using so much of your entry doing the EXACT OPPOSITE. Your defense of Chik-Fil-A was as polarizing as all the "noise" you claim to dislike. Reading this article was almost like the right hand having no idea what the left hand was up to... I think your point would have been better made if you had just stuck to the concluding thoughts and left the soapbox comments on Chik-Fil-A out.
You seem to be saying he should think what he wants and we should still buy his food because those are completely separate. But, if I disagree with this man's beliefs, it is fair enough to boycott his products- his free speech and mine, too. And he is not just stating beliefs in a neutral, personal way- in fact, he is actively attacking gays by donating millions of his COMPANY's dollars to various anti-gay groups. And as a community, these cities also have the right to bar companies that discriminate and offend members of their community. If this company donated millions of dollars to the KKK, I wouldn't want them in my town either. Sure, he can have free speech- but as a community, we don't have to put up with it.
Finally, my biggest beef with your article is you spend the majority of it defending Chik-Fil-A and then conclude by saying you are beyond it all by choosing to focus on love, Jesus, etc. However, by this point in the article, you have lost all credibility by using so much of your entry doing the EXACT OPPOSITE. Your defense of Chik-Fil-A was as polarizing as all the "noise" you claim to dislike. Reading this article was almost like the right hand having no idea what the left hand was up to... I think your point would have been better made if you had just stuck to the concluding thoughts and left the soapbox comments on Chik-Fil-A out.
↳
Me Too - August 2nd, 2012 at 6:02 AM
This is what I stopped by to post. Well said. Dan Cathy spoke the "opinion" of Chick-fil-a. That his personal opinion is the same is merely because his father instilled the same values in the company that he instilled in his son.
JoAnn - August 1st, 2012 at 10:10 PM
God bless you for speaking your heart. I feel just as you do, I would love to join you in the basement.
Leann - August 1st, 2012 at 10:11 PM
I thought I was the only one who felt this way. Thank you for the basement :)
Emily - August 1st, 2012 at 10:22 PM
I'm also in the basement. Because there is so much in this world that is more important than what other fallible humans think.
Name - August 1st, 2012 at 11:12 PM
I think this is one of the most humble writings I have seen on all the stuff going on.......Jesus loves us sinners (that's everyone) just not the sin.......and I'm on my way to the basement......wonderful post!
Alan Mercer - August 1st, 2012 at 11:38 PM
This is so perfectly written and stated..THANK YOU!
Carma - August 1st, 2012 at 11:54 PM
So. Much. Better. than what was in my head. Thanks for saying it for me!
Ronni - August 2nd, 2012 at 12:58 AM
Wow, who are you and how did you read my mind!? I will join you in the basement! thanks for putting down in writing what's in my head
Hannah - August 2nd, 2012 at 1:08 AM
As a college-aged believer living in the Bible Belt, I often find myself resentful of the Church and all the nitpicking and constant harping on the sins of others. And then I beat myself up because I'm always focusing on the sins of those in the Church--seeing my own hypocrisy kills me! But this was so refreshing to read for so many reasons. So thank you!
crazy - August 2nd, 2012 at 1:32 AM
YES!! AMEN!!!!
I'm a Christian that has stopped attending church. I believe in the Bible, not in people.
I'm a Christian that has stopped attending church. I believe in the Bible, not in people.
david Bunker - August 2nd, 2012 at 7:26 AM
When Christians elevate a free speech issue above the graciousness
Jarrell - August 2nd, 2012 at 8:09 AM
This post really lifted up my spirits. It echos exactly how I feel about the current situation. U.S culture is so quick to respond, but never to think and never to see that sometimes pointless crap is just that. Pointless crap. And I think if more people held that world-view, of we got to love and keep it moving, we'd be SO MUCH better as a global society. Not the chastising love promoted by so many prominent political/religious figures. But that love that is of acceptance and understanding that your life is yours mine is mine. Why Chick-FIl-A felt to make the statement in the first place is something I can not fathom, but why cities are getting all bent out of shape is something else I can't fathom. Stop trying to make each other bleed, because we are almost dried up.
Susan Brown - August 2nd, 2012 at 8:16 AM
I'll join you in the basement.
Heather - August 2nd, 2012 at 8:24 AM
Well said, Jen. It has rubbed me wrong all week and you have written what was in my heart.
Patty - August 2nd, 2012 at 8:37 AM
This seems to me to be just another way to get people to be happy to "be on the bus, so what if they have to sit in the back." Stating "We hate that 25,000 people will die today of hunger and we’re arguing gay marriage again." is just another way to minimize this issue - both are worthy of addressing, no one said you could only pick one. As far as I am concerned it is a Christian issue, and that is fine - don't let me get married in your church, that's ok, and not what I'm asking for. I am saying I want and deserve the right as an adult to enter into a legal contract with another adult, regardless of the sex of either.
↳
Ben - August 2nd, 2012 at 3:29 PM
Patty, that is right on the nose!
Robert - August 2nd, 2012 at 8:39 AM
The largest religions in the world may be different in methods and practice, but at the core of each is the appreciation and celebration of the single most important capacity every human shares: love. It gets too easy to forget that word, that idea, that power when people switch it to hate in order to justify their right to love. Love isn't justified; it just is. Thank you for sheltering love from the storms of good intentions gone wrong.
Erin - August 2nd, 2012 at 9:20 AM
Thank you for sharing and Amen! I first heard this read on the bert show this morning here in Atlanta. This is my heart as well and makes me smile.
Marci Potter - August 2nd, 2012 at 9:42 AM
Excellent, cogent, reasonable. Thank you and God bless you! This was a great read.
Kristen - August 2nd, 2012 at 10:02 AM
Amen
Francis - August 2nd, 2012 at 10:14 AM
Wonderful. I have not much time ( I am at work )
The problem is, the true message of Jesus is SO radical and SO uncomfortable that very few churches really teach it.
The problem is, the true message of Jesus is SO radical and SO uncomfortable that very few churches really teach it.
Lynette - August 2nd, 2012 at 10:30 AM
Amen. :)
Amanda - August 2nd, 2012 at 11:00 AM
Thank you so much. I am a young Christian who has been really struggling through political identity lately. I lean left, but find none of my brothers and sisters on my side. I see TONS of believers spewing the hate propaganda from the right, or keeping their mouths shut about all social issues. I agree with everything you said. I am not the only one. Thank you.
Denise McCaskill - August 2nd, 2012 at 11:12 AM
That is the most well spoken, well written piece I have read in a very long time. Congrats to you. I am going to share this with my friends and hope that they will enjoy the content as much as I did.
Beka - August 2nd, 2012 at 11:12 AM
Amen
Mechelle H. - August 2nd, 2012 at 11:20 AM
I could not agree more with her summary of how Christians are to behave and treat others. My problem is with the basement. If all Christians, those who live in step with the Spirit, and are known by the fruit of the Spirit that is demonstrated evey day, if we all go to the basement, the only Christ the world will know is a false one. We are called to be salt and light, not to hide in the basement and wait for the world to come to us. We have to be "in the world but not of the world" so the world really sees Jesus. True love, real love, doesn't always mean saying what everyone wants to hear. Real love is honest and gentle and kind and still honest. Don't stay in the basement too long. The world needs the light of Jesus Christ and they don't even know it.
Bill Pendley - August 2nd, 2012 at 11:35 AM
Great words.
It's so weird that I am reading your comment because I walked into work with so much anxiety about this, and what people are saying. I am really trying to process the whole thing. One thing I thought about this morning was the fact that whenever church and state cross paths it becomes an immediate debate.. I think of Jesus standing in front of Pilot being accused of a crime.. Pilot couldn't find fault but the mob began screaming to the point of him giving in.. The more I read God's word not only do the positive things strengthen my faith, but the sin of the world strengthens it to the same degree..
It's so weird that I am reading your comment because I walked into work with so much anxiety about this, and what people are saying. I am really trying to process the whole thing. One thing I thought about this morning was the fact that whenever church and state cross paths it becomes an immediate debate.. I think of Jesus standing in front of Pilot being accused of a crime.. Pilot couldn't find fault but the mob began screaming to the point of him giving in.. The more I read God's word not only do the positive things strengthen my faith, but the sin of the world strengthens it to the same degree..
Tim - August 2nd, 2012 at 12:15 PM
I find it interesting how many people believe they know what Jesus would say on this and many other topics. When I read the New Testament, it always seems to me that those people are the ones who found themselves quite surprised by what Jesus had to say. Of course we always want to be like Jesus and follow his example, but the reality is we are far more like Simon Peter -- we deny Jesus every day. There is the friend that needs to hear from us but we were too busy to call. There is the kid at practice that needs encouragement but we are too busy trying to win the game. There are the people who need to hear the Good News and need to hear it from us but it is okay that they don't because we put money in the offering plate. And we need to be involved with a group of Christians that can help us when we stumble and help us share the burden of our own journey, but we can't because the kids have music practice and we're busy with work and the big game is on TV, and and and ...
