Podcast Category: Wellness

[ENCORE] The Sacred Yes to Rest: Katherine May on Retreat, Beauty, and the Healing We Can’t Rush

Three years ago, Katherine May gave us a language for something many of us experience but rarely know how to name: wintering.

Those seasons of life when everything slows down. When grief arrives. When burnout catches up with us. When illness, loss, caregiving, parenting challenges, or unexpected change force us to stop and reconsider how we’re living.

As part of our Sacred Yes: Reclaiming Joy in Midlife series, we’re revisiting this unforgettable conversation because Katherine’s wisdom feels even more relevant today than it did when it first aired.

Together, Jen and Katherine explore what it means to stop treating ourselves like machines and start honoring our humanity. They discuss the value of retreat, the necessity of rest, and why healing cannot be rushed. Katherine challenges the cultural pressure to push through difficult seasons and instead invites us to trust that growth is still happening beneath the surface—even when life appears dormant.

Nestled in this conversation is a gentle reminder that joy isn’t always found by adding more. Sometimes it emerges when we create space. Space for solitude. Space for beauty. Space to notice what’s growing quietly within us.

If you’ve been feeling weary, stretched thin, or ready to step off the hamster wheel for a moment, this episode offers a different path forward—one marked by grace, patience, and the courage to rest before collapse forces it upon us.

In this very gentle and generous conversation, you’ll hear:

  • Why every life includes seasons of “wintering”
  • The difference between retreat and isolation
  • How beauty sustains us during difficult seasons
  • Why sadness isn’t something to fix
  • Practical ways to create restorative space in everyday life
  • What it means to trust the season you’re in

Sometimes the most sacred yes isn’t a leap forward. It’s permission to pause.

Sacred Yes: Reclaiming Joy in Midlife Starts Here

Welcome to the first episode in our summer series, Sacred Yes: Reclaiming Joy in Midlife.

After years spent saying yes to obligations, expectations, responsibilities, and everyone else’s needs, what happens when we finally learn to say yes to ourselves?

In this deeply personal solo episode, Jen takes us to the place where this journey began: Me Camp. What started as a spontaneous trip to coastal Maine during one of the hardest seasons of her life became an annual practice of restoration, adventure, healing, and joy. Six summers later, as she arrives in a tiny lakeside town in Ontario for another month of Me Camp, she’s reflecting on the small word that changed everything: yes.

But not every yes is created equal.

Jen explores the difference between the “obligated yes” that leaves us depleted and resentful and the “sacred yes” that reconnects us to ourselves. Along the way, she shares hard-won wisdom about boundaries, people-pleasing, midlife exhaustion, and why so many women find themselves carrying responsibilities that were never meant to belong to them alone.

Most importantly, she makes a compelling case for something many of us have forgotten how to practice: unproductive joy. The kind of joy that doesn’t earn a paycheck, check off a to-do list, or justify itself with results. The kind that nourishes our spirits simply because it delights us.

Whether your version of Me Camp is a month by the water, a Friday afternoon reserved for lunch with friends, a stack of library books, or an hour spent doing something that makes you feel alive, this conversation is your invitation to begin.

This month, we’ll be exploring what it means to reclaim joy, embrace rest, honor our desires, and create lives that are not just productive—but deeply satisfying.

It’s time to discover your own Sacred Yes.

He Built the Machine, Then He Survived It: Tim Schraeder Rodriguez on 15 Years Behind the Scenes of Evangelical Christianity

For 15 years, Tim Schraeder Rodriguez quietly shaped the digital face of some of the biggest names in evangelical Christianity — Willow Creek, Hillsong, Elevation — helping mega-churches reach millions with a message of radical welcome. The painful irony? He was living proof of their unspoken rules. Useful in the shadows. Unacceptable in the light.

In this conversation, Tim joins Jen and Amy to talk about his new memoir, Conversion Therapy Dropout, and the full arc of his story: growing up adopted with a sense of “anxious apartness,” signing the purity pledge as a kid who already knew he was gay, eight years in the loosely-held and deeply damaging world of conversion therapy, and eventually a breaking point that brought him to his knees — and then, slowly, to himself.

Today, the conversation swirls around what conversion therapy actually looks like from the inside (football coaches, Mary Kay consultants, and all), the complicated grief of leaving a community that was also your career and your family, how the Pulse Orlando shooting became Tim’s personal line in the sand, and what it took to find his way back to faith — this time, in church basements with other sober queer people finding a God of their own understanding.

They also get into the current state of conversion therapy in America, why it’s more active and accessible than most people realize, and what the rest of us — regular people who just live on their street and go to their jobs — can actually do about it.

This one is hard and beautiful and hopeful. Don’t miss it.

Testify to Love at 30: Avalon’s Untold Story

If you grew up on Christian music in the ’90s, there’s a good chance Testify to Love wasn’t just a hit song—it was the soundtrack to a season of your life.

