Friendship By the Numbers: Enneagram Expert Ian Cron Weighs In

Jen: Welcome to a bunch of new stuff today. First of all, we are in a whole new studio. Feast your eyes. This has been a deal. This has been a summer project. I love this place. I was just interviewing Hilary McBride, and she popped on the camera. She’s like, “Oh, what am I seeing? It kind of looks like a sexy library or like a speakeasy.” I’m like, “That was my vision board!” So first of all, this is all super cute. Second of all, say hello to my friend Amy Hardin. Hi. 

Amy: Hi. 

Jen: Oh, gosh! Get excited! If you’ve been listening this summer, Amy has been popping in to be my friend on a bunch of episodes, and we have had the greatest time. Welcome to the circus, Amy. 

Amy: Thank you. 

Jen: What are we doing? 

Amy: I don’t know. 

Jen: Yeah. We are new here. You’re going to get to know Amy really well. I’m having to force myself not to onboard every detail about you right this very second. We’ve been friends for somewhere between 15 and 17 years. It depends on which one of us you ask. We are long-time good friends. We have, in a way, grown up together. Hell, we were in our mid-30s when we first met. You had a baby!

Amy: I had a tiny baby, and now he’s 15. 

Jen: That’s right.

Amy: Which is how I can do the math.

Jen: She has four sons. Much more to come on that and we have 1 billion memories together that we’ll drop on you as we go here. I’m so delighted to have you here. I’m so happy that we’re going to do this together. I have told everybody who will listen how excited I am to not only have a partner on the podcast but have it be you. I’m just thrilled about it. 

Amy: I am excited. I’m learning to differentiate excitement from anxiety and I think this is excitement. 

Jen: Was that what it is? Go as deep as you can and see if you can locate it. Wait till you hear this episode, you guys. First of all, we have an incredible guest today, Ian Cron. He’s an Enneagram expert. So for our very first episode, we asked him to come on the show and talk to us. I am a textbook Enneagram three. She is a textbook Enneagram six. We asked Ian to talk to us about why are the way that we are, what is this working dynamic going to look like and how can you advise us to have the most amount of fun here and the least amount of stress. So you’ll get to know both of us more as you hear this entire interview, particularly Amy. I think we’re going to have a good time. 

Amy: I do. 

Jen: I think this is going to feel less stressful to you than it probably feels right now. Not that you’re used to having three cameras in front of you now. 

Amy: I am not and you keep selling it as porch time. 

Jen: You’re right. 

Amy: But in a studio. 

Jen: So again, we’ve been friends forever. So this is what she and I do. We sit on my porch or her couch or wherever we’re at and we just yammer forever about everything. That’s essentially what this job is. You’re qualified.

Amy: That is why I said, yes. 

Jen: That’s right. You’re qualified. We’re going to talk about important things. We’re going to talk about nonsense and that’s our specialty. Truly. 

Amy: I’ve been preparing my whole life for this and I didn’t know it. 

Jen: See, that’s what I’m trying to say. You have credentials. Anyway, I can’t wait for you to hear our conversation with Ian, because it was super helpful but before we get into that, we not only have a new studio and a new partner, we also have a new format. So this show, she’s getting a little facelift and I love it. I love it for her. We are going to be rolling out some new segments that we know you’re going to love, but even if you don’t, we do. So really at the end of the day, that is where it’s at. We’re going to have several new segments, we’re not going to do them all every single episode, but we’re going to do them quite often. So let’s do them. 

Amy: Let’s go.

Jen: Okay. Here is our first segment that wasn’t hard for us to decide on. We’re going to call it Rant or Rave.

Amy: So, our producer’s given us three minutes on the clock. We’re going to try to stick to it. 

Jen: First of all, that’s not our long suit. Brevity. Yikes. 

Amy: Especially if it’s a rant. 

Jen: Oh, God. Well, yeah. 

Amy: But our first topic is kids growing up and leaving home. Is it a rant or a rave? 

Jen: I have a quick question. Can it be both? 

Amy: Yes. 

Jen: Great. 

Amy: We make the rules. 

Jen: Oh yeah! Oh my God! That’s correct!

Amy: Except. We still only have three minutes. 

Jen: Well okay, by the way, my time has not started. That was a clarifying question and that was outside of my time frame. Okay, kids, growing up and leaving home for me is both a rant and rave. So first of all, rave because I am absolutely into it. I am not one of these precious moms who is like, “Don’t leave me. What will my life be?” I’m the opposite of that. I’m Janet King. I’m like my mom, who’s super close to Amy. I’m like, let’s go adults. I say adults very loosely.

