Laughing Through the Chaos: Finding Joy with Tig Notaro

Jen: Everybody, welcome to the show.

Amy: Welcome. Hello. Hi.

Jen: We’re going to start here. Okay. A million things are competing for my brain. They’re all like, pick me, pick me. If I want to say this first, we have just finished today’s interview and are so thankful we had it today.

Amy: Oh, my gosh, I didn’t, I didn’t know what I needed.

Jen: Oh, gosh. Okay. We mentioned this in this show. But just so you know, for context, this is coming out in a few weeks, but today’s November 6th. So yesterday was the election. And, Amy and I just sort of stumbled into the studio this morning. I don’t even know if we really said a couple full sentences to each other. I was like, how are we going to get through this? And why are we doing an interview this morning?

Amy: And I was so discombobulated. I was an hour early.

Jen: That’s 100% right. She texted me at like 8: 30 or 8, 8:00 and said, I’m on my way. And I called her. I’m like, why? Why are you on your way? We don’t have anything until ten. And she was like, I don’t know. I don’t know what time it is. I guess I will stay here for another hour.

Yeah we came in very disoriented, and all I can just tell you is that I’m glad that you’re here, because that was an hour ago, and we’ve just finished this interview, and we just looked at each other and went, can you believe how much we just left today? I can’t believe it.

Amy: Oh. Me neither.

Jen: I didn’t think I had it in me. I said before we hit record, I don’t have this in me today. She’s a magician. She grabbed us with a rope and like, pulled us up, pulled us out of the muck and mire. Somehow. I don’t know how she did it, but I’m glad you’re here today. Are you feeling just ever so slightly better?

Amy: Yeah. Me too. Yeah. She. Yeah. Pulled me out of the Swamp of Sadness.

Jen: That’s right. I mean, a couple times we threw our heads back in laughter. Like, I would not have believed that possible this morning, but onward. Because I can’t wait for you to hear. She. She told us the funniest stories. I cannot wait for you to hear this episode. But before we get to it, we’re going to do a couple little segments and we’re going to start out with Rant or Rave. 

In homage to Tig Notaro today. Let’s do a little Rant or Rave. I already know how you’re gonna answer this.

Amy: Yeah.

Jen: The whole concept of doing stand up comedy. So stand up comedy and let’s just say not do we like it or not like it? Because of course we like it. Yeah. Would you do it? That’s the Rant or Rave.

Amy: No. No way in hell. Can you imagine?

Jen: Can I imagine you doing stand up? Not in 40 million consecutive years.

Amy: I honestly can’t imagine anyone doing stand up. I mean, I see it happening. I’m so grateful. But how do they do it?

Jen: Yeah, That’s not your zip code.

Amy: Although I love it.

Jen: If you are a person who absolutely understands life events.

Amy: Yes.

Jen: In production and behind the curtain things we know.

Amy: First of all, I could I could never get the mic right. I’m like, oh, I struggle sitting in a chair with a mic stand still talking into the mic. So like moving around holding the mic like all of that. I would be a disaster.

Jen: Like the physical part of stand up comedy is what has got you down here.

Amy: Well that’s number one okay.

Jen: Like what do I do with my body and my hands.

Amy: Yeah. Numbers. Numbers two through 100 is everything else. Sure. Like just being able to memorize a whole hour’s worth of material.

Jen: That I agree with. I’m stunned at their capacity to talk for one hour without notes. I’m stunned.

Amy: I mean, we talk all the time on this show about the importance of being vulnerable and open and, like, seeing the good in every situation. But that is taking it to a different level. Like, there’s always so much darkness and sadness is the undercurrent to really good comedy. And being able to just perform that and make a whole room laugh.

