What happens when the faith you were raised with no longer fits? Join us as we dive deep into the journey of faith deconstruction, exploring the possibilities of holding onto core beliefs while letting go of harmful narratives.
Our guest, Mary Katherine Backstrom, built a life inside evangelical certainty, but one day it all began to unravel—in her marriage, in her career, and in her faith. Left to process a myriad of feelings no one is prepared for in a moment such at that—a misalignment of her heart and mind in respect to her faith, processing the trauma that purity culture effected on her relationships, the grief and resentment she felt over being robbed of so much joy in her early life, the mounting questions of doubt and feelings of uncertainty, not to mention the cataclysmic rupture happening within her community and the response she was getting from people bearing witness to the changes she was making.
As MK shared, “I feel like I dropped the bomb”, but the encouraging takeaway from her message today and what she talks about in her painfully honest, laugh-out-loud memoir, Not That Wheel Jesus, is, “I walked through the rubble, I danced in the fire pits with my friends, and I’ve emerged into this quiet post-apocalyptic space where I can hear my own voice. I really have no idea what comes next, but at least I have me. There’s some goodness in the quiet.”
Whether you’re in the midst of your own faith evolution or simply curious about the topic, you’ll want to listen to this episode. It’s going to resonate with so many listeners. Don’t forget to leave us a voicemail with your thoughts over at jenhatmaker.com/podcast!
Jen has been a quiet superfan of David Gate ever since discovering one of his poems on Instagram and instantly texting it to six friends. A British-born poet, writer, and visual artist, David explores themes of care, community, and spiritual resilience. Today, he joins Jen and Amy to talk about his latest work, A Rebellion of Care—a powerful blend of essays and poetry rooted in tenderness, authenticity, and resistance. From writing to flour milling and homesteading, David’s life is a living practice of nurturing both self and community with intention.
Key highlights from this conversation include:
- How radical tenderness can be an act of resistance
- Why are many people living radicalized lives without realizing it, and often for things they don’t truly care about
- How homesteading is a rebellion against modern food practices
- Reimagining masculinity and what it could look like in a better world
- Building community and friendship as a vital source of joy and support in life
- How anger and joy are companion emotions
- The sacredness of everyday practices
Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde is a prominent voice in modern faith leadership. As the first woman elected to serve as Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Washington, a role she has held since 2011, she will admit, on most days, “[The job] is not as glamorous or as public as people might imagine…. except for those moments when it is.” And she cultivates those moments very carefully, “because they’re sacred.”
Those moments, she alludes to, perhaps refer to her times in the national spotlight in recent years calling out the Trump administration for actions and policies that have exploited or harmed others. In June 2020, she rebuked President Trump’s photo-op in front of St. John’s Episcopal Church during a time of national protest—an act she condemned as a violation of sacred space. And she captured national attention earlier this year at the inaugural prayer service when she prayed for mercy and justice for the LGBTQ+ community—with President Trump and Vice President Vance seated in the front row. She has been one of the clearest, calmest, and most courageous voices in public faith leadership in recent years.
Today, Jen and Bishop Budde talk about her journey from a small urban congregation in Minnesota to the public stage and Bishop Budde talks about where she draws her courage from to speak truth to power and to advocate for the excluded and marginalized, even when facing potential backlash herself.
Today, we’re taking a look back to a conversation that wildly changed the trajectory of Jen’s life and her career as an author. In 2016, which you might remember was already such a fun time, Jen gave an interview to Jonathan Merritt, then of Religion New Service, anticipating the same pro forma questions about her upcoming speaking tour but quickly found herself answering questions concerning her personal politics, her stance on abortion and feelings on LGBTQ+ issues. All of this was work that Jen had been doing internally for more than a year. So, while she was resolved in the answers she would give, what she was not prepared for was the backlash that would follow.
In this encore episode, we hear from Jonathan Merritt, award-winning journalist and writer, about what it was like on his side of that probing discussion with his personal friend. He and Jen also discuss Jonathan’s own parallel journey, growing up in the family of an evangelical mega-church pastor where he was taught that in regards to gay people, Christians were called to “love the sinner, but hate the sin,” an attitude which kept him from being open to who he himself might be—a gay man. Ultimately, it took an event that shattered Jonathan’s life into pieces and caused his private process to become very public, and to send him down the road of pursuing his identity, his faith, and his purpose.
