We need art and beauty now more than ever. In this very special episode with acclaimed poet and writer, Maggie Smith, she shares insights with Jen and Amy from her new book ‘Dear Writer: Pep Talks & Practical Advice for the Creative Life‘ and discusses how creativity is a gift that is present in all of us and that every decision we make is a creative act. In fact, Maggie believes that creativity can serve as a form of homecoming, helping individuals to reassemble themselves amidst life’s hardest challenges.
Their conversation also delves into the writing process and reveals the messy and iterative nature of creating art. Maggie talks about the transformative power of writing, the importance of reframing our experiences with new language, and how to maintain a sense of wonder in life, which is essential for personal growth.
Key takeaways include:
- The gift of your attention is a form of love.
- No one else can tell your story; it must be you.
- It’s never too late to start creating. And, the first draft is always a mess; embrace the process.
In the span of a single year, Abby Wambach lost her beloved brother, her wife Glennon Doyle was diagnosed with anorexia, and her sister-in-law Amanda Doyle was diagnosed with breast cancer. For the first time, the trio who host the wildly popular We Can Do Hard Things podcast, all found themselves simultaneously lost, looking for answers. So they turned toward the only thing that’s ever helped them find their way: deep, honest conversations with other brave, kind, wise people. What resulted from those conversations was a myriad of guideposts, words of wisdom from some of the most brilliant wayfinders in the zeitgeist today.
In this episode, Jen and Amy talk with Abby and Amanda about some of the most meaningful bits of guidance that they have received from inspirational voices like Elizabeth Gilbert, Jane Fonda, Michelle Obama, Ocean Vuong, Esther Perel, Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, and others that they have gathered into a new book called, We Can Do Hard Things: Answers to Life’s 20 Questions.
Some of the conversations they delve into include:
- Why are we like this?
- How do we figure out what we really want?
- How do we let go, or forgive, or get unstuck?
- Why do we wake up every day having forgotten everything we know?
- Why self-loyalty is so damn hard for women?
In this special SXSW2025 edition of For the Love, Jen Hatmaker sits down with Dr. Stacey Ludwig Johnson, the Senior VP and Executive Dean at Western Governors University (WGU) School of Education. As a lifelong advocate for educators, Dr. Johnson is at the forefront of reimagining how we train, support, and sustain teachers in today’s challenging educational landscape.
Jen, a former teacher herself, brings her deep passion for education into this conversation, unpacking the real issues educators face today—from teacher shortages to burnout—and discussing how innovative models like WGU’s competency-based education are transforming access to learning.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode
Dr. Johnson’s Path to Leadership: How she transitioned from working in corrections to becoming a pioneer in online education.
Competency-Based Education: What it is, how it differs from traditional models, and why it’s a game-changer for adult learners.
Educator Burnout & Retention: The state of teacher well-being and what’s being done to ensure teachers not only enter the profession but thrive in it.
School & Community Support for Teachers: How schools, administrators, and parents can create environments where teachers feel valued.
Future Trends in Education: How AI, technology, and apprenticeship programs are shaping the next generation of educators.
Lisa Congdon may be an internationally known fine artist, illustrator and writer but she didn’t achieve momentum in her career until she was nearly 40 years old. Prior to that time, she felt that her life hadn’t mattered much, that she didn’t have anything interesting to say. But, a total career pivot in her mid-thirties awakened a passion in her that had been lying dormant for decades and helped her find her powerful, beautiful voice. Despite taking an untraditional path, Lisa has achieved recognition, not just as an artist, but as a leader in the industry for her work in social justice, mentoring and teaching. Lisa says making art is what changed her relationship to her story.
Today, Jen and Amy talk to Lisa Congdon about:
- What it looks and feels like to awaken to new possibilities in life
- The power of finding and harnessing your voice, something Lisa covers more in her book, Find Your Artistic Voice: The Essential Guide to Working Your Creative Magic
- How two really big things (joy and activism) can coexist in artistic expression
- Lisa’s game-changing practice of “loud quitting” the things that no longer bring joy or something positive into her life
Buckle up, listeners. It was only a matter of time before our paths crossed with Mel Robbins, one of the most respected experts on change and motivation in the zeitgeist, and today is that day. Known for being the host of the #1 ranking education podcast in the world, bringing deeply relatable topics, tactical advice, tools, and compelling conversations to her audiences, Jen and Amy spend today’s hour diving into Mel’s “Let Them” theory, which is taking the world by storm, already delivering instant peace and freedom in the lives and relationships of people putting it into practice.
Together, they discuss:
- The difference between “Let Them” and “Let Me”
- Learning to release the white-knuckle grip we hold over other people’s behavior (and other things beyond our control)
- Reframing disappointment to view it as a gift (yes, it’s possible!)
- Repositioning self-worth inward, rather than leaving it dependent on others’ opinions.
