We’re revisiting one of our most-loved conversations from this show—an exploration of how transformation takes shape in our lives and how we can bravely meet it, even when it’s terrifying.
In this encore episode, we look back on Jen’s conversation with poet and community-builder Joy Sullivan, whose own “chosen change” became a leap toward more sanity, more love, and more joy.
After years of living according to scripts written by others, Joy found herself standing at a crossroads, feeling the pull of something deeper and more true. What followed was a radical leap into the unknown—a move that reshaped her life, her faith, and her art, including her book ‘Instructions for Traveling West’ – a collection for anyone flinging themselves into their own fresh starts.
Together, she and Jen talk about the “incremental scoots” we make before the big leap, the beauty and ache of reinvention, and how stillness can become a sacred space for clarity. Joy shares her story of walking into the unknown and learning to trust her intuition along the way.
In this episode, we reflect on:
- The difference between a change that happens to us and one we choose
- Embracing loneliness and stillness as paths to self-discovery
- Lessons that taught Joy to love herself more deeply
- Why poetry gives language to what we cannot say aloud
If you’re feeling the pull toward something new but uncertain, this encore offers a gentle reminder that change—though often uncomfortable—is where our truest selves begin to emerge.
Today, Jen has a discussion with her longtime friend, brilliant thought-leader and activist, Austin Channing Brown. You probably know Austin from her viral first book, I’m Still Here: Black Dignity in a World Made for Whiteness, which flew off shelves in 2020 following the murder of George Floyd, as we were witnessing worldwide protests, calls for police reform, and a radical change to our racial justice systems. Countless people trusted Austin to help them unpack and understand the racial reckoning going on in our country at that time.
Now, Austin is releasing a new project that shares some of her hard-fought learnings gained since that tumultuous time. Full of Myself: Black Womanhood and the Journey to Self-Possession is a love letter to the black women, like Austin herself, who are exhausted from being everything to everyone but themselves. Across essays titled “I Love Myself When I Am Laughing,” “When I Am Awkward,” “When I Am Failing,” and more, Austin celebrates the fullness of her humanity. Each chapter becomes a mirror, asking women—especially Black women—to consider where they’ve given themselves away and what it would mean to live with self-possession instead.
Highlights from this conversation include:
- What it means to Austin to be “full of herself”—a phrase she reclaimed as an act of resistance, dignity, and spiritual integrity
- What happens in our bodies when we operate out of alignment with ourselves
- What it means to be a Black woman striving to live fully in a world that often demands her silence, her labor, and her conformity
- And the inspirational, life-saving advice that Austin received from activist, Tarana Burke
This is such a good conversation starter and one to be shared, for sure.
Coming in hot for our Queer Futures series, we’re bringing you an interview previously aired on For The Love’s Premium Podcast channel with celebrity Peloton instructor, Cody Rigsby. Cody has gained a devoted following through his engaging and motivational fitness classes on the Peloton platform. He talks about his memoir “XOXO Cody: An Opinionated Homosexual’s Guide to Self-Love, Relationships and Tactful Pettiness” in which he opens up about transitioning from professional dance to fitness, his relationship with his mother who struggled with addiction and bipolar disorder, and how he aims to empower others through vulnerability and self-love. With his vibrant personality and inspirational story, Cody has become a celebrity in his own right.
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Cody on Dancing with the Stars
One Peloton Community
XOXO, Cody: An Opinionated Homosexual’s Guide to Self-Love, Relationships, and Tactful Pettiness
Dancing with the Stars ft. Cody Rigsby
Jess King: Peloton Instructor
Robin Arzón: Peloton Instructor
Glamorous (Netflix TV Series)
Tiger King (Netflix Documentary)
Who would we be if we weren’t afraid? What would our lives look like if we pushed aside our greatest fears and let curiosity lead the way? Today we’re wrapping the Fierce, Free, and Full of Fire series with one of the world’s greatest teachers on how to live in the beauty of freedom: award-winning writer and all-around good human, Elizabeth Gilbert. Liz has opened her life and poured her lessons generously into masterpieces on creative living like Eat, Pray, Love and Big Magic, plus her latest work, the gorgeous novel City of Girls. Today Liz feeds our souls by giving us permission to throw away words like “passion” and “purpose” and “balance” (which, let’s be honest, are stifling) so that, instead, we can lower the stakes and allow ourselves the delight of discovery.
Have you ever wanted to be part of an actual book club? One that actually reads the book instead of just providing classy cover for wine drinking? (well, okay, there’s still a *little* wine drinking) Then seriously, you need to join the Jen Hatmaker Book Club! Every month, Jen sends you one of her favorite books (along with a box of goodies!), and sits down with the book’s author for a podcast that’s exclusive for members . . . until TODAY! Because the April author of the month is none other than one Ms. Jennifer Hatmaker, who wrote a brand-new book you may have heard a little something about called Fierce, Free, and Full of Fire. So to celebrate, Jen and her ride-or-die girlfriends Trina, Shonna, and Jenny hopped on Skype to talk about all the hard lessons and laughs they’ve had as they’ve lived out the pages of Fierce together. Jen and the gang talk about how they met, which friend can claim eternal credit for pushing Jen into creating a sphere of influence, how they’ve learned to love their bodies and make friendships last and trust themselves to create a life that’s worthy of the women full of fire they’ve been called to be.
SIGN UP for the Jen Hatmaker Book Club today at jenhatmakerbookclub.com!