Three decades after Avalon first released the iconic anthem, Jen sits down with original Avalon member Michael Passons, longtime Avalon vocalist Melissa Greene, and country music star Ty Herndon to talk about the remarkable re-release of a song that has found new meaning for a new generation.

But this isn’t simply a conversation about music. It’s the untold story behind one of CCM’s most beloved songs.

Michael shares the painful reality of losing his place in Avalon after coming out as gay. Melissa reflects on the faith journey that transformed her understanding of inclusion and belonging. Ty opens up about his own path through addiction, recovery, faith, and finally living fully and truthfully as himself. Together, they revisit the song that connected millions of listeners and explore why its message of love, acceptance, and human dignity feels more relevant now than ever.

Filled with laughter, tears, hard-earned wisdom, and more than a few moments that will leave you reaching for the tissues, this conversation is a beautiful testament to friendship, healing, and the courage it takes to live loud.

Whether Testify to Love has been on your playlist for thirty years or you’re hearing its story for the first time, this episode is a powerful reminder that love’s truest testimony is not who it excludes—but who it embraces.

Big Baby and New Beginnings: Kevin James Thornton on Sin Clowns, Standups, and Second Acts

He’s back — and this time he brought a memoir. Comedian Kevin James Thornton returns to For the Love, and if you thought you knew Kevin from his hilarious auto-tuned TikToks and wired-headphone microphone bits, this conversation will lovingly surprise you.

Kevin’s debut memoir, Big Baby: On Endings, Beginnings, and an Interdimensional Cat, traces his journey from performing as a literal sin clown on a youth group mission trip in 1990s New York City, to grinding it out on the stand-up circuit in LA, to touring one-man shows across the US, Canada, and eventually the world — Helsinki, Stockholm, Paris — all the way to present-day Cincinnati, where he’s navigating a major life upheaval with nothing but his 13-pound black cat Comet and an extraordinary amount of hard-won self-awareness.

In this conversation, Kevin opens up about what it actually took to write a book — including the two-week-long Airbnb retreat where he mostly just slept and watched TV because his attention span had been completely obliterated — and what surprised him most about recording the audiobook (hint: he cried, more than once, and they left it in). He talks about the strange, freeing moment he realized he no longer needed to prove himself to anyone, and how that shift was the very thing that made his work finally land. And he reflects on the beautiful, sometimes maddening truth that life doesn’t end so much as it just keeps beginning again.

[ENCORE] The Gift of Being Seen: Tyler Merritt On Why Vulnerability Is Worth The Risk

As we close out our Chosen Family: The Ones Who Stayed series, we wanted to revisit a conversation that beautifully captures something at the heart of every meaningful relationship: the courage to be fully seen.

Recorded live from the Oregon coast during the final day of MeCamp, this special conversation between Jen and her partner, Tyler Merritt, is equal parts hilarious, tender, and deeply human. Through stories of adventure, misadventure, and the kind of laughter that only comes from knowing someone well, they explore what it means to show up honestly—with ourselves and with the people who love us.

Throughout our Chosen Family series, we’ve talked about the relationships that sustain us through life’s joys, losses, and transitions. This conversation feels like a fitting finale because it highlights the vulnerability that allows those connections to flourish. Jen and Tyler reflect on the stories we tell ourselves, the truths we’ve had to confront, and the ways honesty can become a pathway to healing and emotional well-being.

From Tyler’s viral video Before You Call the Cops to Jen’s reflections on her book Awake, they discuss the transformative power of sharing our stories—and the freedom that can come when we stop hiding behind perfection, pride, or performance.

In this episode:

• Tyler shares the most awkward moment he’s ever experienced because he chose vulnerability over self-protection
• Jen and Tyler discuss some of the hardest truths they’ve ever had to face about themselves
• Tyler reaches deep into the archives to reveal one of his most embarrassing moments as a performer

Join us for a conversation that reminds us that the people who stay are often the ones who make space for our whole selves—the polished parts, the messy parts, and everything in between.

Somewhere Between the Mountains and the Spreadsheets — You Are Not As Alone As You Think You Are: A Listener Voicemail Episode

Some episodes we plan. This one you created.

This week, Jen and Amy are stepping back and letting the people they do this whole thing for take center stage. It’s Listener Voicemail Day — and honestly? It might be our favorite kind of episode. Because nothing reminds us why this community exists quite like hearing your actual voices.

So we’re bringing your calls to you — from all kinds of moments and all kinds of women.

Jessica calls in to reflect on our Awake Collective episode and where she is at in her own healing process, and feeling the loneliness that can settle in when you’re deep in the work. Jen and Amy reflect on so much of the wisdom of our incredible Awake Collective panel – Kate Bowler, Nedra Tawwab, Emily Nagoski, and Kobe Cambell, whose words echo here: healing isn’t supposed to feel good — it’s supposed to feel like disruption.

Sara brings it home with a call about raising young girls. Between them, Jen and Amy are parenting nine young adults, so they have thoughts.