Jen: Here’s where you’re not self-aware. There’s numerous places, but let me just begin with this one. What you are not self-aware about is that, first of all, you’re a source of material, of stand-up comedy. Content is so deep. that well is so deep. There’s no bottom to it. Your actual life and the stories that have come from it are standup material, they’re bits you have. You have built a life of bits. And I am sorry to tell you, one time I got a text from Amy, and I can’t really remember the context. I wrote about this in some book without asking your permission, and I’m sorry about it, kind of, but, the text was like, it’s just kind of a disaster. We’re having a rough day over here. Tiffany, the handlebar riding chicken has died, and I’m just like, I don’t need to know anymore. In that sentence, like, Why is Tiffany riding on a handlebar? Why? Why is her name Tiffany? To be honest, like, why is she just riding around with your boys on their bikes? What happened to her? There were so many questions that I just meant I don’t need any more information. I’m sorry about Tiffany, all right? I mean, that’s one of a billion.

Amy: Y’all have said this so many times. I will never forget that despair I felt, one morning at church, I cried through the whole service. Oh, boy. I was sitting a couple of rows behind your mom, and so afterwards, she was like, what is going on? And I sat down and told her the story. And she laughed so hard she cried more than I had. So sorry. During the whole service.

Jen: We’re not a compassionate people, okay?

Amy: And I kept saying, Janna, this is actually really, really sad. Like we’re devastated. We have so many feelings about this. I need comfort from you. And she was like, I’m so sorry. That’s the funniest shit I’ve ever heard.

Jen: You knew you were barking up the wrong tree. And what was the sadness about this?

Amy: And it was about an animal that died, sorry.

Jen: I knew it was about a dead animal. And that’s a whole segment. We are going to devote some considerable time to one day about your situation with dead animals, wouldn’t you know?

Amy: Okay, we take such good care of our pets. People, listeners.

Jen: Yeah, I know no.

Amy: We’ve lived in the same house like, since Brad was five. Yes.

Jen: Her husband, Brad, grew up in this house and they have now lived in it for all these years.

Amy: So every pet, anyone in our family or the extended family has ever had, like including fish and small rodents, is buried in our yard.

Jen: Every one of them. Could you just put a number on it if you were to take a guess.

Amy: Years ago, ten years ago, you made me count and I made a list on a legal pad. It had to be a legal pad, not a small one. And it was like in the 40s. That’s right.

Jen: That’s right. Amy, what you need to know, listener, is that she lives in a pet cemetery, and that is real. And she has made at least one of my children complicit in the burial grounds. One time Ben Hatmaker was staying at your house. I don’t remember where we were. He stayed with you for, like, 3 or 4 days or something. Am I getting this right? And I don’t. I don’t get an explanation. I just get a text again, a lot of this content just comes via one very weird sentence, and I get a text like things are going fine. Be advised, Ben may be slightly traumatized, buried a dead dog at 10:30 p.m. with headlamps on. He was a part of it, and I’m just like, I don’t know how to process that information. That he was a grave digger for another dead animal in your backyard, digging through hill country rock. You know, it was a lot.

Amy: Well.

Jen: It was just a lot.

Amy: I mean, yes, that’s a very loose description. That’s fine. He accidentally dug up an old cat.

Jen: Oh, shit. I forgot about that. I forgot he dug up the bones. That was the problem. That was a trauma.

Amy: But you know what? He handled it. And then, like, we just had another, like, secondary ceremony.

Jen: Oh, geez.

Amy: Anyway, you have derailed this completely.

Jen: What I’m trying to tell you is that the dead cat bones have a place in a stand up act. It’s just you can’t be the deliverer. Except you can as long as you’re not on a stage. Because you tell us these little stories when we’re together. And then you make my mom cry tears of laughter in the church lobby. And unwittingly.

Amy: But wittingly.

Jen: I’m just saying that you have it in you. It’s just not going to work in this format.

Amy: Well, so my answer is no, no, rant, rant on stand-up. And you?

Jen: I’m I’m I’m I’m, I don’t know, I, I’d like to be somewhere in between them. I am a teeny little bit of rave in that I’m used to sitting on stages. Yeah. So that’s the thing I do that doesn’t feel as paralyzing as it does to you. I’m used to making people laugh, I tell stories, I’m a storyteller. 

