KC Davis is a licensed professional counselor, an author, a speaker, and, frankly, one of the most compassionate, funny, down-to-earth voices out there. During the pandemic, she created an amazing platform called Struggle Care where she has been teaching us how to care for ourselves (and our homes) without stigma or shame. Like—if the laundry’s piled up or the dishes aren’t done, it doesn’t mean you’re lazy or broken. It just means you’re living life. It’s a gracious approach to self-care that we wildly embrace.
KC’s first book, How to Keep House While Drowning, was a total game-changer for so many women who’ve felt overwhelmed by the everyday—and now she’s back with a brand new book called Who Deserves Your Love, helping us figure out which relationships we want to invest in, which ones need boundaries, and maybe even which ones we need to step away from.
This conversation goes to some deep places. We talk about:
- What mistreatment looks like in relationships, as opposed to abuse
- The stories that we tell ourselves about another person’s behavior when we get caught up in the vulnerability cycle
- What it means to be morally neutral
- How to use a relationship decision tree to evaluate and make decisions about a relationship
- And the sticky secret to enforcing boundaries
With accessibility, humorous relatability, and vulnerability, KC is here to help us navigate the messy, complicated work of loving people and loving ourselves.
It’s time again for one of our favorite features on the show – Listener Voicemail Day, where we get to hear straight from you—your voices, your stories, your wisdom. Today, we’re playing a few of our favorite messages and responding to what you, our listeners, have shared with us after our most recent episodes. Whether it’s midlife realizations, hard-won wisdom, or letting go of stuff that just isn’t serving you anymore—this is about all of us learning from each other. This episode is a reminder that we’re not in this alone—your voice matters, your story counts, and we all grow stronger when we listen to one another.
If you have a thought, story or question you’d like to share with us on the show, leave us a message over at jenhatmaker.com/podcast and we might play your message in an upcoming episode. Huge thanks to Alice, Ann, Sarah, Ashley, #1 Becky and “Badass Becky” for their candor and vulnerability in contributing to this week’s episode.
Also, Sydney Hatmaker said some hurtful things about us broadcasting our bare old lady feet on YouTube and we had to take a minute to process our feelings… and discuss a new dress code policy.
Today we’re revisiting the profound biological, psychological and social shifts experienced when becoming a mother – a process known as “matrescence.” Jen sits down with science journalist Lucy Jones, who experienced a seismic identity shift that arose after the birth of her first child.
Lucy and Jen unpack groundbreaking neuroscience research and they expose the deep-rooted myths and unrealistic expectations surrounding modern motherhood. From the minimizing of postpartum struggles to the pressure of “natural birthing” ideals, Lucy reveals how these systemic fictions can breed shame, isolation and maternal mental health crises.
Jen and Lucy discuss:
- The concept of “matrescence” – the biological, psychological and social transition to becoming a mother that renders profound identity changes
- How modern cultural myths and idealized notions of motherhood as blissful and “natural” can be deeply alienating and contribute to maternal mental health issues
- The systemic lack of scientific research and societal rituals to prepare and support women through the seismic transformation of matrescence
- The need to construct new narratives, share vulnerable experiences, and build community care around the modern realities of the matrescence
In the span of a single year, Abby Wambach lost her beloved brother, her wife Glennon Doyle was diagnosed with anorexia, and her sister-in-law Amanda Doyle was diagnosed with breast cancer. For the first time, the trio who host the wildly popular We Can Do Hard Things podcast, all found themselves simultaneously lost, looking for answers. So they turned toward the only thing that’s ever helped them find their way: deep, honest conversations with other brave, kind, wise people. What resulted from those conversations was a myriad of guideposts, words of wisdom from some of the most brilliant wayfinders in the zeitgeist today.
In this episode, Jen and Amy talk with Abby and Amanda about some of the most meaningful bits of guidance that they have received from inspirational voices like Elizabeth Gilbert, Jane Fonda, Michelle Obama, Ocean Vuong, Esther Perel, Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, and others that they have gathered into a new book called, We Can Do Hard Things: Answers to Life’s 20 Questions.
Some of the conversations they delve into include:
- Why are we like this?
- How do we figure out what we really want?
- How do we let go, or forgive, or get unstuck?
- Why do we wake up every day having forgotten everything we know?
- Why self-loyalty is so damn hard for women?
In the summer of 2020, as Jen was beginning to process the loss of her 26-year marriage, there was one person walking her own similar but different journey, and understood many of the feelings of anger, grief, shame, and loss that Jen was just beginning to feel. Someone who knew how that disappointment felt.