Amy: Legal adults. 

Jen: Whatever. I’m like, “Okay, it’s time. It’s time to be out of the home. It’s time to buy your own toothpaste. It’s time to spread your little fledgling wings. I’m all here for you. I love my young adults. I’m enjoying this phase so much and I don’t want them to live here forever. I don’t want roommates. I don’t want them to be my roommates anyway. So big rave to the children launching. I have five kids. Amy has four, of course, we want them to launch. They cannot live with us forever. However, a bit of a rant, which is that those of you with young ones, with littles and you’re like, “No, I’m going to cry.” You’re gonna be fine. Also, don’t worry if you do cry because they’ll come back. They come back. 

Amy: They do. 

Jen: I’ve got one right now, here, that is of launch age and I’m like, “Well, you’re here still and here you are. I didn’t know it was going to be a triage that got longer than a triage. I would like you to add to the rant/rave. 

Amy: I’ve intentionally, not soft-launched, but the distance was intentionally shorter in that we built a tiny house in the backyard. So, my eldest was commuting to school, living in the backyard, using the side gate. So there was no coming back home situation. True to our (enneagram) six and nine natures, we just very carefully put him in the yard and it works out perfectly for everybody. He pops in every day. He hangs out with his brothers but has his own life. So our expectations were perfectly met. 

Jen: I don’t hate that. 

Amy: I mean, it’s your life now except it was unintentional. So, I feel my plan was actually better. 

Jen: Yeah, I do too, to be honest with you. Now, how is that going to help you with the next three? 

Amy: Well, that’s an unknown. I haven’t made a spreadsheet for that yet. 

Jen: That’s right. 

Amy: But I will. 

Jen: That’s right. I mean, you can’t have four tiny homes in your backyard. 

Amy: I actually can. 

Jen: God that’s actually true. You could. It could fit

Amy: I’m on an acre and don’t think I haven’t plotted that out. 

Jen: You got to get rid of them. Some of them have to leave. They can’t all stay. 

Amy: Well, someone will leave eventually but I’m not opposed to four tiny houses because then I can use them for rental income when they do finally leave. 

Jen: I see where your head’s at. You’re thinking like a three. You’re thinking long-term. You’re thinking profitability. You’re saying you’ve got a master plan. I’m rubbing off on you already. I can tell we’ve gone over three minutes so I’m sorry. I actually didn’t agree to the three-minute timeframe so I just want to say that that wasn’t my choice, and I did not cosign on that. Here’s what we’re moving into. We’re going to have a brief segment that we’re affectionately calling Jen Excellence. 

JEN X-CELLENCE 

Jen: We are clearly Gen Xers. I’m 50 and Amy is 53. So we are Gen Xers and there’s no end of nostalgia for us to pull from. I have a question for you; Which store from the ’90s or late ’80s do you wish they would bring back and why? I’m thinking particularly like a mall store. Did you ever work at the mall?

Amy: I didn’t

Jen: You never worked at the mall?

Amy: No. I used it for shopping. 

Jen: I 100% worked at the mall and I don’t know if this will surprise you or not but I worked at The Buckle. 

Amy: I know this, yeah, and it’s spot on. 

Jen: It is, to be honest with you, and even so much that when I first got my job, it was called The Brass Buckle. Do you remember this?

Amy: Yes. 

Jen: Then it rebranded into The Buckle. Anyway, I’m in the weeds. What store? From the olden days do you wish they’d bring back and you could visit it in your glory? 

Amy: It’s not actually a mall store. 

Jen: Oh. 

Amy: Or a clothing store. 

Jen: Oh. 

Amy: It’s a Blockbuster. 

Jen: Oh, that’s a good one. 

Amy: Because, at Blockbuster, I could always feel successful. I felt like I accomplished my goal at the end when I walked out the front door. Not if I was alone. If I was ever alone, I left empty-handed because the pressure was too much. 

Jen: For real? To choose a movie that everybody else would be happy with? I understand that. 

Amy: But if I was with friends or even early marriage with my spouse, then it was perfect. There were time parameters. You can’t just stay there for three hours. 

Jen: I mean, not technically. 

Amy: You could agree on a genre. You could get instant feedback. 

Jen: Oh my god, the genres. The way the store was laid out. 

Amy: Yes like, which aisle do you want to go to? 

Jen: Do you want an adventure or do you want comedy? There’s always that seedy section too. That was like “adult”. 

Amy: Right? 

Jen: I would try to look at that when my mom wasn’t looking. I don’t know what this is over here. I just got lost looking for the Disney section. 