This week Jen introduces Amy and the For the Love audience to her long-time friend, comedian Heather Land, who gained fame as a social media sensation through her viral I Ain’t Doin’ It videos. They discuss Heather’s journey from an early career in ministry to one in comedy, and now to her newest passion project, life coaching. Heather talks to Jen and Amy about the impact of burnout and the challenges of reinventing oneself, especially at different life stages and finding joy in her new creative project, the Dear Heathers podcast (that she co-hosts with best-friend Heather Lenard) encouraging other women to embrace their journeys and feel empowered.
In this episode:
- Jen and Amy share their mixed feelings on receiving unsolicited advice.
- Inspired by the Dear Heathers podcast, Amy and Jen reminisce about what it was like using landline phones when they were teens. Shocker: Jen even remembers her old phone number!
- The group talks about the importance of recognizing signs of burnout and how reinventing oneself is a vital part of personal growth
- Heather shares how support from friends can play a crucial role in our journey, like when her friend advised her to ‘do it [comedy] afraid’.
- Jen, Amy, and Heather talk about women looking to others with relatable stories when they go through difficult experiences and how community can be our greatest lifeline.
Are you smack dab in the middle of the Sandwich Years? That precarious time where you’re squeezed between the demands of caring for aging parents and still supporting children? We’re here for you, and we’ve got a friend to the show who is living it out in real time, sharing how she’s getting through it all. Jenny Hutt was the host of the Just Jenny Show on Sirius XM and is now hosting her own daily podcast–all while dealing with the long-term care of her father (and his recent death) and the launching of her adult children out into the world. Jenny and Jen discuss unique issues relevant to the Sandwich Generation:
- Learning to re-calibrate your role as a parent in the lives of your newly “launched into the world” kids
- Dealing with unresolved parent/child issues that sometimes arise with the death of a parent
- Recognizing generational anxiety and equipping ourselves and our children with the tools to handle it
- The importance of relying on a strong network of family and friends to draw from during this time (not being afraid to ask for help).
- Having the hard conversations with your parents about being prepared for their passing (and also making sure you’re taking care of that for your children too)
So whether you’re managing being part of the sandwich generation right now, or you’re mentally preparing yourself for it, or you know someone who is facing it head on, there’s something for all of us to take away from this candid and vulnerable convo with Jen and Jenny.
In this episode of our For the Love of the Middle series, renowned clinical psychologist Dr. Shefali returns to the show to discuss her concept of conscious parenting. Those of us in the middle of life who may still be parenting kids at home, or adjusting to parenting adult children who have just launched out into the world–or in any season of the parenting journey, really–will find much to learn as we look back (and forward) at our parenting patterns. Dr. Shefali provides a step-by-step roadmap to help free parents and their children from toxic patterns and expectations, while building a lasting meaningful bond with them. Using her book as a guide, she will introduce us to the five patterns of ego, show us some varying parenting styles (including helping Jen unpack her own parenting style), develop a mindful focus on self-control, and tips on how we can encourage our adult children to parent themselves. Jen and the good doctor will hit some big topics that will inform not only parents, but those of us who wish to discover how we were parented, and how it impacts us now; including:
- Walking through the definition of conscious parenting and the three stages of the parenting map
- Debunking the notion that as parents we are supposed to create happy, perfect superhumans by following traditional parenting rules
- Dismissing the notion that there are good kids and bad kids—and how to avoid using these labels
- Revealing the five ego patterns parents that parents might not even realize inform their quest to raise amazing children
- The three reasons why children act out or misbehave and how you can learn not to shame them for it
- The results of over-parenting and how it shows up in your adult children
It’s never too late to become a mindful parent and set an intention to allow your children to become centerstage in their own lives.
Continuing in our For the Love of the Middle series, we’re having a conversation about something that may impact us as we hit those middle years (or sooner)–caring for our aging parents. With us to be our guide through this sometimes difficult journey is Michelle Boyaner, the director of the documentary film “It’s Not a Burden: The Humor and Heartache of Raising Elderly Parents.” As a storyteller, Michelle felt compelled to talk about this particular stage of life, and decided to film her own journey through it with her mother to help others embrace this unique time in a family’s evolution. Jen and Michelle explore the highs and the lows of caregiving for aging parents and how to stay sane and open hearted during the process.
Michelle Boyaner is an award-winning filmmaker, writer, and educator who founded production company Greenie Films with her wife, Barbara Greene. Together they have written, directed and produced a variety of short and feature films that tell stories of caring for aging parents, living with HIV and the challenges of mental illness–all told with their signature humor and deep capacity for compassion.
Join Jen and Michelle as they discuss:
- How to know when it’s time to step in with your aging parents
- Honoring and managing your parents feelings of not wanting to be a burden
- Finding humor in the challenging moments
- Why caregivers feel so lonely, even when there are so many in the U.S.
- Moving from anger and frustration with difficult parental relationships to forgiveness
We hope you’ll feel less alone on your caregiving journey as Michelle provides practical advice and encouragement as well as some tough love for those in the middle of this common but not often discussed major life experience.
