We need art and beauty now more than ever. In this very special episode with acclaimed poet and writer, Maggie Smith, she shares insights with Jen and Amy from her new book ‘Dear Writer: Pep Talks & Practical Advice for the Creative Life‘ and discusses how creativity is a gift that is present in all of us and that every decision we make is a creative act. In fact, Maggie believes that creativity can serve as a form of homecoming, helping individuals to reassemble themselves amidst life’s hardest challenges.
Their conversation also delves into the writing process and reveals the messy and iterative nature of creating art. Maggie talks about the transformative power of writing, the importance of reframing our experiences with new language, and how to maintain a sense of wonder in life, which is essential for personal growth.
Key takeaways include:
- The gift of your attention is a form of love.
- No one else can tell your story; it must be you.
- It’s never too late to start creating. And, the first draft is always a mess; embrace the process.
Today we’re revisiting the profound biological, psychological and social shifts experienced when becoming a mother – a process known as “matrescence.” Jen sits down with science journalist Lucy Jones, who experienced a seismic identity shift that arose after the birth of her first child.
Lucy and Jen unpack groundbreaking neuroscience research and they expose the deep-rooted myths and unrealistic expectations surrounding modern motherhood. From the minimizing of postpartum struggles to the pressure of “natural birthing” ideals, Lucy reveals how these systemic fictions can breed shame, isolation and maternal mental health crises.
Jen and Lucy discuss:
- The concept of “matrescence” – the biological, psychological and social transition to becoming a mother that renders profound identity changes
- How modern cultural myths and idealized notions of motherhood as blissful and “natural” can be deeply alienating and contribute to maternal mental health issues
- The systemic lack of scientific research and societal rituals to prepare and support women through the seismic transformation of matrescence
- The need to construct new narratives, share vulnerable experiences, and build community care around the modern realities of the matrescence
In the span of a single year, Abby Wambach lost her beloved brother, her wife Glennon Doyle was diagnosed with anorexia, and her sister-in-law Amanda Doyle was diagnosed with breast cancer. For the first time, the trio who host the wildly popular We Can Do Hard Things podcast, all found themselves simultaneously lost, looking for answers. So they turned toward the only thing that’s ever helped them find their way: deep, honest conversations with other brave, kind, wise people. What resulted from those conversations was a myriad of guideposts, words of wisdom from some of the most brilliant wayfinders in the zeitgeist today.
In this episode, Jen and Amy talk with Abby and Amanda about some of the most meaningful bits of guidance that they have received from inspirational voices like Elizabeth Gilbert, Jane Fonda, Michelle Obama, Ocean Vuong, Esther Perel, Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, and others that they have gathered into a new book called, We Can Do Hard Things: Answers to Life’s 20 Questions.
Some of the conversations they delve into include:
- Why are we like this?
- How do we figure out what we really want?
- How do we let go, or forgive, or get unstuck?
- Why do we wake up every day having forgotten everything we know?
- Why self-loyalty is so damn hard for women?
In the summer of 2020, as Jen was beginning to process the loss of her 26-year marriage, there was one person walking her own similar but different journey, and understood many of the feelings of anger, grief, shame, and loss that Jen was just beginning to feel. Someone who knew how that disappointment felt.
Jessica N. Tuner, founder of the popular lifestyle blog The Mom Creative, was a few months ahead of Jen in processing the loss of her 16-year marriage to her husband and father of her three children. Today, Jessica shared with Jen and Amy what the road to recovery has looked like for her, including grieving the end of the life she thought she would have forever, the change of her identity, navigating the messy false-starts, and clawing her way back from what felt like “the floor of hell”. Jessica compiled those hard-fought lessons into a book she’s hoping will be a manifesto of hope to others, called I Thought It Would Be Better Than This: Rise From Disappointment, Regain Control, and Rebuild a Life You Love.
Maddie Corman is a seasoned American actress and playwright that you’ve seen in classic films including Some Kind of Wonderful, Maid in Manhattan, A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood, and our favorite television shows like Law and Order, Curb Your Enthusiasm, and The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel.
Most recently, she has put her creative hand to writing and performing in a very raw and vulnerable autobiographical one-woman play called Accidentally Brave, that delves into Maddie’s personal journey following the arrest of her husband on child pornography charges in 2015. Today, Maddie shares her story of navigating the aftermath, focusing on themes of resilience, healing, and redefining normalcy when life takes an unforeseen turn.
In this tender and transparent conversation, we discuss:
- How Maddie’s life turned upside down after a public personal crisis—and how she found her way back
- What led to her decision to write a raw, hilarious, deeply moving one-woman show called Accidentally Brave (now a movie on MAX!)