Today, Jen and Amy sit down with a treasured friend of the show, Franciscan priest and truth-teller, Father Richard Rohr. Father Rohr has been a genuine hero of the faith who has guided us through much uncertainty over the years. Sometimes, we turn to him for mystic insights into lighter things like our Enneagram types and relationships. But today, we turned to him for help processing the anger, grief, and dismay we feel living in America right now. And he met the moment, as he always does.
With gentle grace, Father Rohr guides us through our toughest questions, like:
- How do we live compassionately in a time of violence and despair? And what can we do with our private disappointments and the anger we feel in such an unjust world?
- What can we do? Non-violent resistance is our chief responsibility right now. Like John Lewis said, these times call for some “good trouble”. Join the marches, call and write our elected leaders, and mobilize strategically for upcoming elections. We have several democratic tools at our disposal.
- Where can we look for inspiration? Father Rohr talks to us about his latest project, The Tears of Things, which recounts the timeless wisdom of the Hebrew prophets and notes “If we can understand the prophets so poorly, if at all, no wonder we have not understood Jesus.”
- What’s one thing we can do to live prophetically in these chaotic times?
- And Father Rohr tells us what is giving him hope today. You’ll find it contagious.
Jeff Chu, an award-winning journalist, author, and “sort-of-kind-of farmer,” joins Jen on the For the Love podcast to discuss his book, Good Soil: The Education of an Accidental Farmhand. In the book, Jeff shares stories from his time at “The Farminary”, a twenty-one-acre working farm at Princeton’s Theological Seminary, where students explore life’s biggest questions while cultivating the earth.
Jeff reflects on his own struggles with faith, identity, and the expectations placed upon him as a gay man raised in a conservative Christian environment. His journey reveals the challenges of cultivating, not just plants, but also a spiritual life that is authentic, evolving, and inclusive?.
In this conversation, Jeff, Jen and Amy discuss:
- What Jeff learned at the “Farminary” about creating “good soil,” drawing lessons from the rhythms of growth, decay, and regeneration that define life on the land
- Finding moments of grace and healing, showing that even what seems barren can become fertile with care and time
- Challenging traditional interpretations of the biblical Parable of the Sower, shifting the focus from categorizing people as “good” or “bad” soil to understanding how soil and the human soul are shaped by external forces and capable of transformation and growth
- Exploring faith, not as something static, but as something that evolves – much like soil that is constantly changing and being enriched.
In this second installment of our special Midlife Renaissance series, the delightful Erin Hicks Moon joins Jen and Amy for a super resonant conversation to discuss what it looks like when the faith that you grew up with bears no resemblance to your current values and what matters to you today. But Erin reassures us that if our faith looked like it did 10, 15, even 20 years ago, we would not be evolving.
Erin is the host and resident bible scholar of the Faith Adjacent podcast and author of I’ve Got Questions: The Spiritual Practice of Having It Out with God. She’s a thoughtful guide for processing our questions, curiosity, and doubt.
Women naturally come into midlife with a posture of comfort in things they are sure of and curiosity to explore the things that they aren’t. There are many people searching for answers in the wilderness of faith but, as Erin reminds us, our questions can lead to a more vibrant and joyful faith.
In this second installment of our special Midlife Renaissance series, the delightful Erin Hicks Moon joins Jen and Amy for a super resonant conversation to discuss what it looks like when the faith that you grew up with bears no resemblance to your current values and what matters to you today. But Erin reassures us that if our faith looked like it did 10, 15, even 20 years ago, we would not be evolving.
Erin is the host and resident bible scholar of the Faith Adjacent podcast and author of I’ve Got Questions: The Spiritual Practice of Having It Out with God. She’s a thoughtful guide for processing our questions, curiosity, and doubt.
Women naturally come into midlife with a posture of comfort in things they are sure of and curiosity to explore the things that they aren’t. There are many people searching for answers in the wilderness of faith but, as Erin reminds us, our questions can lead to a more vibrant and joyful faith.
