Podcast Category: Personal Development (Relationships)

Shannan Martin on Counterweights: Holding Grief and Joy in the Same Hands

What do we do when the world feels like too much?

When the headlines won’t let up, when grief and uncertainty sit heavy in our bodies, when we’re carrying more than we ever thought we could—how do we keep going without numbing out or falling apart?

This week, Jen sits down with beloved writer and friend Shannan Martin to talk about her new book Counterweights, a tender, practical guide for living with hope in a heavy world.

At the center of Shannan’s work is a deceptively simple idea: when life gets heavy, we don’t eliminate the weight—we learn to carry something equally weighty in the other hand. Not balance. Not denial. But both/and.

Together, Jen and Shannan explore what it means to hold grief and joy at the same time, to resist despair without turning away from reality, and to find steady ground in the middle of it all. They talk about community as survival, faith that evolves and expands, and the small, ordinary moments that become lifelines when everything feels overwhelming.

This conversation is a fitting close to our Wilderness & Wonder exploration—because if the wilderness strips us down to what’s real, Shannan helps us ask: what will hold us up now?

If you’ve been feeling stretched thin, worn down, or just plain tired of carrying it all alone, this episode is for you.

Your Kid Isn’t the Problem (And Neither Are You) with Mandy Grass

If parenting has you oscillating between “I’ve got this” and “I need to lie down immediately,” press play.

Today, we’re stepping into one of the most humbling arenas for compassion and grace: your own living room. Because fierce compassion isn’t just for coworkers and complicated relatives—it’s also for the tiny humans melting down over the wrong color cup or the soccer uniform that didn’t get washed in time for game day. And it’s for YOU, standing there, wondering how you got so activated over this nonsense.

Jen and Amy are talking to Mandy Grass—nationally recognized Board-Certified Behavior Analyst, founder of The Family Behaviorist, former teacher, and mom in a blended family of seven kids (ages four to sixteen). Yes, seven. Her house is less “quiet retreat” and more “ongoing behavioral case study.” The data is… robust.

For nearly two decades, Mandy has been translating behavior science into practical, no-guilt tools for families. Her central message feels radical in a culture obsessed with control: kids’ behavior is communication—not a moral failure. And neither is your exhaustion.

In this conversation, we talk about:

  • What Mandy actually hears when parents say, “We’ve tried everything”
  • How shame and blame sneak into parenting—and how to gently escort them out
  • Why so much of parenting work begins with the parent, not the kid (I know. We had feelings about this too.)
  • And one tiny shift you can make tonight that will cool the temperature at home (no sticker charts required)

Here’s the truth: we cannot regulate our kids if we are operating at DEFCON 1 ourselves. Fierce compassion means holding boundaries without losing your humanity. It means seeing your child clearly—and offering yourself the same grace when you inevitably lose it over bedtime negotiations.

Mandy also shares about her new podcast, The Behavior Blueprint, a grounded, step-by-step guide for parents who are tired of quick fixes and ready for something that actually works in real life—not just on Instagram. It’s equal parts instruction, compassion, and “oh thank God, it’s not just me.”

Take a breath. Your child isn’t the problem. You aren’t either. And that might be the fiercest compassion of all.

What If Desire Is the Map? A Wilderness & Wonder Conversation with Jay Stringer

Many of us were taught that desire is dangerous—something to manage, suppress, or feel ashamed of. But what if desire isn’t the problem at all? What if it’s not just about sex or attraction, but about the places we feel most alive?

Today, Jen and Amy sit down with FTL fan-favorite Jay Stringer, a licensed therapist and author whose work helps people understand the deeper stories shaping their desires—especially the ones we’ve been taught to hide, or silence. Drawing from his powerful new book Desire, Jay reframes desire not as a moral failure or impulse to eliminate, but as a signal worth listening to—one that points us toward what formed us, what wounded us, and what we are still longing for beneath the surface.

Jay shifts the focus from behavior modification to understanding the story behind desire—for intimacy, success, escape, creativity, or belonging—shaped by early attachment, trauma, and unmet needs. The conversation moves from “What’s wrong with me?” to “What happened to me?” turning desire from shame into meaning. This is not a conversation about labeling or fixing yourself. It’s about understanding yourself—how your story formed you, and how listening to what brings you to life can lead toward freedom, wholeness, and deeper connection. 

This episode also serves as the opening doorway into our Wilderness & Wonder series. In a season when many of us are navigating uncertainty—spiritually, relationally, or internally—this episode grounds us in the idea that exploration isn’t aimlessness, but formation. That the wilderness can be a teacher. And that desire itself may be one of the quiet guides helping us stay awake, curious, and present as we learn how to live inside the questions.