Jessica N. Tuner, founder of the popular lifestyle blog The Mom Creative, was a few months ahead of Jen in processing the loss of her 16-year marriage to her husband and father of her three children. Today, Jessica shared with Jen and Amy what the road to recovery has looked like for her, including grieving the end of the life she thought she would have forever, the change of her identity, navigating the messy false-starts, and clawing her way back from what felt like “the floor of hell”. Jessica compiled those hard-fought lessons into a book she’s hoping will be a manifesto of hope to others, called I Thought It Would Be Better Than This: Rise From Disappointment, Regain Control, and Rebuild a Life You Love.
Maddie Corman is a seasoned American actress and playwright that you’ve seen in classic films including Some Kind of Wonderful, Maid in Manhattan, A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood, and our favorite television shows like Law and Order, Curb Your Enthusiasm, and The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel.
Most recently, she has put her creative hand to writing and performing in a very raw and vulnerable autobiographical one-woman play called Accidentally Brave, that delves into Maddie’s personal journey following the arrest of her husband on child pornography charges in 2015. Today, Maddie shares her story of navigating the aftermath, focusing on themes of resilience, healing, and redefining normalcy when life takes an unforeseen turn.
In this tender and transparent conversation, we discuss:
- How Maddie’s life turned upside down after a public personal crisis—and how she found her way back
- What led to her decision to write a raw, hilarious, deeply moving one-woman show called Accidentally Brave (now a movie on MAX!)
- What she imagined midlife would look like when she was younger versus what it looks like from where she sits today
- What it’s like to walk (or sometimes crawl) through shame and loss—and come out with more freedom, more truth, more YOU
- Also, how motherhood shifts our perspective in crisis
- What practices or people help us stay grounded in the hard moments – Maddie shares some really great resources!
- Why midlife is actually the best time to tell your story and start again
Everyone is an addict. Mr. Rogers…The Dali Lama… Michelle Obama! Mull that idea over for a minute and when you’re done being outraged like we were, join us for this enthralling conversation with one of our favorite repeat guests on For the Love – author, psychotherapist, and Episcopal priest, Ian Morgan Cron. Today, we’re talking to him about his new book, The Fix: How the Twelve Steps Offer a Surprising Path of Transformation for the Well-Adjusted, the Down-and-Out, and Everyone In Between.
People pleasing, the need to be right, being a compulsive helper, workaholism, being a knowledge junkie, perfectionism, holding on to our past suffering – these are all forms of addiction. The simple truth is, we each resort to our own methods of dealing with the harder aspects of life. For some, that solution means turning to a substance to numb our pain, which is how we traditionally think of addiction. For others, there are behaviors we employ to manipulate what we are feeling. And that’s where the rest of us fall into the sticky trap.
Ian, who also hosts the wildly popular Typology podcast exploring the mystery of the human personality, teaches us how the Twelve Steps are a trusted tool for anyone seeking to move beyond self-help to a more profound sense of awakening.
And, in a new segment called “To My Younger Self”, Jen and Amy share some deeply personal experiences that, for Amy, helped change her relationships and, for Jen, helped change how she viewed herself.
Buckle up, listeners. It was only a matter of time before our paths crossed with Mel Robbins, one of the most respected experts on change and motivation in the zeitgeist, and today is that day. Known for being the host of the #1 ranking education podcast in the world, bringing deeply relatable topics, tactical advice, tools, and compelling conversations to her audiences, Jen and Amy spend today’s hour diving into Mel’s “Let Them” theory, which is taking the world by storm, already delivering instant peace and freedom in the lives and relationships of people putting it into practice.
Together, they discuss:
- The difference between “Let Them” and “Let Me”
- Learning to release the white-knuckle grip we hold over other people’s behavior (and other things beyond our control)
- Reframing disappointment to view it as a gift (yes, it’s possible!)
- Repositioning self-worth inward, rather than leaving it dependent on others’ opinions.
Life throws some challenging stuff at us. Sometimes we rely on traditional therapies and resources trusted in Western medicine to help us through. And sometimes, we need to look to alternative and newly emerging tools to experience the relief or breakthrough that we need. In today’s conversation, Mimi Bouchard, founder of the Activations app (formerly known as Superhuman) shares her transformative journey from a troubled adolescence marked by substance abuse and self-doubt to becoming a successful entrepreneur and advocate for personal development. She discusses how her unique approach to ‘activations’ has helped her and so many others achieve emotional and mental wellbeing by utilizing unique audios that are a mix between a motivational podcast, cinematic music and guided visualization.
From guided visualization practices and breathwork to grounding, reiki, and other body work Jen and Amy also talk about other “woo-woo” wellness approaches that have been useful for them in their healing needs.
For The Love listeners have an opportunity to try Activations at a steep discount on a yearly subscription by visiting activations.com/jen.
