Sometimes the most liberating advice comes down to just two words.
In this encore presentation, Jen revisits a fan-favorite conversation with Mel Robbins—one of the most influential voices in the motivational sphere today, and host of the #1 education podcast in the world. This episode originally stopped listeners in their tracks, and it’s just as powerful the second time around.
Together, Jen, Amy, and Mel unpack Mel’s now-iconic “Let Them” theory—a deceptively simple mindset shift that has brought immediate relief, clarity, and freedom to people navigating relationships, expectations, disappointment, and self-worth. At its core, Let Them invites us to loosen our grip on what we cannot control and reclaim our peace in the process.
In this conversation, they explore:
- The crucial difference between “Let Them” and “Let Me”
- How releasing control over others’ behavior can radically change your relationships
- What it looks like to move your sense of worth inward, instead of outsourcing it to other people’s opinions
Whether you’re hearing this for the first time or returning to it with fresh eyes, this encore is a grounding reminder: you don’t need to manage everyone else to live a freer life. Sometimes the bravest move is simply letting them—and choosing yourself.
Many of us were taught that strength looks like independence. Don’t need too much. Don’t ask for help. Don’t lean on others. And then—somewhere along the way—we find ourselves lonely, exhausted, or quietly resentful, wondering why connection feels so hard and so heavy at the same time. We want closeness, but we’re afraid of needing too much. We want support, but we don’t know how to ask for it without losing ourselves.
Today’s guest is someone who has helped millions of people name that tension—and find a gentler, healthier way forward. Nedra Glover Tawwab is a licensed therapist, relationship expert, and New York Times bestselling author of Set Boundaries, Find Peace and Drama Free. With more than fifteen years of clinical experience, she has become one of the most trusted voices in modern mental health, helping people navigate boundaries, attachment, emotional health, and sustainable connection in real, everyday life.
Nedra ‘s work consistently meets people with clarity, compassion, and deep respect for how hard relationships can be. Her new book, The Balancing Act, invites us to rethink what healthy connection actually looks like—not as hyper-independence or over-functioning, but as learning how to depend on one another without disappearing in the process.
In this conversation, we talk about:
- The major attachment styles and how they quietly shape our relationships
- Why so many of us confuse independence with emotional health
- The dependency spectrum—and how to recognize where we’re over- or under-functioning
- When closeness crosses into enmeshment, and how to find your way back
- Gentle, practical first steps toward healthy dependency and asking for help
We honestly could not think of a better person to help us wake up in the area of mental health. This conversation is tender, honest, and deeply freeing—and it offers language for places you may have felt stuck, tired, or alone for a long time. You are not broken. You are learning how to connect.
Today’s guest, Suleika Jaouad, first captured our collective hearts with her searing memoir Between Two Kingdoms — a book that traced her diagnosis of leukemia, the brutal treatment that followed, and the long, complicated journey of coming home to herself again. It was a Jen Hatmaker Book Club selection back in March 2023, and it has stayed with so many of us.
Suleika is an Emmy Award–winning journalist, bestselling author, speaker, and artist whose work asks some of the biggest questions humans ever face: What does it mean to live when life has been shattered? How do we hold hope and devastation at the same time? What does healing actually look like when recovery isn’t linear, or even guaranteed?
She is also the founder of The Isolation Journals, a global creative community of more than 100,000 writers, artists, and curious souls who use storytelling and imagination as tools for transformation. Her latest book, The Book of Alchemy, feels is a continuation of her journey — filled with essays, prompts, and reflections from over 100 contributors across disciplines. It’s an invitation to explore how we turn pain into meaning, uncertainty into beauty, and our lives into art.
Suleika speaks so generously about what it means to live in the middle — between diagnosis and remission, despair and joy, isolation and connection — and how storytelling helps us metabolize what we’ve lived through. Whether you’re a writer, an artist, someone who’s walking through your own valley, or simply trying to make sense of your story, this episode will speak to you.
KC Davis is a licensed professional counselor, an author, a speaker, and, frankly, one of the most compassionate, funny, down-to-earth voices out there. During the pandemic, she created an amazing platform called Struggle Care where she has been teaching us how to care for ourselves (and our homes) without stigma or shame. Like—if the laundry’s piled up or the dishes aren’t done, it doesn’t mean you’re lazy or broken. It just means you’re living life. It’s a gracious approach to self-care that we wildly embrace.