So a handful of years ago. Pepper? Pepper is our producer. He’s listening. Let’s see, maybe 2019. I did a summer tour with Heather Land, it was called Hot Summer Nights, But Not That Hot. And it was pure comedy. We weren’t out there to like, help the world become a better place or encourage women in any meaningful way. It was just giggles. We did bits and it was a comedy like night, and it was so much fun. And so having been used to like telling a funny story as an intro, right, or as an example, I’m like, what if I just made the whole thing the stories and it turns out I can? Oh, and that is really fun. It is fun to make people laugh. It is fun to have a story that’s so easy to tell because it’s your story. So I’m not tied to like, my notes that have a lot of meaningful words. It’s just tomfoolery. So anyway, I think I’m right.

Amy: Right. Well, apparently you keep a bunch of my old text so you can just use my material.

Jen: I already had like, I wrote them in books, and then I told you about it, like on the day the book was published. Yeah. And I used your full name, and I’m sorry. Hey, I did ask you. I did send you the writing that I wrote about you in my current. But that comes out next year.

Amy: You did.  I just want to say growth has happened.

Jen: I asked permission, I asked for your veto power. I asked for your editorial.

Amy: Yes.

Jen: But you gave and I took. Yeah. So I just want to say you might have learned how not to alienate everybody who loves me. Okay. One last,oh God. This is such a good one. Let’s do a little culture shock. 

Okay. Our guest, Tig Notaro, has listed her three favorite actors as follows: Annette Bening, John Travolta, and Cher. It’s a mixed bag. Okay. All right, so I want to turn that question to you if you have them. Okay. 

It’s hard to pick three, I get it, but just you have to. Who are your three favorite actors right now?

Amy: It is so hard to pick.

Jen: Okay, I’ll give you that.

Amy: But I chose Olivia Colman.

Jen: Oh I love her. I know I love her. I became her superfan at Broadchurch. That’s what got me for her. And then everything after.

Amy: Oh yeah I love her in everything. The last thing I saw her in was a movie about letters, like Wicked Little Letters. Just brilliant to go on.

Jen: Okay, good. I like this time of year.

Amy: Taika Waititi….

Jen: I knew you were going to say that. Weird guy. Yes. This is not your first time you’ve mentioned him on this show, is all I’m saying. You’ve got a situation here, and.

Amy: I’m not sorry.

Jen: I know you’re not,

Amy: And Ryan Reynolds.

Jen: God.

Amy: But not not for all the obvious reasons, even. I mean, he’s just hilarious. He’s so funny.

Jen: Naturally funny.

Amy: Naturally funny, funny in real life. Does not take himself too seriously, but is also incredibly talented.

Jen: Stone cold fox. We’re not going to act like we are blind. Okay? No, we’re not going to be like that is personality. I mean, yes to that. And also it’s a whole package.

Amy: Yes.

Jen: My sons, I have three of them. They are what the Kinsey scale would suggest. Very straight. And two out of the three of them have said I would, I would sincerely consider being gay for Ryan Reynolds. I’m like, I believe you. I think that you would. And I think that you should not just one, but should. So, oh, I love him. I’m glad I didn’t put him on my list, but I could have because now we would have a shared Venn diagram.

Amy: So who are your three?

Jen: Okay. Number one, Denzel Washington, no notes. I have no notes to give him. No, there’s no downside. Every role, every movie, every show for three decades is a yes. I love him.

Amy: Have you seen his son in the movies?

Jen: Like him and.

Amy: Sounds like him?

Jen: It’s confusing.

Amy: And it is incredible. Also,

Jen: A chip off the block.

Amy: Lucky him man, that family. Oh my god.

Jen: In his marriage, I just. I have all the heart eyes for Denzel. If Tyler is listening to this. He’ll be like, God, I know, I’m just so….

Okay. Second Julia Roberts. Forever forever forever. My girl from Mystic Pizza.

Amy: Yeah.

Jen: All the way to today, I mean it’s just I’m going to locate her in my favorite movie of all time. My number one favorite movie is Notting loving Hill. And I just she can’t miss for me. I really think she can’t miss. Can you think of a movie she was in that you didn’t like?

Amy: Now it’s a solid choice.