We all sin. The Jesus I read about cannot be so easily put in a box. How can we dig in our heels on this argument when there are so many other things in the world that we fail Him at -- miserably -- every single day? If we put half energy into what we're FOR as we put into what we're AGAINST, the world would be a lot closer to achieving His Kingdom on Earth.
Blessings upon everyone.
We all sin. The Jesus I read about cannot be so easily put in a box. How can we dig in our heels on this argument when there are so many other things in the world that we fail Him at -- miserably -- every single day? If we put half energy into what we're FOR as we put into what we're AGAINST, the world would be a lot closer to achieving His Kingdom on Earth.
Blessings upon everyone.
Elaine Carty - August 2nd, 2012 at 12:39 PM
I went to Chickfila yesterday to support the right for free speech not to condemn or try to change anyone's mind. How well you put everything that has been brewing in my heart. I have many friends and family members who are gay/transgender. Do I agree with their lifestyle?No, but I didn't always feel that way. It was only the Lord Himself Who caused me to see truth, but He did not tell me to go beat them over the head and transform them. He is the transformer of hearts. Bottom Line---His Goodness leads us(All of Us) to repentance. As Christians, we are to let Him live in us, through us and touch others with Love. Faith Hope Love and the greatest of these is Love. We all are here to show the world Jesus, not to show what we are against. My trip to ChickFilA was to support a man who spoke his heart and I don't believe he spoke against anyone(as the media is reporting). Thank you Thank you Thank you for your eloquent, loving words of truth in love.
GAdams - August 2nd, 2012 at 1:39 PM
My sentiments exactly. Thank you for posting this.
Ashley - August 2nd, 2012 at 1:50 PM
I love everything about this post! Thanks so much for writing this
Nancy D - August 2nd, 2012 at 1:52 PM
I love you and this post and Chick-Fil-a nuggets.
Aaron - August 2nd, 2012 at 2:05 PM
if this was about women's lib, you wouldn't be in the basement. And why is it I have posted twice to see neither one of them. You talk about freedom of speech, but your monitoring what is seen on your own blog! bigot!
↳
Jen Hatmaker - August 2nd, 2012 at 2:54 PM
I haven't deleted one single comment on this entire thread, Aaron. But you can take your name-calling and hit the road.
↳
aaron - August 2nd, 2012 at 5:17 PM
Oh, I'm not name calling. Just telling it like it is.
Maybe it hasn't sunk in...NOBODY cares that this man says what he wants, freedom of speech, and I feel that's whats "taking you to the basement."
I'm, as well as many others, are more concerned with the MILLIONS of dollars that has been spent with religious organizations which actively lobby for legislation against not only gay marriage, but equal rights and homosexuality in general.
So as I mentioned in my first response, that somehow didn't make the cut, your idea of "going to the basement" is immature and cowardly. This is an issue of equal HUMAN rights, and as a women reveling in the freedom created by generations before, you should be on the front lines fighting for those without. Not in the basement eating CHICKEN with your other cowardly friends. Gay, straight, woman, man, race or otherwise.
Quite bluntly, grow a pair!
...And I did post a response yesterday, not in favor of your blog. I have no reason to lie!
Maybe it hasn't sunk in...NOBODY cares that this man says what he wants, freedom of speech, and I feel that's whats "taking you to the basement."
I'm, as well as many others, are more concerned with the MILLIONS of dollars that has been spent with religious organizations which actively lobby for legislation against not only gay marriage, but equal rights and homosexuality in general.
So as I mentioned in my first response, that somehow didn't make the cut, your idea of "going to the basement" is immature and cowardly. This is an issue of equal HUMAN rights, and as a women reveling in the freedom created by generations before, you should be on the front lines fighting for those without. Not in the basement eating CHICKEN with your other cowardly friends. Gay, straight, woman, man, race or otherwise.
Quite bluntly, grow a pair!
...And I did post a response yesterday, not in favor of your blog. I have no reason to lie!
↳
Name - August 2nd, 2012 at 10:58 PM
Maybe you forgot to send it! I'll see you in the basement...
Steve Saenz - August 2nd, 2012 at 2:13 PM
Nice thoughts but what if the people who need your help the most are above ground, caught in the storm?
↳
Patty - August 2nd, 2012 at 3:48 PM
Steve, great question.
Sue - August 2nd, 2012 at 2:28 PM
thank you!
Donna - August 2nd, 2012 at 2:28 PM
Thank you SO much for your thoughtful commentary. It is exactly what is in my heart. I will be there in the basement with you all.
Shaun - August 2nd, 2012 at 2:53 PM
Just wanted to throw out that the current CEO of the Suns is not gay. His name is Rick Welts and he resigned with the Suns and took the same job with the Golden State Warriors.
Amy - August 2nd, 2012 at 2:58 PM
Beautifully said!
Tara - August 2nd, 2012 at 3:04 PM
This post is great, and I will be sharing it with a lot of people I know who need to read it.
I do just want to clarify one point that was missed in this post, and I have not seen it in any of the comments above (unless I missed it): the original reason people wanted to boycott CFA was not due to an opinion or stance on homosexuality or same-sex marriage; it was the action taken behind it, including the choice to fund anti-homosexuality "resources" and what some would consider hate speech.
I don't know the full extent of it, and I would never trample on someone's beliefs or opinions just because they are completely different than mine (if anything, it's about guiding, not forcing/hating). I found some information here, among many other places: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-badash/chick-fil-a-5-reasons-it-isnt-what-you-think_b_1725237.html
I'm not condoning homosexuality by any means. I am for promoting the love that Jesus shared with us, and hate speech is not a part of that.
With that being said, I'll meet everyone else in the basement.
I do just want to clarify one point that was missed in this post, and I have not seen it in any of the comments above (unless I missed it): the original reason people wanted to boycott CFA was not due to an opinion or stance on homosexuality or same-sex marriage; it was the action taken behind it, including the choice to fund anti-homosexuality "resources" and what some would consider hate speech.
I don't know the full extent of it, and I would never trample on someone's beliefs or opinions just because they are completely different than mine (if anything, it's about guiding, not forcing/hating). I found some information here, among many other places: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-badash/chick-fil-a-5-reasons-it-isnt-what-you-think_b_1725237.html
I'm not condoning homosexuality by any means. I am for promoting the love that Jesus shared with us, and hate speech is not a part of that.
With that being said, I'll meet everyone else in the basement.
nat - August 2nd, 2012 at 3:09 PM
This is a great post.
I still can't get behind Chick-fil-a though. Not because of words spoken - they can think and feel however they want.
The issue for me is that they donate *millions* of dollars to groups whose sole purpose is stop gay marriage. I hate the idea of my money trickling to these groups just because I want to eat a tasty sandwich. I won't fund hate.
I still can't get behind Chick-fil-a though. Not because of words spoken - they can think and feel however they want.
The issue for me is that they donate *millions* of dollars to groups whose sole purpose is stop gay marriage. I hate the idea of my money trickling to these groups just because I want to eat a tasty sandwich. I won't fund hate.
Rita - August 2nd, 2012 at 3:53 PM
Hate the sin, but LOVE the sinner.....I am a Christian who sins daily. God loves me, but despises my sins. Everyone is allowed their on opinion, I think it's called FREEDOM OF SPEECH! Thank you for this post!!
Jessica - August 2nd, 2012 at 4:09 PM
A few quick comments:
Truett Cathy is a citizen; he has a right to an opinion. He gets to have that. He isn’t peddling theology…his currency is the Spicy Chicken Sandwich. There are certainly tens of thousands of gay folks who work for and patron CFA. No one has ever been asked to procure proof of their heterosexuality before dipping into their Polynesian sauce.
Truett Cathy is no longer in charge of CFA. His son, Dan, has been running the business since 2001
Second, the uproar from the civil rights activists have little to do with Cathy's opinions-- I don't care for them myself, but the fact that CFA is a corporation based on Christian values never deterred me from eating there before. The actual problem is that CFA is donating money through its charity, the Winshape Foundation, to fund groups like the Family Research Council (a group identified by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a hate group) and Exodus International, one of the major "pray-away-the-gay" groups in the US. (see http://equalitymatters.org/factcheck/201207020001)
Everyone, including Dan Cathy, can believe whatever they want. Call me a sinner if that's what it takes. However, the right to swing his fist ends where my nose begins. It's not his opinions that I dislike, it's the groups that are being funded with the profits from his company.
Lastly, I take issue with this:
We hate that 25,000 people will die today of hunger and we’re arguing gay marriage again.
You may not think marriage is worth arguing over anymore, but I do. And so does my wife. I've faced discrimination on the job and been fired because of who I am. I've been unable to insure my wife through my employer's health insurance plan because we're a same sex couple. (If we were a straight couple, it wouldn't have been an issue at all.)
When you've lost your job, been behind on your mortgage, and faced homelessness because you don't have the legal protections that can help keep your family stable and secure (things as simple as being married and not being fired for being gay), you can't stop worrying about whether you'll go hungry tonight yourself. It's not that easy to just forget about your own problems and focus on the other people who are starving. Statements like the one I've quoted above tell me that even here in the basement, people like me aren't welcome.