This is a gentle conversation, but it’s also a brave one. And we’re really glad you’re here for it.

The Wake-Up Call: What Changes in Midlife—and Why You’re Not Imagining It

What happens when the life you’ve been managing no longer fits?

In this powerful and honest conversation, Jen Hatmaker is joined by four trusted voices—Nedra Glover Tawwab, Emily Nagoski, Kobe Campbell, and Kate Bowler—for a wide-ranging discussion about what it really means to wake up in midlife.

Together, they explore the places awakening often shows up first: our relationships, our bodies, our mental health, and our faith. This isn’t a conversation about fixing yourself or rushing toward answers. It’s about noticing—naming what’s shifting, understanding why it feels so disruptive, and realizing you’re not alone in it.

From boundaries and burnout to body shame, anxiety, trauma, and faith after certainty, this episode offers language, compassion, and clarity for women navigating midlife change with honesty and courage.

If you’ve ever thought, Something’s changing—and I don’t know what to do with it, this conversation is for you.

In This Episode, We Discuss

  • Relationships
  • Bodies & Burnout
  • Mental Health
  • Faith

[ENCORE] Why ‘Let Them’ Might Be the Kindest Words You Can Say to Yourself

Sometimes the most liberating advice comes down to just two words.

In this encore presentation, Jen revisits a fan-favorite conversation with Mel Robbins—one of the most influential voices in the motivational sphere today, and host of the #1 education podcast in the world. This episode originally stopped listeners in their tracks, and it’s just as powerful the second time around.

Together, Jen, Amy, and Mel unpack Mel’s now-iconic “Let Them” theory—a deceptively simple mindset shift that has brought immediate relief, clarity, and freedom to people navigating relationships, expectations, disappointment, and self-worth. At its core, Let Them invites us to loosen our grip on what we cannot control and reclaim our peace in the process.

In this conversation, they explore:

  • The crucial difference between “Let Them” and “Let Me”
  • How releasing control over others’ behavior can radically change your relationships
  • What it looks like to move your sense of worth inward, instead of outsourcing it to other people’s opinions

Whether you’re hearing this for the first time or returning to it with fresh eyes, this encore is a grounding reminder: you don’t need to manage everyone else to live a freer life. Sometimes the bravest move is simply letting them—and choosing yourself.

When Listeners Say, “Me Too”: Finding Familiarity in Shared Stories – A Listener Voicemail Episode

In this special listener voicemail episode, Jen and Amy turn the mic outward—listening closely to the voices, stories, and wisdom of the community that makes this show what it is.

From reflections sparked by our Wake Up Call season to deeply personal responses to Jen’s book Awake, these messages trace a powerful throughline: what happens when we begin to tell the truth about our lives—and make space for who we’re becoming.

Listeners share how conversations with Lee C. Camp, John Fugelsang, Melani Sanders, and Chrissy King stirred something awake in them, naming long-held questions around faith, body, identity, and courage. Others call in to reflect on the uncanny resonance of Awake, beginning again and again with the same line: “Jen, our stories are very similar.”

This episode is tender, funny, and honest—a reminder that none of us are doing this work alone. It’s about waking up, letting go, finding language for the ache, and choosing what comes next—together.

If you’ve ever wondered whether your voice matters here, this episode is your answer.

Nedra Glover Tawwab: The Wake-Up We Need About Love, Boundaries, and The Balancing Act Behind Healthy Relationships

Many of us were taught that strength looks like independence. Don’t need too much. Don’t ask for help. Don’t lean on others. And then—somewhere along the way—we find ourselves lonely, exhausted, or quietly resentful, wondering why connection feels so hard and so heavy at the same time. We want closeness, but we’re afraid of needing too much. We want support, but we don’t know how to ask for it without losing ourselves.

Today’s guest is someone who has helped millions of people name that tension—and find a gentler, healthier way forward. Nedra Glover Tawwab is a licensed therapist, relationship expert, and New York Times bestselling author of Set Boundaries, Find Peace and Drama Free. With more than fifteen years of clinical experience, she has become one of the most trusted voices in modern mental health, helping people navigate boundaries, attachment, emotional health, and sustainable connection in real, everyday life.

Nedra ‘s work consistently meets people with clarity, compassion, and deep respect for how hard relationships can be. Her new book, The Balancing Act, invites us to rethink what healthy connection actually looks like—not as hyper-independence or over-functioning, but as learning how to depend on one another without disappearing in the process.