Jen: Everything about her, everything about her acting and also her as a person. Finally, this is also no surprise. Jason Bateman. Come on, man, that’s my favorite brand of humor. Very dry, kind of dark. Sort of mean. And self-deprecating. I can never get enough of that.

Amy: And I love him not only as an actor in roles. Yes, but I watched the Smartless Docuseries. Oh my gosh.

Jen: I went and saw it. Smartless Live.

Amy: Now…

Jen: Well, I love him and I love Will Arnett and I love Sean Hayes. So,

Amy: Almost my favorite part was the comments about each episode where everyone’s like, God, he’s so made up.

Amy: But also like, it makes me wonder. Yes. Is that a bit? Did he mean to say that? I think he’s. Why do I think that’s so funny? Yes. I would never say that to someone, but he would. And yet maybe he didn’t mean it, but I think he did. He did. And his friends still love him.

Amy: And his friends laughed.

Jen: And they laugh that I barely missed an episode of Smartless since it came out. I don’t know if I’ve missed five and I am a mega fan of that show, and they’re so mean to each other and it delights me to no end.

Amy: I think it’s more about us than it says about them. Oh, I see what you’re saying. That’s fine.

Jen: Oh my God. Like we’re bad people. We’re not kind of bad people or bad adjacent.

Amy: Listen, we acknowledge the darkness and that it’s sometimes funny.

Jen: I mean, it’s kind of funny, and I don’t wish that wasn’t true. But if I just kind of get, Okay, speaking of funny people, let’s get to it. Let’s get to it. Because, I mean, I guess just lucky us, you know, to be honest with you, just for those of you listening, we’ve had Tig in our show ecosystem for a couple of months, and because she’s filming right now, we had to reschedule this twice. So we had planned on interviewing her last month and it got moved to today. And I am so happy that it did.

Amy: I was so happy for a different reason when it got moved. Because I thought, what a fun morning to be with Tig. And then, and then I didn’t know how I was going to have just, like, a normal conversation with someone when we came in this morning. But, man, we did, we did, we did.

Jen: She has her own brand of magic in the world, and it worked on us. And I appreciate her just being who she is because, I don’t know, we ended it in a very different way than we started it. And you will hear that with your ears when you hear our flatlined voices at the beginning. And now you see whatever this is now.

Jen: Yeah, she’s like, put a little spark in us. But, if you don’t know, Tig Notaro, let me tell you a little bit about her before we bring her in. Born in Mississippi. There’s no other way to say it. She is a comedy powerhouse. She’s got incredibly colorful roots, which we talk about a little bit. She was raised by a creative, very free spirited mother who she mentions at length. I mean, I don’t think she mentioned this, but she’s written about this and talked about how when she was a child, her free spirited mother would put the children in high chairs and feed them all three meals at once, and then just hose them down in the highchair.

And that’s her work that day as a mother was over so she could go to the backyard to paint donkeys on the back of her house. That’s a real story. I did not embellish that even one word. She then went to Texas and swapped out Texas classrooms for a much bigger stage. She made her mark in LA, where she still performs all the time. Starred in One Mississippi, she sold out Carnegie Hall, and her list of accomplishments from that point on are very, very, very long. And we don’t have time. She is a Grammy nominated, Emmy nominated dynamo. I just don’t know anybody exactly like her. Her brand of humor and delivery and just humanity is just Tig.

She’s just the one. She lives on her own little island. And we’re so lucky that she does, when she is not on stage or in front of a camera somewhere, or writing and starring or writing a book. She’s home in LA where she lives. She’s birdwatching with her wife Stephanie, and their twin sons, and of course, their beloved cat, Fluff, who now has some other compatriots in the home as well.

And so we hope you will be just as delighted with this conversation as we were. So we are so glad and grateful, honestly, to welcome to the For the Love podcast, Tig Notaro.

Tig good morning. We are really glad to see you and really glad to meet you. And really thankful that you are here with us this morning.

Tig: I am happy to meet you and happy to be here as well. Nice to connect with somebody on this bizarre morning.