Truett Cathy is a citizen; he has a right to an opinion. He gets to have that. He isn’t peddling theology…his currency is the Spicy Chicken Sandwich. There are certainly tens of thousands of gay folks who work for and patron CFA. No one has ever been asked to procure proof of their heterosexuality before dipping into their Polynesian sauce.
Truett Cathy is no longer in charge of CFA. His son, Dan, has been running the business since 2001
Second, the uproar from the civil rights activists have little to do with Cathy's opinions-- I don't care for them myself, but the fact that CFA is a corporation based on Christian values never deterred me from eating there before. The actual problem is that CFA is donating money through its charity, the Winshape Foundation, to fund groups like the Family Research Council (a group identified by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a hate group) and Exodus International, one of the major "pray-away-the-gay" groups in the US. (see http://equalitymatters.org/factcheck/201207020001)
Everyone, including Dan Cathy, can believe whatever they want. Call me a sinner if that's what it takes. However, the right to swing his fist ends where my nose begins. It's not his opinions that I dislike, it's the groups that are being funded with the profits from his company.
Lastly, I take issue with this:
We hate that 25,000 people will die today of hunger and we’re arguing gay marriage again.
You may not think marriage is worth arguing over anymore, but I do. And so does my wife. I've faced discrimination on the job and been fired because of who I am. I've been unable to insure my wife through my employer's health insurance plan because we're a same sex couple. (If we were a straight couple, it wouldn't have been an issue at all.)
When you've lost your job, been behind on your mortgage, and faced homelessness because you don't have the legal protections that can help keep your family stable and secure (things as simple as being married and not being fired for being gay), you can't stop worrying about whether you'll go hungry tonight yourself. It's not that easy to just forget about your own problems and focus on the other people who are starving. Statements like the one I've quoted above tell me that even here in the basement, people like me aren't welcome.
↳
Jessica - August 2nd, 2012 at 4:16 PM
Oh drat. It looks like the html didn't do the blockquote correctly. Apologies for the trouble that will cause for anyone that reads.
↳
Jen Hatmaker - August 2nd, 2012 at 6:28 PM
The sentence read "We hate that 25,000 people will die of hunger and we're arguing gay marriage again." And what I meant (aimed at my general readership) was: "...and we're arguing AGAINST gay marriage again." I do care about your civil rights and about your security. You are wrong. You ARE welcomed down here. And I completely understand your issue with CFA funds headed toward anti-gay orgs. I totally do. My point was that the place for dissent is not at the government level through punitive commercial restrictions but through public consumer power.
S Lowry - August 2nd, 2012 at 5:40 PM
In 1971, I married a bisexual man who later became all out gay. This in an era when gays were still in the closet. I did not know what gay was, nor bisexual. But this man showed me in horrendous ways. When gay was still in the closet it was brutal and violent. He and his boyfriend beat me up one night and left me on the streets of San Francisco, this after multiple rapes, tying me up and leaving me in closets for full days. A Priest found me the last time (1974) and he and a nun ministered to me. I did get out, but it cost me over 20 years of my life before I was able to turn my life around.
The brutality and violence have grown to be an attack on society and business and Christians...we are experiencing it now in this country and it may just divide this country. There is a reason we stand up to it. Imagine now, that your daughter or son was me 40 years ago but going through this same anguish now? Would you stand by idly and let it happen if you knew?
The brutality and violence have grown to be an attack on society and business and Christians...we are experiencing it now in this country and it may just divide this country. There is a reason we stand up to it. Imagine now, that your daughter or son was me 40 years ago but going through this same anguish now? Would you stand by idly and let it happen if you knew?
↳
D - August 2nd, 2012 at 5:52 PM
I was married for 20 years to a heterosexual man who was unfaithful to me repeatedly and led our family to bankruptcy due to his addiction to crack cocaine. He also sat next to me in church and was admired by those around us who didn't know what I knew.
Please don't imply that homosexuals are more likely to be abusive.
Please don't imply that homosexuals are more likely to be abusive.
Hope - August 2nd, 2012 at 5:40 PM
Can I bring the chips and lemonade. I want to be in your basement.
Allison - August 2nd, 2012 at 6:26 PM
I have no doubt Jesus would be hanging out with every one of us if He were still here - loving us despite our differences and going to both the straight and gay parties. He calls us to do the same. I just don't think He would be performing the wedding ceremonies of gay and lesbians. We can not pick and choose from the Bible. It is possible to share different views and still love one another. It seems everyone has forgotten that. Standing up for your morals and values isn't hate - it's a freedom this country was built on. One we should be proud of. When my children do something that makes me angry or a friend hurts my feelings I don't stop loving them. I have gay and lesbian friends, rich and poor friends, liberal
Another sinner in the basement - August 2nd, 2012 at 6:45 PM
I was getting agree all over again reading Facebook when I should be reading the Bible... then I had to re-read this. Thanks for saying it correctly, Jen.
If you're looking for me..I'm in the basement with Jen - August 2nd, 2012 at 7:10 PM
Jen,
Thank you so much for your beautifully written sentiments. The last couple of days I have felt just heart sick at some of the things I have read and heard, I truly felt sick to my stomach. I have been thinking just how sad Christ must be at all that is said and done in his name, and the overall lack of tolerance in our society.
I don't care if your basement is dark and damp, your kind and loving spirit will make it bright and welcoming...I'm coming down! ;)
Thank you so much for your beautifully written sentiments. The last couple of days I have felt just heart sick at some of the things I have read and heard, I truly felt sick to my stomach. I have been thinking just how sad Christ must be at all that is said and done in his name, and the overall lack of tolerance in our society.
I don't care if your basement is dark and damp, your kind and loving spirit will make it bright and welcoming...I'm coming down! ;)
Ally - August 2nd, 2012 at 7:12 PM
Oh good grief- Jen, I like you, but you are doing a disservice to women with your rant of "my brain is so fragile that I can't handle current events!" Do you think if more Christians were involved in Media and Communications, in government... in the Mayor's office of Chicago an Boston, that maybe these things would be different? Go ahead and hide in the basement and gripe about the causes being "ignored" while the rest of us are trying to be light in the world!
SoSIA - August 2nd, 2012 at 8:58 PM
unfortunately Chick-Fil-A does discriminate when it comes to employment and they have over a dozen suits against them currently. not only do they "favor" married people because they work harder, but they ask about churchgoing habits and have a woman suing them now that was let go because she should be a "stay at home mom". i work for an order of Catholic Priests and have never been asked about my religious views. it may be working in my favor since i am an atheist, but i have a distinct feeling that, based on my performance, it would not be an issue.
it is illegal to consider someone's sexuality or religious beliefs during the hiring process or during evaluations in the public sector and there is a Supreme Court ruling that says local government can bar businesses that might cause harm to the citizens (commonly used to close down strip clubs or adult oriented stores).
it is illegal to consider someone's sexuality or religious beliefs during the hiring process or during evaluations in the public sector and there is a Supreme Court ruling that says local government can bar businesses that might cause harm to the citizens (commonly used to close down strip clubs or adult oriented stores).
Amy Tilson - August 2nd, 2012 at 9:31 PM
Scooch over and pass the honey. There's so much plankeye going around - I'm sure I've probably got a bad case of it myself. I bet there's some pretty harsh lighting and lots of mirrors down in there as well. Oh well, a little reason and some good ole self-examination might do us all some good. I once heard a saying that seems to work in almost any situation: you have 2 ears and 1 mouth, use them in that proportion.
Paula - August 2nd, 2012 at 9:58 PM
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything
Matt S - August 2nd, 2012 at 10:19 PM
I have no desire to depart to the basement (and I do not believe you do either). No man is an island, after all. We need you up here, in the midst of the chaos offering grace and peace and love to the rest, to the gay and gay-haters alike.
The voice of mercy is needed above ground (and it rung true in this post!)
The voice of mercy is needed above ground (and it rung true in this post!)
Abby Mills - August 2nd, 2012 at 11:02 PM
Jen,
I truly appreciate such wise and loving words. We have been bombarded with such negative discourse from both sides, and it has been disheartening! This is a message that everyone should be listening to. I don't understand why people feel as though they need to point fingers and blame, or draw lines in the sand and then stab everyone else with the stick. It's time people started asking appropriate and respectful questions, instead of demanding answers. Then we can get to the deep heart talk, a new discourse, that will allow us to see each other with more loving and compassionate eyes.
THANK YOU AND WELL SAID!
I truly appreciate such wise and loving words. We have been bombarded with such negative discourse from both sides, and it has been disheartening! This is a message that everyone should be listening to. I don't understand why people feel as though they need to point fingers and blame, or draw lines in the sand and then stab everyone else with the stick. It's time people started asking appropriate and respectful questions, instead of demanding answers. Then we can get to the deep heart talk, a new discourse, that will allow us to see each other with more loving and compassionate eyes.