KC’s first book, How to Keep House While Drowning, was a total game-changer for so many women who’ve felt overwhelmed by the everyday—and now she’s back with a brand new book called Who Deserves Your Love, helping us figure out which relationships we want to invest in, which ones need boundaries, and maybe even which ones we need to step away from.
This conversation goes to some deep places. We talk about:
- What mistreatment looks like in relationships, as opposed to abuse
- The stories that we tell ourselves about another person’s behavior when we get caught up in the vulnerability cycle
- What it means to be morally neutral
- How to use a relationship decision tree to evaluate and make decisions about a relationship
- And the sticky secret to enforcing boundaries
With accessibility, humorous relatability, and vulnerability, KC is here to help us navigate the messy, complicated work of loving people and loving ourselves.
We need art and beauty now more than ever. In this very special episode with acclaimed poet and writer, Maggie Smith, she shares insights with Jen and Amy from her new book ‘Dear Writer: Pep Talks & Practical Advice for the Creative Life‘ and discusses how creativity is a gift that is present in all of us and that every decision we make is a creative act. In fact, Maggie believes that creativity can serve as a form of homecoming, helping individuals to reassemble themselves amidst life’s hardest challenges.
Their conversation also delves into the writing process and reveals the messy and iterative nature of creating art. Maggie talks about the transformative power of writing, the importance of reframing our experiences with new language, and how to maintain a sense of wonder in life, which is essential for personal growth.
Key takeaways include:
- The gift of your attention is a form of love.
- No one else can tell your story; it must be you.
- It’s never too late to start creating. And, the first draft is always a mess; embrace the process.
Jen first met Tressie McMillan Cottom the way most normal people meet – under the bright lights on the set of an Oprah special, invited by Ms. Winfrey to speak on a panel, along with other influential voices including Rebel Wilson, Amber Riley, Katie Sturino, Jamie Kern Lima, Busy Philipps and others to talk about diet culture, the harmful narratives we have surrounding our weight and our bodies, and how we can begin reframing the conversation away from one centered in shame to one focused on body acceptance. The entire studio was gobsmacked by Tressie which is fitting given that she is a prominent cultural commentator and Professor at UNC Chapel Hill. Her work explores the loaded and nuanced ideas like racial capitalism, beauty standards, the exploitation of higher education systems, but in a way that we ordinary Joe’s can understand. We knew immediately that she was destined to be a guest on our show and today is the day.
Buckle up, listeners. It was only a matter of time before our paths crossed with Mel Robbins, one of the most respected experts on change and motivation in the zeitgeist, and today is that day. Known for being the host of the #1 ranking education podcast in the world, bringing deeply relatable topics, tactical advice, tools, and compelling conversations to her audiences, Jen and Amy spend today’s hour diving into Mel’s “Let Them” theory, which is taking the world by storm, already delivering instant peace and freedom in the lives and relationships of people putting it into practice.
Together, they discuss:
- The difference between “Let Them” and “Let Me”
- Learning to release the white-knuckle grip we hold over other people’s behavior (and other things beyond our control)
- Reframing disappointment to view it as a gift (yes, it’s possible!)
- Repositioning self-worth inward, rather than leaving it dependent on others’ opinions.
At the height of her worldly and academic success garnering three Harvard degrees, Martha Beck received life altering news, and discovered that maybe she didn’t know everything. This set off a lifetime of pursuing ways to soothe her nervous system from anxiety and find freedom in a new purpose.
In a world where anxiety seems to be spiraling out of control, Martha offers a revolutionary approach to understanding and befriending anxiety. Drawing from cutting-edge neuroscience and her years of experience coaching people through what she calls the “Change Cycle,” Martha shares:
- The four phases of the “Change Cycle”
- Why anxiety is on the rise and how it’s affecting us all
- The unexpected connection between anxiety and creativity
- How to access your own creative genius
You’re also not going to want to miss Jen and Amy’s discussions before the interview on embracing the mantra “it’s never too late” and Jen’s incurable attachment to an ancient email address.