In this conversation, we talk about:

  • The major attachment styles and how they quietly shape our relationships
  • Why so many of us confuse independence with emotional health
  • The dependency spectrum—and how to recognize where we’re over- or under-functioning
  • When closeness crosses into enmeshment, and how to find your way back
  • Gentle, practical first steps toward healthy dependency and asking for help

We honestly could not think of a better person to help us wake up in the area of mental health. This conversation is tender, honest, and deeply freeing—and it offers language for places you may have felt stuck, tired, or alone for a long time. You are not broken. You are learning how to connect.

[BONUS] The Rest of Our Lives: A Conversation About the Long Middle with Ben Markovits

What happens after the dream you built your life around ends?

In today’s tender and searching conversation, Jen and Amy sit down with acclaimed novelist Ben Markovits to talk about his forthcoming book, The Rest of Our Lives—a story that lingers in the quiet spaces of midlife, marriage, parenting, friendship, and the quiet reckonings that arrive when the future you imagined no longer fits. The book is so spectacular, it has been shortlisted as a finalist for the illustrious Booker Prize.

Together, the trio explores what happens when the life you worked toward doesn’t quite deliver what you expected—and how that reckoning ripples through family, intimacy, and identity. Ben speaks honestly about ambition, and the grief of letting go of former selves, while also naming the surprising beauty found in showing up for the people you love in ordinary, unglamorous moments. He and Jen talk about the similarities between the fictional story that he wrote and the real-life account that Jen penned in Awake. 

This episode is for anyone standing in the middle of their life, caring for children or parents (or both), wondering how to hold disappointment without becoming hardened—and how to love the life in front of you without pretending it’s easy. It’s a conversation about endurance, tenderness, and the brave, ongoing work of choosing one another as the years keep unfolding.

If you’ve ever asked yourself, Is this really it?—and then quietly hoped the answer might still be no, not yet—this one is for you.

The Long Arc of Becoming: Voices From the Other Side of Awake

As we close out the year, we wanted to do something a little different—and a little more tender.

In this special end-of-year episode of For the Love, we’re turning the mic over to you. Over the past months, your voicemails have poured in, telling the story of what it’s been like to read Awake: the unraveling, the naming, the grief, the relief, the courage, the slow return to yourself. The messages were so honest and so resonant that we knew we needed to play some of them back—not just to honor the people who shared them, but to remind anyone listening in a similar space that they are not alone.

We’ve woven these voices together in four acts, tracing the arc so many of us recognize.

Act I — “The Moment Everything Broke”
We hear from Nadine, Allison, and Sharon about the before-and-after moments: marriages ending, bodies shamed, the deep wounds of purity culture, and the rupture that comes when the life you were living can no longer hold.

Act II — “Finding Language for the Ache”
Paulette and Inez share what it means to finally name what couldn’t be named before—untangling attachment and codependence, wrestling with faith, Jesus, and the pain of church rupture, and discovering words for a long-held ache.

Act III — “Coming Back to Ourselves”
With Kelly and Laura, we witness what healing can look like in motion: reclaiming agency, inhabiting our bodies again, joy returning, learning to cherish yourself, embracing life, committing to therapy, finding community, and being truly seen.

Act IV — “Witnessing a Life Over Time”
Tracy closes us out with the long view—what it means to trust the slow arc of a life, to be held in shared history, and to witness change unfolding over time.

If something in you woke up this year—even painfully—you’re not behind. You’re right on time. And you are certainly not alone.

Kanika Chadda-Gupta On Becoming The Woman We Are Meant To Be In The Eye Of The Storm

Today’s guest is someone who instantly made an impression on Jen when they met at a Hello Sunshine event in Los Angeles. Within five minutes, Jen thought: “Okay… she’s one of us.” Warm, sharp, steady — Kanika Chadda-Gupta has a grounding presence that makes a whole room exhale.

An award-winning former CNN journalist and producer, Kanika built a thriving career in television news before motherhood rerouted her life in the most profound way. Born in India and raised in the U.S., her story is braided with themes many of us know intimately: immigration and bicultural identity, the expectations women inherit, the invisible labor we carry, and the constant negotiation between ambition, caregiving, and our own becoming.

Kanika is the creator and host of the beloved Total Mom Sense podcast, where she distills lived experience — raising children while caring for aging parents, navigating mental and emotional load, reinventing purpose in midlife — into practical wisdom for women who are doing it all and feeling all of it.

In this conversation, we talk about:

• What happens when life asks us to reevaluate our pace and priorities
• Staying rooted during seasons of huge responsibility
• Finding yourself in the middle of caregiving
• Reclaiming agency and identity in motherhood and beyond

If you’ve ever felt stretched thin between generations, pulled in every direction, or unsure how to follow your own calling while caring for everyone else — Kanika’s clarity and compassion will feel like a deep breath. This one is for all of us standing at the intersection of who we were, who we are, and who we’re still becoming.