THANK YOU AND WELL SAID!
Jason S - August 3rd, 2012 at 3:07 AM
Maybe it is possible that Jesus loves gays AND Chick-fil-a.
Deb - August 3rd, 2012 at 8:38 AM
http://thecripplegate.com/love-hate-and-homosexuality/
Dave - August 3rd, 2012 at 8:56 AM
That's great! However, if you ordered a Chick-Fil-A nugget platter, you'll be labeled a "hater" just like everybody else and won't have an opportunity to share that love!
Lisa - August 3rd, 2012 at 9:05 AM
I'm retreating from the storm because I have my own demons to worry about right now. The amount of grace that has been extended to me in the past 4 months is changing my life. I am a sinner, undeserving of God's grace, but alas, grace is being heaped upon me in buckets. I will gladly join you in the basement and simply be kind to everyone there.
Thank you for your post!
Thank you for your post!
Melanie - August 3rd, 2012 at 10:44 AM
Thank you! This is what my heart has been screaming!!!!
Name - August 3rd, 2012 at 10:57 AM
Great post!.... I'm coming for the Chicken nuggets!!! Are there any left???
Blake Spencer - August 3rd, 2012 at 12:38 PM
I'm not retreating or hiding. I did that for 48 years of my life. A high school friend snipped back at me that her corner of the church (the conservative evangelical kind) has taken too long to show up and speak out. And yet, I hid in the darkness of the basement because of so many words hurled at me through out my life. In the dark, you could pretend that no one else saw you our noticed that you were different. In the dark it seemed safer.
It took years for me to understand that life in secluded retreat for whatever reason isn't really life at all. Oh sure I lived life in those 48 years. I was married, had children....have children....I loved and was loved. But I was secluded and ultimately lonely and afraid and could not find the space enough to love myself.
I took the first steps out of the basement...out of seclusion because of a direct revelation from God...an invitation. Come out Blake! It's time. I trust God's invitation now...more than I trust any other words.
I can't go to the basement. I just stepped out of it....into life.
I can't go to the basement. I finally have courage and joy enough to live.
I so understand the desire to go into the basement. But trust me....life is limited down there. And yet....in the same breath....I invite you to go down into the basement. There you will find many who are hiding....and who are hurt. There you will have the opportunity to offer ministry....to listen and to love in more profound ways.
I learned how to love in profound ways in the seclusion of the basement. You just helped me to understand this. Thank you. I'm able now to live in the open.....this is the blessing God has showered upon me.
It took years for me to understand that life in secluded retreat for whatever reason isn't really life at all. Oh sure I lived life in those 48 years. I was married, had children....have children....I loved and was loved. But I was secluded and ultimately lonely and afraid and could not find the space enough to love myself.
I took the first steps out of the basement...out of seclusion because of a direct revelation from God...an invitation. Come out Blake! It's time. I trust God's invitation now...more than I trust any other words.
I can't go to the basement. I just stepped out of it....into life.
I can't go to the basement. I finally have courage and joy enough to live.
I so understand the desire to go into the basement. But trust me....life is limited down there. And yet....in the same breath....I invite you to go down into the basement. There you will find many who are hiding....and who are hurt. There you will have the opportunity to offer ministry....to listen and to love in more profound ways.
I learned how to love in profound ways in the seclusion of the basement. You just helped me to understand this. Thank you. I'm able now to live in the open.....this is the blessing God has showered upon me.
Stephanie - August 3rd, 2012 at 12:57 PM
Thank you for this post. If only more people understood this, the world would be a much better place!
Laurie - August 3rd, 2012 at 3:16 PM
AMEN!!! Let's start loving people more unconditionally and hating less.....
Lindsey McLain - August 3rd, 2012 at 4:45 PM
Thankyou for a beautiful, humble and humanely written article that is not left, right or advancing a platform. . If only I would have been so talented to have written!!!!!! You truly have a gift and struck a perfect chord in my soul!
Lindsey McLain
Lindsey McLain
Sarah - August 3rd, 2012 at 4:50 PM
Amen! I haven't read the comments, and almost didn't click over from Joy's Hope but I'm SO glad I did. This touches a tender spot in my heart and I'm glad someone else feels the same way.
If we put as much time and energy into loving as we do hating and judging, imagine what we could do! All the money spent on the negative put twords feeding and clean water - what a difference it would make!
Thank you for taking the time to write this!
If we put as much time and energy into loving as we do hating and judging, imagine what we could do! All the money spent on the negative put twords feeding and clean water - what a difference it would make!
Thank you for taking the time to write this!
↳
Kim - August 3rd, 2012 at 6:31 PM
God help us if Bible believing Christians hide in the basement when difficult Biblical principles are questioned. I am tired of the persecution that comes from other believers. I am compassionate, I believe that I do represent the hands and feet of Jesus, but I also know the God of the Old Testament. The one the burned Sodom and Gomorrah for the sin and wickedness that had taken over. I wonder, if in that case, there were obedient and believing people who thought it would be EASIER to "hide in the basement" while others disobeyed God. And maybe, over time, they became so berried under their cowardice that Abraham could no longer find them when looking for Godly people to spare the cities. I wonder what our nation's history will be? Will God destroy this nation because believers hid in the basement while we, as a whole, turned our back and mocked him?
Bert - August 3rd, 2012 at 7:36 PM
Joe/ 29 July is correct abt Mall taking a portion of a stores profit ...also if profits are not high enough YOUR SPOT IF IN HIGH TRAFIC AREA W / HUB ETC / will be given to someone else
These agreements do exist in some large mall lease agreements
BUT LETS ALL GET ALONG
These agreements do exist in some large mall lease agreements
BUT LETS ALL GET ALONG
keight dukes - August 3rd, 2012 at 10:45 PM
i'm coming down to the basement because i'm hoping to get to make out with you down here.i was pointed to you twice this week: once from a facebook friend reading your book who declared us "personality soulmates," and again by my husband who said, "wow, this chick's CFA post is really amazing too." i finally had to send up a carrier pigeon from my own basement of moderation/frustration/embarrassment last night when a gay friend on facebook tagged me in her "im quitting fb post because of the vitriol" post. so yeah, youre a freaking awesome writer and i might be willing to put aside my pursuit of tina fey in favor of you...but only if youre down to play spin the bottle....in some figurative emotional sense that still lets me keep my hot hubby..
↳
keight dukes - August 3rd, 2012 at 10:50 PM
aaaaaaaand holy frig. make the 3 times this week. my friend troy livesay (tara is another of my violent lady crushes) sent me to your hilarious olympic tweets and my ovaries clenched and andrea "notmitchell" kramer eviscerated phelpsiepoo.
Richard J Lester - August 4th, 2012 at 12:29 AM
I en wonder why people of 'faith' argue so much?
Walt Heinecke - August 4th, 2012 at 12:37 AM
Thanks, Jen, for this. So much tiresome heat these days, so little light, and zero progress on real issues. Save me a place in the basement!
Dunri Palmer - August 4th, 2012 at 12:44 PM
Thank you for effectively voicing what has been swirling about my brain! Can we have lunch?
Daniel - August 4th, 2012 at 2:16 PM
Jen, I liked the post. I'm not so sure I want to go down to the basement. I think I will remain upstairs so that I can continue to be salt and light as the Bible has instructed me to be. I trust the Hols Spirit to give me the wisdom, the compassion, and the direction when needed. I think a lot of this on the Christian side got out of whack is because we strayed from God's word. No, I will stay upstairs and fight the good fight, run the good race, with love and most of all, the glory of God.
Phil - August 4th, 2012 at 3:02 PM
XXXXXXXXX
Jen: (May I call you 'Jen'?) I moved from Kansas (where I had lived all of my 61 years) to Florida about eight years. I have enjoyed living here in Florida, except for this nagging feeling that something was missing. And (other than the fact that they don have dirt [real dirt] down here...) your words made me realize what that missing piece is.... Basements! There are no basements!
But, of course, there is no need for basements down here. The tornadoes, which do show up, once in a while, are approximately 23 ½ inches wide, travel about seven feet, and, occasionally, knock down a mailbox, or two. The hurricanes, of course, are a different matter. However, there is usually enough time to get in your car and drive north, playing chicken with Albert, or Beth, o Charlie, etc., until it runs out of steam.
The point being: I would love to join you folks in your basement! I would love to listen to why you feel like you do and would love to say why I agree, or disagree. Without being told that I am going to Hell. Without being told that Jesus love me (but not really).
Uh, but I hope it's okay if I bring KFC. (I really don't care for Chick-Fil-A. Not because of any disagreement with them. I jest don't care for their chicken. [shrug])
Peace
Jen: (May I call you 'Jen'?) I moved from Kansas (where I had lived all of my 61 years) to Florida about eight years. I have enjoyed living here in Florida, except for this nagging feeling that something was missing. And (other than the fact that they don have dirt [real dirt] down here...) your words made me realize what that missing piece is.... Basements! There are no basements!