- What she imagined midlife would look like when she was younger versus what it looks like from where she sits today
- What it’s like to walk (or sometimes crawl) through shame and loss—and come out with more freedom, more truth, more YOU
- Also, how motherhood shifts our perspective in crisis
- What practices or people help us stay grounded in the hard moments – Maddie shares some really great resources!
- Why midlife is actually the best time to tell your story and start again
Today, Jen and Amy have an intimate conversation with preeminent perimenopausal and menopausal specialist and women’s health advocate, Dr. Louise Newson, who has been described as the “medic who kickstarted the menopause revolution” for her commitment to increasing awareness and knowledge about hormones, perimenopause and menopause through her books, podcast, and educational videos on social media.
In this candid and enlightening conversation, we discuss:
- The biggest misconceptions women have about menopause including understanding the array of symptoms that can be attributed to it
- How the conversations our mothers and grandmothers had (or didn’t have) about menopause are evolving
- The discussions we should be having with our doctors about our health and symptoms but aren’t, either due to shame or lack of information
- Important steps we can take now to minimize our menopausal symptoms later
- Treatment options to alleviate our perimenopause/menopause symptoms once they begin, including hormone replacement therapy
- And, why it’s imperative for policymakers, insurers, employers, and doctors of all specialties to be part this conversation
In this special SXSW2025 edition of For the Love, Jen Hatmaker sits down with Dr. Stacey Ludwig Johnson, the Senior VP and Executive Dean at Western Governors University (WGU) School of Education. As a lifelong advocate for educators, Dr. Johnson is at the forefront of reimagining how we train, support, and sustain teachers in today’s challenging educational landscape.
Jen, a former teacher herself, brings her deep passion for education into this conversation, unpacking the real issues educators face today—from teacher shortages to burnout—and discussing how innovative models like WGU’s competency-based education are transforming access to learning.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode
Dr. Johnson’s Path to Leadership: How she transitioned from working in corrections to becoming a pioneer in online education.
Competency-Based Education: What it is, how it differs from traditional models, and why it’s a game-changer for adult learners.
Educator Burnout & Retention: The state of teacher well-being and what’s being done to ensure teachers not only enter the profession but thrive in it.
School & Community Support for Teachers: How schools, administrators, and parents can create environments where teachers feel valued.
Future Trends in Education: How AI, technology, and apprenticeship programs are shaping the next generation of educators.
Everyone is an addict. Mr. Rogers…The Dali Lama… Michelle Obama! Mull that idea over for a minute and when you’re done being outraged like we were, join us for this enthralling conversation with one of our favorite repeat guests on For the Love – author, psychotherapist, and Episcopal priest, Ian Morgan Cron. Today, we’re talking to him about his new book, The Fix: How the Twelve Steps Offer a Surprising Path of Transformation for the Well-Adjusted, the Down-and-Out, and Everyone In Between.
People pleasing, the need to be right, being a compulsive helper, workaholism, being a knowledge junkie, perfectionism, holding on to our past suffering – these are all forms of addiction. The simple truth is, we each resort to our own methods of dealing with the harder aspects of life. For some, that solution means turning to a substance to numb our pain, which is how we traditionally think of addiction. For others, there are behaviors we employ to manipulate what we are feeling. And that’s where the rest of us fall into the sticky trap.
Ian, who also hosts the wildly popular Typology podcast exploring the mystery of the human personality, teaches us how the Twelve Steps are a trusted tool for anyone seeking to move beyond self-help to a more profound sense of awakening.
And, in a new segment called “To My Younger Self”, Jen and Amy share some deeply personal experiences that, for Amy, helped change her relationships and, for Jen, helped change how she viewed herself.
Lisa Congdon may be an internationally known fine artist, illustrator and writer but she didn’t achieve momentum in her career until she was nearly 40 years old. Prior to that time, she felt that her life hadn’t mattered much, that she didn’t have anything interesting to say. But, a total career pivot in her mid-thirties awakened a passion in her that had been lying dormant for decades and helped her find her powerful, beautiful voice. Despite taking an untraditional path, Lisa has achieved recognition, not just as an artist, but as a leader in the industry for her work in social justice, mentoring and teaching. Lisa says making art is what changed her relationship to her story.
Today, Jen and Amy talk to Lisa Congdon about:
- What it looks and feels like to awaken to new possibilities in life
- The power of finding and harnessing your voice, something Lisa covers more in her book, Find Your Artistic Voice: The Essential Guide to Working Your Creative Magic
- How two really big things (joy and activism) can coexist in artistic expression
- Lisa’s game-changing practice of “loud quitting” the things that no longer bring joy or something positive into her life