Jen: If we sound weird, if we sound flat, and God forbid, you’re watching us on YouTube, this just… I know this is going to air later, but this morning is November 6th, so this is the morning after the election. And, I don’t even know. Amy, what do we do, what do we even say? I’m not really sure. I don’t I, I haven’t yet figured out even how to manage my own children texting me all morning long, much less, the listening community and.it feels disorienting this morning and disappointing and, a little, you know, everything just disrupted and scary and confusing, and I don’t know. What am I missing?

Amy: I mean, I’ve never had so many texts in the middle of the night. From every time zone, Europe included. I don’t know. What people keep trying to say is, like, we are not alone in our grief and confusion. I don’t know. I think there’s a time and a place to be sad and confused.

Amy: Yeah.

Jen: How’s your house Tig?

Tig: Well, I’m actually in Toronto working, so I’m living in an apartment by myself, and I was, you know, whichever direction the election went, what it feels like, to be away from my life and family. Yeah. Yeah, as confusing as everything is, I think that my brain just went immediately to as much as possible to stay focused on your core beliefs and moving through life in the world with those in the forefront because it’s really the only thing that you always can do is. Yeah, you have to, I mean, obviously there’s always outside factors in the world, but it’s really a reminder to, to let your goodness and and all of that be your focus.

Jen: I agree, I have five kids. They’re all voters. I’ve got 18 to 26. And we’re of course, everyone’s texting this morning. And I told them kind of what you said but shorter. I just said, we love each other and our friends and family. We love our neighbors. Getting to live inside our own integrity matters. And I think that’s what we get to do is just move forward in our own integrity and, and that that’s not nothing. It’s not nothing to be in what feels like to me being on the side of things that I want to be proud of and that I’ll be proud of ten, 20, 30 years from now. Still. So, holding the gentler side, what it means to be an American, I guess, today, and what it means to live in, in community and in a family and is the best we can do.

Tig: Yeah, it’s regardless of who’s in office, it’s how you have to move forward. 

Jen: What other options do we have? Yeah. What other option do we have? And so we still have this opportunity to have little, small daily decisions that we make every day. And what do those look like and what words do we choose? And, those collectively mean something they always have. So, that’s, that’s why that’s what we’re going to do.

Amy: So we’re going to do it. Yeah. We’ll start with you today.

Jen: Start with you. Yeah. And it is great to see you. And you have this history of giving us. Giving us this space to, to pin so much humor but also just lived human experience to your story and the way that you tell it, you’re so gifted. You’re you just have you’re you’re just you. There’s nobody like you. And so millions of us have kind of found our way in your wake through the stories that you tell and being so frankly candid about your life and your childhood and your family and your marriage.

Jen: And I’m grateful for that. Like, thank you for you didn’t have to let all of us into your story at all. You could have picked outside things to write a bit about. But you use your own experience and it is. I don’t know, it’s not just hilarious, it’s connective. And so thanks for making that choice. Did you ever think, you know what? I’ve got a little bit too much shit that I don’t want to necessarily lay out on display for everyone to, you know, to for fodder or was it always going to be, listen, this is who I am. This is my story. This is what I’m going to talk about.

Tig: No, I mean, I’ve evolved as a comedian over the years and had started as more of a one liner comedian and observational jokes and all of that. And then in 2012, I got deathly ill with three different diseases, pneumonia, C-diff, which is an intestinal disease. And then I had invasive, invasive cancer. And my mother tripped, hit her head and died. And my girlfriend and I split up. And that was in a four month period of time. And then I went on stage and kind of made this decision that I was going to talk about everything I was going through, because I already had the show booked and everything was going on. And, I had never really been that open on stage. And, I didn’t know it was going to happen not only to me in my life, but with the audience. And, I always say they were the exact perfect audience that night because they really carried me through that. And every now and then when I’m out in the world, I run into somebody that was at that show and, I feel an immediate connection like that is my old buddy. But I think as time has gone on, that was in 2012 and, yeah, I’ve done a lot of standup about that time period. I put out a book and a documentary TV show, all of these different things. And, and I think that coming through that time period and all of these different projects, I’ve realized that there is still that part of me that just likes to write a joke or to be ridiculous or, maybe I’ll share something heavy or personal that maybe I want. And, and I’ve. So I’ve been trying to find the balance of sharing myself, but also, knowing that I don’t have to all the time. Yeah. So and just that I have those things that I’ve put out into the world that I can point to and be like, well, there’s a book, there’s a TV show, there’s a standup special documentary, all of these things, and it’s nice and it’s been helpful to people. But, but yeah, I have to find the sweet spot for myself as well.