But, of course, there is no need for basements down here. The tornadoes, which do show up, once in a while, are approximately 23 ½ inches wide, travel about seven feet, and, occasionally, knock down a mailbox, or two. The hurricanes, of course, are a different matter. However, there is usually enough time to get in your car and drive north, playing chicken with Albert, or Beth, o Charlie, etc., until it runs out of steam.
The point being: I would love to join you folks in your basement! I would love to listen to why you feel like you do and would love to say why I agree, or disagree. Without being told that I am going to Hell. Without being told that Jesus love me (but not really).
Uh, but I hope it's okay if I bring KFC. (I really don't care for Chick-Fil-A. Not because of any disagreement with them. I jest don't care for their chicken. [shrug])
Peace
Rita White - August 4th, 2012 at 11:18 PM
I totally agree! Thank you for writing this... I had a similar post on FB about it using the scriptures I found in the bible about love. It would be great to know more ppl with such an open mind and heart. Thank you again for your loving approach to this over publicized topic.
Dusty - August 5th, 2012 at 12:38 AM
Wow, can't believe what I just read! Christians in BASEMENTS!!!
Homosexuals come out of the closet and yell at Christians and the Christians go into the basement? What happened to the great commission? What happened to the greatest commandment? Love God. If you love God, you will share His love to others.
What about second greatest commandment, love your neighbor as yourself. If you love yourself (Christian) then you have told yourself that there is a hell and that without Christ, your SIN, any and ALL sin, has separated you for the heavenly father. You love yourself so much that you have learned what sin is and repented from it.
Are you loving your neighbor by hiding in the Basement? Are you loving your neighbor by not sharing the truth of the Gospel? That ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God? If you continue in your sin, you have not repented and the light of Christ is not in you, and you condemn yourself to hell.
If you Love yourself so much to learn about your sins, repent from your sins, and turn to Christ, are you not called to do the same to your neighbor? I maintain that you truly do not love your neighbor, nor God, if you do not share the Gospel to them and help them to understand sin and how their sin will eternally damn them to hell.
Christ pointed out to the rich man his sin.
Christ pointed out the sin of the woman at the well.
Christ pointed out the sin of the Pharisee when they were going to stone the woman who was caught in the act of adultery.
Christ tells the invalid in Bethesda to "Sin no more".
Zacchaeus turns from his sin and Christ says "Salvation has come to this house."
The list goes on. Christ helped people understand their sin so they could repent.
So, all Christians reading and agreeing with this "blog"...
Stand UP for Christ. Share the Truth in Love. Help your neighbor to see that their sin, ALL SIN, will send them to hell. If they do not repent, AND TURN, from their sins, they are going to hell.
God has not called us to be in a basement, but to be in a world and not of the world. We are sent out as sheep among wolves, but fear not. Christ has overcome the world!
Christians, it is time for us all to be the salt and light we are called to be. Share the gospel, call for people to repent, help your neighbor to escape hell in Christ's name!
Homosexuals come out of the closet and yell at Christians and the Christians go into the basement? What happened to the great commission? What happened to the greatest commandment? Love God. If you love God, you will share His love to others.
What about second greatest commandment, love your neighbor as yourself. If you love yourself (Christian) then you have told yourself that there is a hell and that without Christ, your SIN, any and ALL sin, has separated you for the heavenly father. You love yourself so much that you have learned what sin is and repented from it.
Are you loving your neighbor by hiding in the Basement? Are you loving your neighbor by not sharing the truth of the Gospel? That ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God? If you continue in your sin, you have not repented and the light of Christ is not in you, and you condemn yourself to hell.
If you Love yourself so much to learn about your sins, repent from your sins, and turn to Christ, are you not called to do the same to your neighbor? I maintain that you truly do not love your neighbor, nor God, if you do not share the Gospel to them and help them to understand sin and how their sin will eternally damn them to hell.
Christ pointed out to the rich man his sin.
Christ pointed out the sin of the woman at the well.
Christ pointed out the sin of the Pharisee when they were going to stone the woman who was caught in the act of adultery.
Christ tells the invalid in Bethesda to "Sin no more".
Zacchaeus turns from his sin and Christ says "Salvation has come to this house."
The list goes on. Christ helped people understand their sin so they could repent.
So, all Christians reading and agreeing with this "blog"...
Stand UP for Christ. Share the Truth in Love. Help your neighbor to see that their sin, ALL SIN, will send them to hell. If they do not repent, AND TURN, from their sins, they are going to hell.
God has not called us to be in a basement, but to be in a world and not of the world. We are sent out as sheep among wolves, but fear not. Christ has overcome the world!
Christians, it is time for us all to be the salt and light we are called to be. Share the gospel, call for people to repent, help your neighbor to escape hell in Christ's name!
Dusty - August 5th, 2012 at 10:07 AM
Where is the basement idea biblical? I thought that to myself and realized that it is biblical. Or at least there is a biblical account of this sort of thinking and action.
I found this account in the book of Jonah. God calls Jonah to witness to a group of people and he runs from the Lords calling for him and he finds himself in the belly of a great fish. Only after Jonah repents and does what the Lord has called him to do, witness to the people of Nineveh, Jonah is spit out of the great fish.
Now, Christians, it is better to be spit out of the great fish and do what the Lord has called you to do, go out and make disciples of all nations, than to have Christ spit you out of his mouth.
For those of you who agree with this blog, now is your time for you to be like Jonah and heed the Lord's calling to be His witnesses to all nations.
Witness to ALL SINNERS and share the Gospel in Love.
Be like Jonah, all you Christians, obey the Lord and help others escape hell!
I found this account in the book of Jonah. God calls Jonah to witness to a group of people and he runs from the Lords calling for him and he finds himself in the belly of a great fish. Only after Jonah repents and does what the Lord has called him to do, witness to the people of Nineveh, Jonah is spit out of the great fish.
Now, Christians, it is better to be spit out of the great fish and do what the Lord has called you to do, go out and make disciples of all nations, than to have Christ spit you out of his mouth.
For those of you who agree with this blog, now is your time for you to be like Jonah and heed the Lord's calling to be His witnesses to all nations.
Witness to ALL SINNERS and share the Gospel in Love.
Be like Jonah, all you Christians, obey the Lord and help others escape hell!
↳
Phil - August 5th, 2012 at 2:35 PM
Dusty: Where, in the Bible, do you find blogs (and yet you're here)? The Bible says to 'witness' not 'witless, which is the way you are coming across... As Jen says, regarding converts into Christianity: "How's that going?"
↳
Dusty - August 5th, 2012 at 8:54 PM
Phil, it is actually going well. The more you share the Gospel, and the truth about sin, the more people hear and the more people come to Christ. Interesting how you throw jabs at me but actually say nothing. Everything I said is backed by scripture. Show me how I am wrong. If you are a Christian, then read the scripture and bring some substance next time you share anything. If you are not, then my words about the bible don't really mean much to you, so I will not waste any more time with you.
For everyone else, here is a fantastic ministry: http://www.exodusinternational.org/
For everyone else, here is a fantastic ministry: http://www.exodusinternational.org/
Misty Gilliland - August 5th, 2012 at 10:08 AM
Dusty, you've missed the point entirely. The writer isn't backing down or hiding, she was drawing a comparison to something she understood firsthand. What I glean from this writing is we can have this basement mentality and share it with the world. I agree with your gusto and heart, Dusty, but your battle isn't here because we already agree with you.
↳
Dusty - August 5th, 2012 at 8:59 PM
Misty, would you please summarize what you think being in the basement means to you? What does it mean to have the basement mentality? Thanks!
Rachel - August 5th, 2012 at 12:55 PM
love, love, love this post. thanks so much for writing it so beautifully!
Sherry L. - August 5th, 2012 at 4:40 PM
Count me in, there is no way I would ever give up loving my gay friends, I mean come on people! What ever happened to the majority rules? Now we are a nation to where the minority rules, tells us who what when and where to believe, who you can be friends with and so on. what are we doing? My husband keeps saying we are one more step closer to communisum, not sure if I spelled it right but I think you get my drift. I just wish we could just stop, look at what we are doing and just love one another for the fact that we know God created us! As you said in your post he loves the sinners, tax collectors, all the ones that this world has basically turned its back on, Jesus shared his word with, he ate as they ate and drank out of their cups.
I say lets all get in the basement and let the tornado take the rest.
Thank you Jen for putting this out there! I am with you, I just wasn't quite as loud as you, lol. Thank you for being the voice I didn't have.
I say lets all get in the basement and let the tornado take the rest.
Thank you Jen for putting this out there! I am with you, I just wasn't quite as loud as you, lol. Thank you for being the voice I didn't have.
karen - August 6th, 2012 at 4:51 AM
Edmund Burke. "The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing."
http://www.owldolatrous.com/?p=288
http://www.owldolatrous.com/?p=288
K - August 6th, 2012 at 9:41 AM
Here's the thing: people who hide in basements lose their influence on society.
