Jen has been a quiet superfan of David Gate ever since discovering one of his poems on Instagram and instantly texting it to six friends. A British-born poet, writer, and visual artist, David explores themes of care, community, and spiritual resilience. Today, he joins Jen and Amy to talk about his latest work, A Rebellion of Care—a powerful blend of essays and poetry rooted in tenderness, authenticity, and resistance. From writing to flour milling and homesteading, David’s life is a living practice of nurturing both self and community with intention.
Key highlights from this conversation include:
- How radical tenderness can be an act of resistance
- Why are many people living radicalized lives without realizing it, and often for things they don’t truly care about
- How homesteading is a rebellion against modern food practices
- Reimagining masculinity and what it could look like in a better world
- Building community and friendship as a vital source of joy and support in life
- How anger and joy are companion emotions
- The sacredness of everyday practices
Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde is a prominent voice in modern faith leadership. As the first woman elected to serve as Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Washington, a role she has held since 2011, she will admit, on most days, “[The job] is not as glamorous or as public as people might imagine…. except for those moments when it is.” And she cultivates those moments very carefully, “because they’re sacred.”
Those moments, she alludes to, perhaps refer to her times in the national spotlight in recent years calling out the Trump administration for actions and policies that have exploited or harmed others. In June 2020, she rebuked President Trump’s photo-op in front of St. John’s Episcopal Church during a time of national protest—an act she condemned as a violation of sacred space. And she captured national attention earlier this year at the inaugural prayer service when she prayed for mercy and justice for the LGBTQ+ community—with President Trump and Vice President Vance seated in the front row. She has been one of the clearest, calmest, and most courageous voices in public faith leadership in recent years.
Today, Jen and Bishop Budde talk about her journey from a small urban congregation in Minnesota to the public stage and Bishop Budde talks about where she draws her courage from to speak truth to power and to advocate for the excluded and marginalized, even when facing potential backlash herself.
Today, we’re taking a look back to a conversation that wildly changed the trajectory of Jen’s life and her career as an author. In 2016, which you might remember was already such a fun time, Jen gave an interview to Jonathan Merritt, then of Religion New Service, anticipating the same pro forma questions about her upcoming speaking tour but quickly found herself answering questions concerning her personal politics, her stance on abortion and feelings on LGBTQ+ issues. All of this was work that Jen had been doing internally for more than a year. So, while she was resolved in the answers she would give, what she was not prepared for was the backlash that would follow.
In this encore episode, we hear from Jonathan Merritt, award-winning journalist and writer, about what it was like on his side of that probing discussion with his personal friend. He and Jen also discuss Jonathan’s own parallel journey, growing up in the family of an evangelical mega-church pastor where he was taught that in regards to gay people, Christians were called to “love the sinner, but hate the sin,” an attitude which kept him from being open to who he himself might be—a gay man. Ultimately, it took an event that shattered Jonathan’s life into pieces and caused his private process to become very public, and to send him down the road of pursuing his identity, his faith, and his purpose.
Lisa Congdon may be an internationally known fine artist, illustrator and writer but she didn’t achieve momentum in her career until she was nearly 40 years old. Prior to that time, she felt that her life hadn’t mattered much, that she didn’t have anything interesting to say. But, a total career pivot in her mid-thirties awakened a passion in her that had been lying dormant for decades and helped her find her powerful, beautiful voice. Despite taking an untraditional path, Lisa has achieved recognition, not just as an artist, but as a leader in the industry for her work in social justice, mentoring and teaching. Lisa says making art is what changed her relationship to her story.
Today, Jen and Amy talk to Lisa Congdon about:
- What it looks and feels like to awaken to new possibilities in life
- The power of finding and harnessing your voice, something Lisa covers more in her book, Find Your Artistic Voice: The Essential Guide to Working Your Creative Magic
- How two really big things (joy and activism) can coexist in artistic expression
- Lisa’s game-changing practice of “loud quitting” the things that no longer bring joy or something positive into her life
In this special episode, we welcome Barnard College professor and accomplished author, Jennifer Finney Boylan, back to the show to discuss her latest labor of love, her book Cleavage, which examines the divisions – as well as the common ground – between the genders, and reflects on her experiences, both difficult and joyful, as a transgender American.
Jenny discusses the importance that things like nuance, imagination, patience, empathy and understanding hold in our divided world, reflecting on her experiences as a transgender woman and noting that for many, “living your best life is not necessarily a political decision, but a matter of life and death.” The ultimate thing she wants, Jenny says, is just to be left alone, to live her life and to be free.
Bestselling author, R. Eric Thomas, wrote “Here for It” in 2020 and it continues to reverberate in the hearts and minds of readers because of its timely topics and riveting personal story—making it a perfect “revisit” for our book club community! With humor and vulnerability, Eric shares about his memoir which is equal parts hilarity and heart–and what it took to write about his intersecting identities as a Black, queer, Christian man.
Join Jen and Eric as they traverse transforming the ordinary into the profoundly funny and insightful.
Book Summary:
In his memoir of essays “Here for It,” Eric attempts to define what it means to be an “other” through his experience growing up in two very different worlds — the urban landscape of his parents home in Baltimore and then the wealthy, white suburb where he went to private school. He tries to figure out how to reconcile all of this, not just these two wildly different racial and class spaces, but also his Christian upbringing with his sexuality as a gay man; the exhaustion of code switching; accidentally finding internet fame; covering the 2016 election and all of that aftermath. Ultimately, he is seeking to answer whether the future is worth it when everything seems to be getting worse. He re-envisions what could be by placing himself at the center of his own story and sharing his experiences with us.
Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Here for It or How to Save Your Soul in America by R. Eric Thomas
The Preacher’s Wife
Congratulations, The Best Is Over by R. Eric Thomas
Kings of Baltimore by R. Eric Thomas
Dickinson (TV Series)
Better Things (TV Series)
Coming in hot for our Queer Futures series, we’re bringing you an interview previously aired on For The Love’s Premium Podcast channel with celebrity Peloton instructor, Cody Rigsby. Cody has gained a devoted following through his engaging and motivational fitness classes on the Peloton platform. He talks about his memoir “XOXO Cody: An Opinionated Homosexual’s Guide to Self-Love, Relationships and Tactful Pettiness” in which he opens up about transitioning from professional dance to fitness, his relationship with his mother who struggled with addiction and bipolar disorder, and how he aims to empower others through vulnerability and self-love. With his vibrant personality and inspirational story, Cody has become a celebrity in his own right.
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Cody on Dancing with the Stars
One Peloton Community
XOXO, Cody: An Opinionated Homosexual’s Guide to Self-Love, Relationships, and Tactful Pettiness
Dancing with the Stars ft. Cody Rigsby
Jess King: Peloton Instructor
Robin Arzón: Peloton Instructor
Glamorous (Netflix TV Series)
Tiger King (Netflix Documentary)