Amy: That was obviously a decision you made for yourself to share your story. But in the TV show, in your books, your entire families included. Yeah. So how do they feel, you know, about you speaking so freely. Yeah. About your life and their role in it.

Tig: They’re good. I mean, my parents have since passed away. My stepfather was the final one. He passed away a couple of years ago. But, my mother never edited me. Yeah. And then when. And I was wondering how my brother, my stepfather, my extended family, I was curious how they would feel. But, yeah, everybody was just really supportive and, even with my book, my stepfather, he went and bought it the day it came out, and he said he sat in the car in the parking lot and started reading it and sat there for hours reading that I just had.

Jen: That’s so I don’t know. That’s dear.

Tig: Yeah. It’s really nice. But yeah, I’ve always kind of had that luxury when my family didn’t agree with me on things or. And that’s not to say they didn’t agree with what I wrote about or said, but they didn’t edit me.

Jen: That is a big deal. That’s massive. It really is. I mean, that was real fertile soil for you to grow up into the exact person you have become. And I find that kind of rare, honestly, except when I hear you talk about your mom, as you just mentioned, and I realized, oh, you came from a free spirit, she had her own way of being in the world. And so knowing what you said about her, it does help make sense of the fact that she went, go run into your field. I know you’ve talked at length about her, but she’s a character. Can you talk a little bit about growing up with your mom and what she was like in the house and what it was like being a kid in that home?

Tig: Well, it was a roller coaster, that’s for sure. But, you know, probably like everybody’s life, there was a, I mean, a lot of great stuff, and there was a lot of not so great. My mother was an artist, and she was really, really funny. And I always tell people that she was somebody that nobody would ever say to me, oh, yeah, I, I think I met your mother. But she was also, you know, she drank, she partied. She kind of did her own thing. And, she was not the stereotypical mother. And, and that’s what she would say, you’re not going to come home and have cookies baked for me. But, but I think that her, the side of her that was an artist and was such a free spirit, I mean, she is the back of our home is her canvas. And painted all over the back and, and, I think she just really connected with that side of me. That was an artist. And, and my struggles in school, she wanted me to do well, but I think she understood. And, she was, I don’t, I don’t know, like, I when people have that. People will say to me even still, they’ll say, are you sad your mother didn’t see you nominated for this award or on this? And I’m like, for me, it’s more, I wish she could have met my children and my wife, you know, because my mother, I was never doing stand up for her approval. And I think, and, if I was in some smoky saloon in South Dakota. Sure. Making $50 a night, she thought I was cool, you know, because I was pursuing what I wanted to pursue. And one of the things that I was told growing up by her always was to tell everyone to go to hell if they had a problem with me. And I think having that instilled in me really, and it’s and I certainly do not walk around telling everyone to go to hell. But, I think there’s this thing in me, whether you can whether, you know, I was told that growing up or not, I think people can feel it that I don’t have, like, a desperation, and I’m not going to do backflips for anybody. And, and if you have a problem with me, I mean, certainly if somebody has a problem, a legit problem with me and there’s something since it’s.

Jen: Yeah, if you’ve been an asshole, you can deal with it.

Tig: But no, I, I feel very lucky that, like, from the time I was very little, she was like, you tell them all to go to hell.

Jen: And so can you imagine being raised in that sort of self-assurance? No, I mean, I really cannot, we have the opposite. It was basically everybody else’s, like, needs and opinions and thoughts matter the most, right? It will kind of shape shift to make those possible. But I mean, I cannot imagine being handed that level of freedom. I know at a young age and how you were able to sort of move in a liberated way into young adulthood. That’s a gift for sure.