Of course we should never bludgeon people with scripture in the political arena. Of course we should never stoop to ad hominems or sweeping generalizations. Our political message should come with the same gentleness and love that Jesus showed.
But some things are worth standing for. If the only answer to societal decay Christians can offer is retreat to our basements, we will lose the battle for this nation and ultimately the battle for the souls of the very people we're trying to remain relevant to.
I grant that this is an unpopular sentiment and I might be labeled a judgemental right winger and a homophobe, but courage comes from doing what is right no matter how despised you may become, even from those who share the name of Christ with you.
Of course we should never bludgeon people with scripture in the political arena. Of course we should never stoop to ad hominems or sweeping generalizations. Our political message should come with the same gentleness and love that Jesus showed.
But some things are worth standing for. If the only answer to societal decay Christians can offer is retreat to our basements, we will lose the battle for this nation and ultimately the battle for the souls of the very people we're trying to remain relevant to.
I grant that this is an unpopular sentiment and I might be labeled a judgemental right winger and a homophobe, but courage comes from doing what is right no matter how despised you may become, even from those who share the name of Christ with you.
Melissa - August 6th, 2012 at 1:16 PM
This is the same tune I have been singing! Nobody is going to be won over in a bitter arguement, ever. It is true whether you are talking religion, politics, life, etc. Love is what makes all the difference. Thank you! Joining you in the basement.
Caitlynne - August 6th, 2012 at 2:18 PM
This is beautiful and perfect. I wish everybody could read this and live it. The basement sounds like a great place.
Zac - August 6th, 2012 at 8:34 PM
Thank you for putting into words what I have been thinking!
immaccon - August 7th, 2012 at 3:11 PM
A generation ago, the church capitulated on the issue of divorce. Marriages come and go with a fluidity that has rendered the institution nearly meaningless. And it is no different amongst Christians as it is among anyone else. The divorce rate within the church mirrors that of society at large. We threw in the towel and conformed to society.
Now, the battle is homosexuality. It is a lifestyle that has effectively been normalized and accepted by society; the only holdout has been the church. But, it is a battle that the church is losing the will to fight. Liberal denominations are already ordaining gay ministers and performing same-sex marriage. While, at the same time, the more conservative (read: scriptural) churches are being silenced by the cacophonous cries of “hate speech†and “homophobeâ€. The battle is pretty much done and, again, the church is becoming less of a seasoning to society, but rather being seasoned by it.
The next battle, which has been underway for some time, is abortion. It started with birth control to prevent “unwanted†births and the debate will work its way through the public square until it is nothing short of unhindered abortion as a means of birth control and to preserves one’s standard of living. The taking of a life will become nothing more than a lifestyle choice. The church is again the only barrier between the sanctity of God’s law and moral mob rule. Whether or not we throw the towel in on this one will have huge consequences.
The church capitulated on divorce and is the process of capitulating on the issue of homosexuality. How can we not believe that abortion won't be next? How long before the church comes to define sin by societal norms or simply by what is illegal? How long before the church is simply a mouthpiece for the government, echoing what lawmakers (based on public sentiment) define as "evil"? Sin is well on its way to becoming less about falling short of God’s standard and simply being defined by an American Idol-style contest of ideals. That’s a contest that we will all lose.
Now, the battle is homosexuality. It is a lifestyle that has effectively been normalized and accepted by society; the only holdout has been the church. But, it is a battle that the church is losing the will to fight. Liberal denominations are already ordaining gay ministers and performing same-sex marriage. While, at the same time, the more conservative (read: scriptural) churches are being silenced by the cacophonous cries of “hate speech†and “homophobeâ€. The battle is pretty much done and, again, the church is becoming less of a seasoning to society, but rather being seasoned by it.
The next battle, which has been underway for some time, is abortion. It started with birth control to prevent “unwanted†births and the debate will work its way through the public square until it is nothing short of unhindered abortion as a means of birth control and to preserves one’s standard of living. The taking of a life will become nothing more than a lifestyle choice. The church is again the only barrier between the sanctity of God’s law and moral mob rule. Whether or not we throw the towel in on this one will have huge consequences.
The church capitulated on divorce and is the process of capitulating on the issue of homosexuality. How can we not believe that abortion won't be next? How long before the church comes to define sin by societal norms or simply by what is illegal? How long before the church is simply a mouthpiece for the government, echoing what lawmakers (based on public sentiment) define as "evil"? Sin is well on its way to becoming less about falling short of God’s standard and simply being defined by an American Idol-style contest of ideals. That’s a contest that we will all lose.
Ramsey - August 7th, 2012 at 5:12 PM
I found this post from Lexi's site and I LOVE it. I wish I belonged to your religion in the basement. :)
josh - August 7th, 2012 at 7:55 PM
Totally awesome. Jen, there is a group of people that are in the basement and hard at it in Boise, Idaho. Love it! AND (side note) I get to hang out with your husband and Hugh Halter for a day on the 22nd! We're soooo pumped!
glenn - August 7th, 2012 at 9:33 PM
Jen,
I hear you. But I wonder . . . how you would handle what was going on in the pagan world if you were living in the first century, as the Jesus movement was just getting started. They had a politically correct agenda as well. And that agenda was "you could worship anything you want, just as long as you proclaimed Caesar was Lord." If you dared as a follower of Jesus to say that Jesus, instead of Caesar was Lord, then you were ostracized from society, from participation of it at every level. Just for being an unashamed Christian, you were killed. Would you be able to stand and say, without apology that Jesus, not Caesar, was Lord?
I think, no, I KNOW that the name of the game today is that God is defined one way--love. Well, take a look in the Bible and see that the essence of God is not love but holiness. In fact, He is not holy, but holy, holy, holy. Remember also, Jesus told us that we were to rejoice WHEN we were persecuted for the sake of RIGHTEOUSNESS (perhaps as Mr. Cathy is?). We LOVE people, but we are called by God to call sin what He calls sin. And homosexual behavior, just like any sexual behavior outside of the bounds of marriage AS GOD DEFINES IT, is sin. The church is NOT being a bully when she stands for marriage as God defines it. The church is NOT hating on people when she boldly but humbly calls homosexual behavior sin. My challenge--will you call it the way God calls it? I pray you will
I hear you. But I wonder . . . how you would handle what was going on in the pagan world if you were living in the first century, as the Jesus movement was just getting started. They had a politically correct agenda as well. And that agenda was "you could worship anything you want, just as long as you proclaimed Caesar was Lord." If you dared as a follower of Jesus to say that Jesus, instead of Caesar was Lord, then you were ostracized from society, from participation of it at every level. Just for being an unashamed Christian, you were killed. Would you be able to stand and say, without apology that Jesus, not Caesar, was Lord?
I think, no, I KNOW that the name of the game today is that God is defined one way--love. Well, take a look in the Bible and see that the essence of God is not love but holiness. In fact, He is not holy, but holy, holy, holy. Remember also, Jesus told us that we were to rejoice WHEN we were persecuted for the sake of RIGHTEOUSNESS (perhaps as Mr. Cathy is?). We LOVE people, but we are called by God to call sin what He calls sin. And homosexual behavior, just like any sexual behavior outside of the bounds of marriage AS GOD DEFINES IT, is sin. The church is NOT being a bully when she stands for marriage as God defines it. The church is NOT hating on people when she boldly but humbly calls homosexual behavior sin. My challenge--will you call it the way God calls it? I pray you will
glenn - August 7th, 2012 at 9:35 PM
Jen,
I hear you. But I wonder . . . how you would handle what was going on in the pagan world if you were living in the first century, as the Jesus movement was just getting started. They had a politically correct agenda as well. And that agenda was "you could worship anything you want, just as long as you proclaimed Caesar was Lord." If you dared as a follower of Jesus to say that Jesus, instead of Caesar was Lord, then you were ostracized from society, from participation of it at every level. Just for being an unashamed Christian, you were killed. Would you be able to stand and say, without apology that Jesus, not Caesar, was Lord?
I think, no, I KNOW that the name of the game today is that God is defined one way--love. Well, take a look in the Bible and see that the essence of God is not love but holiness. In fact, He is not holy, but holy, holy, holy. Remember also, Jesus told us that we were to rejoice WHEN we were persecuted for the sake of RIGHTEOUSNESS (perhaps as Mr. Cathy is?). We LOVE people, but we are called by God to call sin what He calls sin. And homosexual behavior, just like any sexual behavior outside of the bounds of marriage AS GOD DEFINES IT, is sin. The church is NOT being a bully when she stands for marriage as God defines it. The church is NOT hating on people when she boldly but humbly calls homosexual behavior sin. My challenge--will you call it the way God calls it? I pray you will
I hear you. But I wonder . . . how you would handle what was going on in the pagan world if you were living in the first century, as the Jesus movement was just getting started. They had a politically correct agenda as well. And that agenda was "you could worship anything you want, just as long as you proclaimed Caesar was Lord." If you dared as a follower of Jesus to say that Jesus, instead of Caesar was Lord, then you were ostracized from society, from participation of it at every level. Just for being an unashamed Christian, you were killed. Would you be able to stand and say, without apology that Jesus, not Caesar, was Lord?