Amy: So it was just a perfect sort of matrix of narrowing down your choices when you decided together. Which aisle? Which superstar? Then you decide. You left the store and then you got to go home and watch a movie. 

Jen: God, I live for Blockbuster. In our family, Fridays were our night. It’s about to be on. Larry, my dad, would make up a huge thing of popcorn, he would put it in a brown paper bag and absolutely irresponsibly pour melted butter that he melted and salt. So much salt. Like high blood pressure amounts of salt and then shake the bag. We’d all have our bowls and we get our pillows. God, I want your answer. I want a Blockbuster again. 

Amy: There’s a documentary about the last blockbuster that stayed open for so much longer than the others, but I haven’t watched it. 

Jen: Our kids don’t even know about this. 

Amy: I think my longing will be too strong to bear if I know that there’s one still open. 

Jen: Because it almost would be worth a pilgrimage. 

Amy: Yes. 

Jen: Our kids don’t even know this. 

Amy: No. 

Jen: The closest thing they have to this is Redbox. Oh wait, am I getting this right? Redbox?

Amy: Outside the pharmacy? 

Jen: Yeah that’s right. Outside of the pharmacy, you’d get it out of the Redbox and then you had to turn it back in.

Amy: That’s correct, but that was not a pleasant experience. A lot of times we would use Redbox on our road trips. So I’d look at the map and see that there’s a Redbox at this McDonald’s three towns up so finish the first movie and we’ll return it at this other one. Then you’ve got three minutes while we’re idling in the parking lot to choose another one. Which was a nightmare. 

Jen: Yeah. You’re like, “I’m going to go in the Walgreens. I’m going to get some ibuprofen because he’s given me a headache and whatever else we need, additional paper towels because you guys are gross in the car. You’ve got five minutes. No, that’s not the same as perusing the aisles of Blockbuster. 

Amy: They will never know the joy and accomplishment. I mean, that’s really why I loved it. I knew I could go, I could get it done, and it would have a good result. That was a very long answer to my favorite store from the ‘90s. 

Jen: The problem is that you just triggered so many thoughts for me. I kind of miss it. That feeling of, we’re about to have a night in. 

 

Amy: Yeah. What was yours? 

 

Jen: I’m not going to tell you. I’m going to say it. I’m going to save it. I actually really look forward to hearing your response to it, because you and I in our high school eras would have had different ideas about some places. So I want to hear what you think about some of my basic Becky-like favorites from back in the old days. We’re going to come back to that next time we do. JenExcellence. 

 

GUEST INTRO:

 

We have an interview. You guys, if you can believe that an interview is about to happen, and as mentioned, it is with the fabulous Ian Morgan Cron. He’s been on the show before. He’s a For the Love fave. He’s brilliant. Let me tell you about him. If you don’t know him already. He is a bestselling author. He is a speaker. He is a psychotherapist. He’s a songwriter. He’s an Episcopal priest. What the heck? He’s like the Swiss army knife of men. 

 

Amy: He is. 

 

Jen: He’s dynamic. He’s amazing. We thought on our first episode out of the gate, let’s bring him in. Let’s have him diagnose us in our Enneagram types, which, as I mentioned earlier, I’m a 3 and she’s a 6. Pretty textbook, both of us. So we’re like, “All right, Ian, talk to us about our issues. What could be some potential pitfalls for a three and a six in a working relationship?” Then we also kick over to him. Okay. Let’s talk about our partners. Amy’s husband Brad is a 9. My partner Tyler is a 7. So what do our relationships look like? Anyway, as always, he is such a fascinating person and I could have listened to him all day. Let me tell you quickly about his projects. You probably know Ian for his huge book, which is called The Road Back to You. I think that was actually my introduction to his work. He also has a podcast which is called Typology, which explores all things Enneagram. It’s just it’s fascinating. I never get tired of a single interview that he does. Finally, he’s got an upcoming book called The Fix. It comes out in January, and it is titled The Fix: How the 12 Steps Offer a Surprising Path of Transformation for the Well-Adjusted, the Down and Out, and Everyone in Between. He uses another very famous, very well-loved tool, the 12 steps that come out of the recovery community. It applies to all of us, so it’s pretty amazing. He’s pretty amazing. I loved this conversation with him and I loved having it with you. By the way, this is going to be a great way for you to get to know a little bit more about Amy because he’s burrowing into what makes you tick. 

 

Amy: Yes. I loved it. 

 

Jen: I did too, and you will too. I am delighted to welcome back to the show the wonderful Ian Morgan Cron.