In this heartfelt episode, Jen and Amy welcome friends, Justin McRoberts and Scott Erickson, to delve into the tender complexities of depression, creativity, and faith. Together, Scott and Justin have built a body of work around the intersection of art, prayer, and healing, including their newest project: In the Low: A Prayerbook for the Seasons of Depression. Today they share personal stories and insights on how art and spirituality can serve as companions through life’s most isolating lows.
This episode offers a compassionate perspective on navigating mental health challenges and finding hope in unexpected places. If you’ve ever found yourself in a season that was super dark or unbearably heavy, this conversation will bring you comfort.
The number of people who have said, ‘Jen, you and John Fugelsang should have a conversation’ is approximately one thousand. So naturally, we thought, let’s have that conversation where a million listeners can tune in and enjoy it too.
Strap yourself in for a wild ride as Jen Hatmaker chats with the ever-entertaining comedian, actor and broadcaster, John Fugelsang, host of the Tell Me Everything series on SiriusXM Progress and The John Fugelsang Podcast. In this episode, they tackle the delightful chaos of breezy topics like Christian nationalism, the real teachings of Jesus (spoiler: it’s not about power), and why love trumps all—literally. With his signature blend of humor and razor-sharp insight, John dishes on his book, “Separation of Church and Hate,” and why it’s time to take back the Bible from the fundamentalist fun police. Get ready for a conversation that’s as enlightening as a Sunday sermon, but way more fun.
Whether you consider yourself religious, spiritual, atheistic, or just allergic to hypocrisy, THIS is the episode for you. Tune in, laugh, and maybe learn a thing or two!
For a special treat this week, we’re bringing you some highlights straight from Jen’s recent Awake book tour in a limited series we’ve dubbed “Road Trippin’ with Jen”. Every tour stop, audience, and special guest brought its own kind of magic, so we’re excited to share some of the best moments with you here on the podcast.
On this Road Trippin’ stop, Jen shares the stage with two powerhouses. In Houston, board-certified OBGYN and best-selling author, Dr. Mary Claire Haver, shares her journey and insights into women’s health, particularly around menopause and midlife. She unpacks our burning questions—why brain fog shows up before periods change, why sleep matters, and how a “menopause toolkit” can set us up for strength, longevity, and joy. This conversation delves into the complexities of menopause, the importance of nutrition, sleep, and movement, and the power of community and connection. Together we learn how to thrive in mind, body, and spirit during this transformative phase of life.
Then we head to the Music City of Nashville, where comedian and truth-teller Heather Land talks about using humor to survive whatever garbage life throws at us, pivoting careers in midlife, and choosing honesty as a way to create belonging. Heather reminds us that laughter can be holy too, and when every other thing fails, humor has a way of breaking us open just enough to let the light in. Tune in for an evening that was equal parts comedy set, revival, and group therapy.
In this special encore episode, we revisit a doozy of a conversation between Jen and Elise Loehnen, author of On Our Best Behavior: The Seven Deadly Sins and the Price Women Pay to Be Good. In this episode, Elise discusses how deeply ingrained patriarchal narratives create a policing effect on women’s behavior, historically using concepts like the seven deadly sins to restrict women and enforce an idealized “goodness.” She unpacks the insidious ways women are conditioned from a young age to suppress normal human drives like anger, ambition, and sexuality.
This conversation, which absolutely blew our minds, explores how patriarchy not only shapes our systems but also gets inside us, training women for “goodness” while men are trained for power. We talk about everything from motherhood to anger to unlearning patterns that have kept us small, and imagining a freer, truer way of being for ourselves and future generations.
Whether you caught it the first time or you’re hearing it fresh, this is one of the most insightful and hopeful conversations we’ve had on the show.
What happens when the faith you were raised with no longer fits? Join us as we dive deep into the journey of faith deconstruction, exploring the possibilities of holding onto core beliefs while letting go of harmful narratives.
Our guest, Mary Katherine Backstrom, built a life inside evangelical certainty, but one day it all began to unravel—in her marriage, in her career, and in her faith. Left to process a myriad of feelings no one is prepared for in a moment such at that—a misalignment of her heart and mind in respect to her faith, processing the trauma that purity culture effected on her relationships, the grief and resentment she felt over being robbed of so much joy in her early life, the mounting questions of doubt and feelings of uncertainty, not to mention the cataclysmic rupture happening within her community and the response she was getting from people bearing witness to the changes she was making.
As MK shared, “I feel like I dropped the bomb”, but the encouraging takeaway from her message today and what she talks about in her painfully honest, laugh-out-loud memoir, Not That Wheel Jesus, is, “I walked through the rubble, I danced in the fire pits with my friends, and I’ve emerged into this quiet post-apocalyptic space where I can hear my own voice. I really have no idea what comes next, but at least I have me. There’s some goodness in the quiet.”
Whether you’re in the midst of your own faith evolution or simply curious about the topic, you’ll want to listen to this episode. It’s going to resonate with so many listeners. Don’t forget to leave us a voicemail with your thoughts over at jenhatmaker.com/podcast!
Jen has been a quiet superfan of David Gate ever since discovering one of his poems on Instagram and instantly texting it to six friends. A British-born poet, writer, and visual artist, David explores themes of care, community, and spiritual resilience. Today, he joins Jen and Amy to talk about his latest work, A Rebellion of Care—a powerful blend of essays and poetry rooted in tenderness, authenticity, and resistance. From writing to flour milling and homesteading, David’s life is a living practice of nurturing both self and community with intention.
Key highlights from this conversation include:
- How radical tenderness can be an act of resistance
- Why are many people living radicalized lives without realizing it, and often for things they don’t truly care about
- How homesteading is a rebellion against modern food practices
- Reimagining masculinity and what it could look like in a better world
- Building community and friendship as a vital source of joy and support in life
- How anger and joy are companion emotions
- The sacredness of everyday practices
Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde is a prominent voice in modern faith leadership. As the first woman elected to serve as Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Washington, a role she has held since 2011, she will admit, on most days, “[The job] is not as glamorous or as public as people might imagine…. except for those moments when it is.” And she cultivates those moments very carefully, “because they’re sacred.”
Those moments, she alludes to, perhaps refer to her times in the national spotlight in recent years calling out the Trump administration for actions and policies that have exploited or harmed others. In June 2020, she rebuked President Trump’s photo-op in front of St. John’s Episcopal Church during a time of national protest—an act she condemned as a violation of sacred space. And she captured national attention earlier this year at the inaugural prayer service when she prayed for mercy and justice for the LGBTQ+ community—with President Trump and Vice President Vance seated in the front row. She has been one of the clearest, calmest, and most courageous voices in public faith leadership in recent years.
Today, Jen and Bishop Budde talk about her journey from a small urban congregation in Minnesota to the public stage and Bishop Budde talks about where she draws her courage from to speak truth to power and to advocate for the excluded and marginalized, even when facing potential backlash herself.
