In this heartfelt episode, Jen and Amy welcome friends, Justin McRoberts and Scott Erickson, to delve into the tender complexities of depression, creativity, and faith. Together, Scott and Justin have built a body of work around the intersection of art, prayer, and healing, including their newest project: In the Low: A Prayerbook for the Seasons of Depression. Today they share personal stories and insights on how art and spirituality can serve as companions through life’s most isolating lows.
This episode offers a compassionate perspective on navigating mental health challenges and finding hope in unexpected places. If you’ve ever found yourself in a season that was super dark or unbearably heavy, this conversation will bring you comfort.
Today, Jen has a discussion with her longtime friend, brilliant thought-leader and activist, Austin Channing Brown. You probably know Austin from her viral first book, I’m Still Here: Black Dignity in a World Made for Whiteness, which flew off shelves in 2020 following the murder of George Floyd, as we were witnessing worldwide protests, calls for police reform, and a radical change to our racial justice systems. Countless people trusted Austin to help them unpack and understand the racial reckoning going on in our country at that time.
Now, Austin is releasing a new project that shares some of her hard-fought learnings gained since that tumultuous time. Full of Myself: Black Womanhood and the Journey to Self-Possession is a love letter to the black women, like Austin herself, who are exhausted from being everything to everyone but themselves. Across essays titled “I Love Myself When I Am Laughing,” “When I Am Awkward,” “When I Am Failing,” and more, Austin celebrates the fullness of her humanity. Each chapter becomes a mirror, asking women—especially Black women—to consider where they’ve given themselves away and what it would mean to live with self-possession instead.
Highlights from this conversation include:
- What it means to Austin to be “full of herself”—a phrase she reclaimed as an act of resistance, dignity, and spiritual integrity
- What happens in our bodies when we operate out of alignment with ourselves
- What it means to be a Black woman striving to live fully in a world that often demands her silence, her labor, and her conformity
- And the inspirational, life-saving advice that Austin received from activist, Tarana Burke
This is such a good conversation starter and one to be shared, for sure.
What happens when the faith you were raised with no longer fits? Join us as we dive deep into the journey of faith deconstruction, exploring the possibilities of holding onto core beliefs while letting go of harmful narratives.
Our guest, Mary Katherine Backstrom, built a life inside evangelical certainty, but one day it all began to unravel—in her marriage, in her career, and in her faith. Left to process a myriad of feelings no one is prepared for in a moment such at that—a misalignment of her heart and mind in respect to her faith, processing the trauma that purity culture effected on her relationships, the grief and resentment she felt over being robbed of so much joy in her early life, the mounting questions of doubt and feelings of uncertainty, not to mention the cataclysmic rupture happening within her community and the response she was getting from people bearing witness to the changes she was making.
As MK shared, “I feel like I dropped the bomb”, but the encouraging takeaway from her message today and what she talks about in her painfully honest, laugh-out-loud memoir, Not That Wheel Jesus, is, “I walked through the rubble, I danced in the fire pits with my friends, and I’ve emerged into this quiet post-apocalyptic space where I can hear my own voice. I really have no idea what comes next, but at least I have me. There’s some goodness in the quiet.”
Whether you’re in the midst of your own faith evolution or simply curious about the topic, you’ll want to listen to this episode. It’s going to resonate with so many listeners. Don’t forget to leave us a voicemail with your thoughts over at jenhatmaker.com/podcast!
Jen has been a quiet superfan of David Gate ever since discovering one of his poems on Instagram and instantly texting it to six friends. A British-born poet, writer, and visual artist, David explores themes of care, community, and spiritual resilience. Today, he joins Jen and Amy to talk about his latest work, A Rebellion of Care—a powerful blend of essays and poetry rooted in tenderness, authenticity, and resistance. From writing to flour milling and homesteading, David’s life is a living practice of nurturing both self and community with intention.
Key highlights from this conversation include:
- How radical tenderness can be an act of resistance
- Why are many people living radicalized lives without realizing it, and often for things they don’t truly care about
- How homesteading is a rebellion against modern food practices
- Reimagining masculinity and what it could look like in a better world
- Building community and friendship as a vital source of joy and support in life
- How anger and joy are companion emotions
- The sacredness of everyday practices
Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde is a prominent voice in modern faith leadership. As the first woman elected to serve as Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Washington, a role she has held since 2011, she will admit, on most days, “[The job] is not as glamorous or as public as people might imagine…. except for those moments when it is.” And she cultivates those moments very carefully, “because they’re sacred.”
Those moments, she alludes to, perhaps refer to her times in the national spotlight in recent years calling out the Trump administration for actions and policies that have exploited or harmed others. In June 2020, she rebuked President Trump’s photo-op in front of St. John’s Episcopal Church during a time of national protest—an act she condemned as a violation of sacred space. And she captured national attention earlier this year at the inaugural prayer service when she prayed for mercy and justice for the LGBTQ+ community—with President Trump and Vice President Vance seated in the front row. She has been one of the clearest, calmest, and most courageous voices in public faith leadership in recent years.
Today, Jen and Bishop Budde talk about her journey from a small urban congregation in Minnesota to the public stage and Bishop Budde talks about where she draws her courage from to speak truth to power and to advocate for the excluded and marginalized, even when facing potential backlash herself.