I think, no, I KNOW that the name of the game today is that God is defined one way--love. Well, take a look in the Bible and see that the essence of God is not love but holiness. In fact, He is not holy, but holy, holy, holy. Remember also, Jesus told us that we were to rejoice WHEN we were persecuted for the sake of RIGHTEOUSNESS (perhaps as Mr. Cathy is?). We LOVE people, but we are called by God to call sin what He calls sin. And homosexual behavior, just like any sexual behavior outside of the bounds of marriage AS GOD DEFINES IT, is sin. The church is NOT being a bully when she stands for marriage as God defines it. The church is NOT hating on people when she boldly but humbly calls homosexual behavior sin. My challenge--will you call it the way God calls it? I pray you will
↳
Immaccon - August 7th, 2012 at 10:17 PM
Well said, Glenn!
Immaccon - August 7th, 2012 at 10:23 PM
When I consider a Christian thinker, website, church, or whatever, one of the first questions that I seek to have answered is this: Where do they stand on the issue of homosexuality? Why? Is there something special, or especially bad, about homosexuality? No. But, I do think that, for our culture and our point in time, that homosexuality is something of a litmus test for how seriously one takes the Word of God. No issue is as hotly contest within the church as this and no issue has prompted so many self-described Christians to either ignore or essentially rewrite sections of the Bible in order to make scripture conform to their own political ideology. If you know where someone stands on the issue of homosexuality, you can almost certainly deduce whether or not they place God's word above their own opinion.
Now, it must be said that God does not place homosexuality above other sins as being worse but, for some reason, WE have placed it beyond the reach of divine morality. It is a sin that is justified, celebrated, taught in schools, promulgated through popular culture, established as a protected class. We have chosen to take this sin, separate it and place it above God's authority. Its bad enough that the secular world has done as much, but the fact that many in the church have done so as well, is flirting with disaster.
In Romans, Paul gives us one of the clearest condenmations of homosexuality, but what many miss is his further warning to those aren't gay but justify those who are:
"who, knowing the righteous judgement of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same BUT ALSO APPROVE OF THOSE WHO PRACTICE THEM.
As it says in The Four PIllars of the Kingdom: "To condone, to tolerate the sins of others, to justify it is just as sinful as actually doing it. Loving the sinner and hating the sin is not the same as loving the sinner and turning a blind eye to their sin. Tacit complicity in iniquity is no less damnable than being an active participant."
Now, it must be said that God does not place homosexuality above other sins as being worse but, for some reason, WE have placed it beyond the reach of divine morality. It is a sin that is justified, celebrated, taught in schools, promulgated through popular culture, established as a protected class. We have chosen to take this sin, separate it and place it above God's authority. Its bad enough that the secular world has done as much, but the fact that many in the church have done so as well, is flirting with disaster.
In Romans, Paul gives us one of the clearest condenmations of homosexuality, but what many miss is his further warning to those aren't gay but justify those who are:
"who, knowing the righteous judgement of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same BUT ALSO APPROVE OF THOSE WHO PRACTICE THEM.
As it says in The Four PIllars of the Kingdom: "To condone, to tolerate the sins of others, to justify it is just as sinful as actually doing it. Loving the sinner and hating the sin is not the same as loving the sinner and turning a blind eye to their sin. Tacit complicity in iniquity is no less damnable than being an active participant."
↳
glenn - August 8th, 2012 at 10:36 AM
Immaccon,
That, also, is well said. Let me dovetail on this with what Luther said: “If I profess with the loudest voice and clearest exposition every portion of the truth of God except precisely that little point which the world and the devil are at that moment attacking, I am not confessing Christ, however boldly I may be professing Christ.
“Wherever the battle rages, there the loyalty of the soldier is proved and to be steady on all the battlefield besides is mere flight and disgrace if he flinches at that one point.â€
This area, along with a few others, is precisely the point at which the battle is raging. If we flinch here, we are disgracing the holy name of Jesus. He died for SIN, as He defines it, not as we have. When I taught ethics at a Christian university some years back, my supervisor summed up modern thought: "The issue is not whether there is right or wrong; the issue is whether there is shame." In other words, the worst "sin" is not proclaiming whether something is right or wrong, but whether it causes shame (i.e., making someone feel ashamed).
That, also, is well said. Let me dovetail on this with what Luther said: “If I profess with the loudest voice and clearest exposition every portion of the truth of God except precisely that little point which the world and the devil are at that moment attacking, I am not confessing Christ, however boldly I may be professing Christ.
“Wherever the battle rages, there the loyalty of the soldier is proved and to be steady on all the battlefield besides is mere flight and disgrace if he flinches at that one point.â€
This area, along with a few others, is precisely the point at which the battle is raging. If we flinch here, we are disgracing the holy name of Jesus. He died for SIN, as He defines it, not as we have. When I taught ethics at a Christian university some years back, my supervisor summed up modern thought: "The issue is not whether there is right or wrong; the issue is whether there is shame." In other words, the worst "sin" is not proclaiming whether something is right or wrong, but whether it causes shame (i.e., making someone feel ashamed).
Immaccon - August 7th, 2012 at 10:38 PM
I guess Jen and her followers thought Christ was being facetious when he said:
Matthew 10: 34Â Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35Â For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36Â And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37Â He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Matthew 10: 34Â Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35Â For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36Â And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37Â He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
↳
Dustin - August 17th, 2012 at 4:28 PM
Exactly right Immaccon.
Jackie - August 8th, 2012 at 3:26 PM
Immaccon - August 8th, 2012 at 7:16 PM
A generation ago, the church capitulated on the issue of divorce. Marriages come and go with a fluidity that has rendered the institution nearly meaningless. And it is no different amongst Christians as it is among anyone else. The divorce rate within the church mirrors that of society at large. We threw in the towel and conformed to society.
Now, the battle is homosexuality. It is a lifestyle that has effectively been normalized and accepted by society; the only holdout has been the church. But, it is a battle that the church is losing the will to fight. Liberal denominations are already ordaining gay ministers and performing same-sex marriage. While, at the same time, the more conservative (read: scriptural) churches are being silenced by the cacophonous cries of “hate speech†and “homophobeâ€. The battle is pretty much done and, again, the church is becoming less of a seasoning to society, but rather being seasoned by it.
The next battle, which has been underway for some time, is abortion. It started with birth control to prevent “unwanted†births and the debate will work its way through the public square until it is nothing short of unhindered abortion as a means of birth control and to preserves one’s standard of living. The taking of a life will become nothing more than a lifestyle choice. The church is again the only barrier between the sanctity of God’s law and moral mob rule. Whether or not we throw the towel in on this one will have huge consequences.
The church capitulated on divorce and is the process of capitulating on the issue of homosexuality. How can we not believe that abortion won't be next? How long before the church comes to define sin by societal norms or simply by what is illegal? How long before the church is simply a mouthpiece for the government, echoing what lawmakers (based on public sentiment) define as "evil"? Sin is well on its way to becoming less about falling short of God’s standard and simply being defined by an American Idol-style contest of ideals. That’s a contest that we will all lose.
Now, the battle is homosexuality. It is a lifestyle that has effectively been normalized and accepted by society; the only holdout has been the church. But, it is a battle that the church is losing the will to fight. Liberal denominations are already ordaining gay ministers and performing same-sex marriage. While, at the same time, the more conservative (read: scriptural) churches are being silenced by the cacophonous cries of “hate speech†and “homophobeâ€. The battle is pretty much done and, again, the church is becoming less of a seasoning to society, but rather being seasoned by it.
The next battle, which has been underway for some time, is abortion. It started with birth control to prevent “unwanted†births and the debate will work its way through the public square until it is nothing short of unhindered abortion as a means of birth control and to preserves one’s standard of living. The taking of a life will become nothing more than a lifestyle choice. The church is again the only barrier between the sanctity of God’s law and moral mob rule. Whether or not we throw the towel in on this one will have huge consequences.
The church capitulated on divorce and is the process of capitulating on the issue of homosexuality. How can we not believe that abortion won't be next? How long before the church comes to define sin by societal norms or simply by what is illegal? How long before the church is simply a mouthpiece for the government, echoing what lawmakers (based on public sentiment) define as "evil"? Sin is well on its way to becoming less about falling short of God’s standard and simply being defined by an American Idol-style contest of ideals. That’s a contest that we will all lose.