Amanda found Awake on vacation and came home having discovered something she didn’t know she was missing — an invisible community of women who just get it.

Deborah calls in from Canada with a story that will stop you in your tracks. A devastating and beautiful parallel between her journey losing her husband to terminal brain cancer and Jen’s own story — and the breathtaking grace of how, by God’s grace, we do recover.

Tania reflects on the Wilderness and Wonder series and a recent trip to the mountains that cracked something open in her — the awe, the connection, the reminder that this podcast is its own kind of sacred space.

And Diavianne closes things out talking budgets and spreadsheets, which sounds ordinary until you realize it’s actually about power — the freedom and confidence that come from truly owning your financial life.

Jen and Amy respond to each one with the honesty and tenderness that only comes from doing this long enough to know: you are never as alone as you think you are.

This is the connective tissue. This is why we show up every week.

Have something you need to say out loud? Head to JenHatmaker.com/Podcast, find the Send Voicemail button, and leave us your story. We’re listening.

Dr. Thema Bryant: How to Find, Keep, and Nurture the People Who Truly See You (By Starting with Yourself)

Some conversations are so good, they deserve a second life.

As we’ve been building out our Chosen Family series — exploring what it actually takes to find, keep, and nurture the people who truly see you — we kept coming back to this tender conversation because it was resonant then but it hits differently now.

Dr. Thema Bryant is a psychologist, author, professor, ordained minister, and former president of the American Psychological Association. Her books Matters of the Heart and Homecoming have resonated deeply with women navigating the beautiful, complicated work of belonging — and her clarity on what it means to truly come home to yourself is exactly the foundation this series needed.

In this conversation, Jen and Amy dig into:

  • Why midlife can feel isolating even when you’re surrounded by people — and what’s really going on beneath that loneliness
  • How to grieve friendships that have run their season while making genuine room for new ones
  • The difference between performing friendship and actually being emotionally available for it
  • Why our wellness matters more than our loyalty — and what it looks like to stop sacrificing yourself in the name of showing up for everyone else
  • Practical tools like writing vows to yourself and how to build community from scratch when one was never ready-made for you

Because here’s what we keep coming back to: you cannot truly choose people if you haven’t first chosen yourself. This conversation is the starting place.

Amy Grant: The Long Road Back to Yourself (The Me That Remains)

There are artists whose music marks a moment—and then there are the ones whose songs stay with us for a lifetime.

This week, Jen sits down with beloved returning guest Amy Grant to talk about her long-awaited new album, a project shaped by time, reflection, and a life that’s been fully lived. After a significant health crisis and a slow, intentional return to music, Amy is creating from a place that feels more open, more grounded, and more honest than ever.

Together, they talk about what it means to come back to yourself after everything changes, how creativity evolves over decades, and why the stories we tell later in life often carry a different kind of weight. Amy shares how her songwriting has shifted, the role of memory and perspective in this new work, and what it looks like to keep making meaningful art in a season that feels both quieter and more expansive.

At the heart of both this album and this conversation is Amy’s quiet but steady intention to be a witness—to tell the truth about a life as it’s being lived, and to honor the people who have shown up along the way. From deeply personal songs shaped by love and loss to collaborations with her husband, Vince Gill, and her daughters, this record reflects not just where Amy is now, but who has helped her get here.

This conversation is thoughtful, unhurried, and full of the kind of wisdom that only comes from living a long time and staying curious along the way.

Jen Hamilton on Birth Vibes: Reclaiming Agency in One of Life’s Most Vulnerable Moments

If you’ve ever felt the quiet fear of placing your body—and your baby—into a healthcare system you don’t fully understand, this conversation is for you.

Today, Jen and Amy sit down with labor and delivery nurse, educator, and internet big sister Jen Hamilton to talk about her brand-new “book baby,” Birth Vibes. With more than a decade at the bedside and millions who trust her honest, compassionate voice, Jen has become a steady guide in one of life’s most vulnerable moments.

In this episode, we pull back the curtain on the delivery room—the expectations, fears, and surprises—and talk about what it actually means to feel prepared. Not in a rigid, checklist kind of way, but in a deeply personal, values-driven way. Because as Jen reminds us, birth isn’t something you control—it’s something you move through.

Today, we talk about:

  • Why “perfect birth plans” often set us up for disappointment—and what to hold onto instead
  • How to discover your own “birth vibes”—that blend of values, intuition, and informed choice that helps you advocate for yourself
  • What it’s like to hold both roles—healthcare provider and influencer—with integrity in today’s world
  • How even when birth doesn’t go as planned, it can still be empowering, informed, and deeply ours

Whether you’re expecting, supporting someone who is, or simply curious about the intersection of care, advocacy, and the body’s wisdom, this conversation will leave you feeling steadier, braver, and less alone.

Because at the end of the day, this isn’t just about birth. It’s about learning to trust yourself in the middle of something you can’t fully control—and finding your voice anyway.