Kim - August 9th, 2012 at 3:33 PM
Tears. This is it. This is what my heart has been screaming. Thank you for posting and giving those of us who don't want to continue this fight a voice. I have felt so squeezed by friends and family on both sides of this war. I stand squarely in the middle trying to calm the storm and love both, trying to get both to love eachother and stop the yelling. I am worn out, no one wants to listen, they have dug in and want to fight. At least I thought, now I know, there are more of us out there. Those who are ready to live in the basement. When you don't belong on either side, it feels so lonely. So much like there is no point to trying anymore....it is such a relief to not feel all alone in this madness. Thanks so much.
sara @ it's good to be queen - August 9th, 2012 at 4:12 PM
oh my word Jen, this is so good. exactly what i would want to say if i knew how to say it. i just bawled through the whole thing. i love Jesus and this whole thing has broken my heart. i want to love like Jesus loved (full of grace and compassion) and i have not been seeing much of that lately. thank you so much for this. i'll join you in that basement and i'll bring my buffalo sauce with me.
Kay Allen - August 12th, 2012 at 3:08 PM
I am joining you in the basement because my daughter and several others I love are gay. I am sick of 1. defending them to the homophobes
Kallie - August 12th, 2012 at 9:25 PM
Hi! I am a twelve year old girl. I agree with you and what you're saying. God loves all people. Don't you guys remember the song "Jesus Loves the Little Chilldren?" Don't you guys remember the lyrics? Jesus loves people who are yellow, black and white. Yes, we have a right to say what's on our mind, but it doesn't help by tearing the gay people down. They're people too, you know? What if your father was gay, or best friend, or anyone close to you that you love? Would you shun them just because of that? I have a gay friend. He's nice. I don't shun him. Why do we tear them down? We can help them. Wake up! The way I'm seeing the world today is scary! Teachers that are not allowed to preach about God in the classroom, kids getting shunned because they're different, gay people not being loved, kids hating on God, and war. This generation is horrible. Even some of my friends say this kind of stuff. I live in the Philippines and all of my friends here are saying, "Wow! How wonderful America is. I want to go there one day. I bet it is nice." Well, the way I see it right now...not so much. Just because one dude said that one little comment, he didn't mean to hurt you guys. He was just simply expressing his feelings. He is a person! He has the right to say what he feels, Yet, everyone took it the wrong way that he's trying to be all mean and stuff, but he wasn't. So, I'm out. Peace!
Linda - August 13th, 2012 at 7:07 AM
I don't eat at Chik-Fil-A because it's fast food and just as unhealthy as most other fast food. Hope there's better provisions in the basement.
Tiza - August 14th, 2012 at 10:23 AM
I'm not a Christian and I prefer homemade food. Will you still welcome me in your basement? It sounds like a much more lovely environment for my family and I than up here most of the time.
VERY WELL SAID!
Thank you :)
VERY WELL SAID!
Thank you :)
Shannon1981 - August 20th, 2012 at 6:24 AM
For whatever reason, I can't reply to individual comments. To the person above who wanted to connect- proudgenderqueerdyke@gmail.com
Buffy - August 22nd, 2012 at 8:43 PM
Amen. I am so IN the basement.
gqm - August 24th, 2012 at 9:36 AM
AGREED! Although I'll pass on the Chick-Fil-A simply b/c I don't like their food. XD
Miriam - September 4th, 2012 at 3:03 AM
love this metaphor - although much the cultural references don't make sense to me as a New Zealander these are great, great challenges you are issuing to all of us who claim to be trying to walk in the footsteps of Jesus. I am so pleased to have found this blog and I kind of hate shredding cheese too - I often find myself caught between the serious and the hilarious!
lfrlegal - September 4th, 2012 at 5:08 PM
Some people don't realize that there could be various types of people in the "basement" too. Representative of the world and it's various people. Shining the light in your corner is also OK. It doesn't mean you are hiding in the "basement" out of fear.
Repent - September 9th, 2012 at 7:40 PM
This basement is a wonderful utopia of inclusion that is leading this country into it's destruction and God's judgment. There's a different between the love of the world and love that comes from God. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices in the truth. These days people are shunning the love that rejoices in the truth while calling it "love" when people delight in "evil" in which they call good. Lord come quickly and rescue us from this basement of superficial harmony that glosses over sin and celebrates the fruits of darkness instead of the fruits of the spirit found only in Christ.
Just me - September 9th, 2012 at 9:18 PM
I had a basement conversation with a coworker Friday and it was beautiful. No feelings hurt or defenses raised. Walked away and realized the power of the Spirit speaking truth in love. Humbled to be used by God in such a revolutionary way.
Beesnbugs - September 10th, 2012 at 6:55 PM
I love debate and I used to really enjoy an engaging discourse of differing opinions. Now, what used to be an enlightening exchange of differing views has become, no matter the topic, a war in which only one side can be "victorious". I believe I will join you in the basement for I am weary.
Sarah - September 19th, 2012 at 7:54 PM
Wow...just came across your blog and this post. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Lately, we have become weary of trying to un-do the ideas that our kids hear about politics from other Christians...full of judgment and anger. Love is absolutely the answer...yes, to every single problem. After a recent conversation with our daughter, we found a letter that she had written to President Obama (http://davidandsarahb.blogspot.com/2012/09/dear-mr-president.html). We're so proud of her heart. Our whole family is ready to join you in the basement!
Daniel Blair - September 21st, 2012 at 12:47 AM
Jen, I love this article. A dear female friend of mine and I bonded over this blog when all the insanity was going on a few weeks back. This friend of mine, she's an incredible...the most incredible Christian woman I have ever met. She's just recently found her way back to God in the past few months, but you have served as a huge role model, both in your books and blog, but also in your indomitable attitude. She thinks the world of you.
So I have a favor, if possible. Her birthday is coming up, and she is not at all a materials type of woman (love that), but in trying to come up with something truly special, I was wondering if I could get a copy of your book 7 (she absolutely loved it) signed for her? I'm sure this is very very out of the ordinary, but if you see this and would like making her basically explode in excitement, please let me know. regardless, please continue to ignore the naysayers. We need more women (and men too) like you to take a stand openly. Thank you for your courage in that, and inspiring her.
So I have a favor, if possible. Her birthday is coming up, and she is not at all a materials type of woman (love that), but in trying to come up with something truly special, I was wondering if I could get a copy of your book 7 (she absolutely loved it) signed for her? I'm sure this is very very out of the ordinary, but if you see this and would like making her basically explode in excitement, please let me know. regardless, please continue to ignore the naysayers. We need more women (and men too) like you to take a stand openly. Thank you for your courage in that, and inspiring her.
Scarlet Lencher - October 29th, 2012 at 2:41 PM
Hi Jen,
Thanks for this wonderful article! I am currently basement waterproofing in provo and was wondering if you had any recommendations on product? I don't want to make any mistakes so I come to the professional!
Thanks so much, Scarlet
Thanks for this wonderful article! I am currently basement waterproofing in provo and was wondering if you had any recommendations on product? I don't want to make any mistakes so I come to the professional!
Thanks so much, Scarlet
Nikkip - December 11th, 2012 at 3:52 AM
We would gladly accept gay people into our church. I don't agree with them but, I love them and so does God. If they truly seek God and his purpose then they will be saved. I don't preach hate. We live in a very small racist community. They the "racist" have threaten to burn the church down because they don't like the way God made some of our church goer's. Jesus would proudly have come down to the basement. I'm tire of people being mean to each other. You can disagree with people without hurting them. I believe in meeting people where they are. I'm supposed to tell people how to get saved and; how to listen to the holy spirit when its telling them something. If you ignore the holy spirit it wont abide where its not wanted. Each persons walk with God and Jesus is unique. God will handle their walk you just have to lead them to God. He will get the rope and lead the horse to water if he has too. He had to get the rope with me why should they be any different? The rope and the horse are a metaphor I use sometimes. I was the horse and the hardship I had to endure to really walk with God was the rope. I'm sure I haven't seen the last of that dang rope. I'd rather have the rope that leads me to the water then the fire that only consumes me with my thirst. See God made us all with a hole something missing so that we would all try to fill it up. He knew we would eventually find him and find that hes the only one that can fill us up. His presents in our life is the water. The hole is the fire that consumes us till we fill it with him; or we don't and the fire just consumes us. Well I think I have next Sundays sermon. God Bless you all
Stacy Kid - March 27th, 2013 at 2:04 PM
Thanks, Jen, for speaking sanity. I'll be down in the basement w. you... and I'll invite my wounded friends to come with me - no matter what color their ballot, no matter who they love, no matter what they got wrong or right... you are a prophetess to our generation. Thank you for speaking truth and good sense. I won't eat the Chick-fil-a - MSG makes my tummy hurt. I'll bring the veggie tray for the gluten-free/vegan crowd - cause being thoughtful about what effects others is what it's all about.
Jacqueline Gray - March 28th, 2013 at 5:31 PM
Hi, Jen. A friend posted your In the Basement blog on her Facebook wall. I read it as my heart shouted "Yes, yes, yes" and "Amen." I have lamented for years about how we have lost our focus as Christians. You have said it beautifully. Thank you.
Suzanne - April 8th, 2013 at 1:26 PM
ugh. thank you.
Leave a Comment
Word Search
Categories
no categories
Tags
no tags
Recent Posts
Archive
855