Tig: For sure. It’s a gift. I’m so thankful for it.

Amy: And, yeah, I think it comes across in big ways, but also in little ways. I’ll admit, last night, in between watching the news, I was flipping back and forth to your old episode of Under a Rock. Like where you have no clue who a celebrity is.

Tig: Yeah!

Amy: They give you clues and you’re just unabashedly not heard of them. Not ashamed at all of not knowing who anyone is. It was so refreshing honestly. And their reaction of wait you really you really don’t know me. And you’re like, no, but like, let’s figure it out.

Jen: Give me a clue.

Tig: Yeah.

Jen: Yeah, that’s….

Tig: Well, they knew what they were coming on the show floor, which is helpful. So if they got the concept and people would write to me and say, oh, this is so not true, you know who celebrities are? Yeah. It’s like, of course I’ve worked with celebrities, I’ve watched different celebrities, but I don’t follow pop culture right in, like, I was going to say in the way that most people do. I mean, I follow it in that I work in entertainment. And so I know some shows that are on. I know some celebrities, but I, I, I asked my sons, I don’t know, probably within the past six months they said, have you have either of you seen me turn the TV on or watch it or and they’re like, no. And, and Stephanie, my wife makes fun of me because, the way our couches are situated in our TV room, I’m often at the end of a couch facing away from the TV and looking at everybody that’s in the room, and whatever my family’s watching, they’re they’re looking in that direction. I’m looking at them and Stephanie pointed that out recently. She was like, even just how you sit on the couch, you have your back to the TV. But yeah, Under a Rock. It’s based on, it’s true. It’s very true.

Jen: Is that also how you do with social media? Are you a non-user?

Tig: No, I have an Instagram account. I first started it to document photos of our cat.

Jen: Sure.

Tig: And then I had done a bluff. Yeah. Fluff. Well, we have three cats now, but the account was made for Fluff when she was our only cat and I had done a show with the comedian Kevin Nealon. Sure.

Jen: Oh, that’s my friend.

Tig: Yeah. And I showed Kevin a picture of my cat. And I remember he tagged me on that show. And then that’s how I started getting followers, because I had never shared my account with anyone, and I was truly just showing him my cat. But he flagged, I guess, the name of my account. But yeah, I’m on, I’m on Instagram. But probably not as much as the average person.

Jen: That sounds nice. I want to be. I want to be like that.

Amy: Is as open as you are with your own life and your family of origin. Do you and Stephanie talk about the role your kids will play in that space as they get older?

Jen: How old are they now? The boys.

Tig: They will be eight and a half in December. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah.

Jen: Yeah, that’s a good question.

Amy: I mean, parenting is such good material.

Tig: I’m sure you’re asking what their role will be. Yeah.

Amy: And what like, will you be as open about their lives and, yeah. Your parenting experience as they get older.

Tig: Yeah. I guess they might decide that. I mean, before I had a family, I didn’t really consider anything or anyone because my, like I said, my family never edited me. So when I went on stage, I just talked about whatever and anytime my mother was uncomfortable with something, I would tease her because I would notice. She would move air from one cheek to the other.

Tig: She could.

Jen: Tell.

Tig: And I would say, oh, you’re uncomfortable with that? And she’d be like, well, you know, shrug, sure. But, it was never like, don’t say anything or don’t tell anybody that. It was more like it was her calling it. And, so, once I got together with Stephanie, there were moments where she would point something out and say, I don’t know if that’s for anyone but us. And then I’d be like, oh, okay. Yeah. And I had not ever considered, like I said, anybody with stand up and then but it made sense and she’s, it’s not like she’s ego lying, everything I’m doing. But sometimes she would hear things and be like, yeah, I don’t know about that. And then when we had children, it was more so. And I think I just naturally started to be like, oh, right. This is not just about me now. And we don’t show our kids on social media anymore. And, but we still talk about them on stage and they love it.

Jen: They do.

Tig: Oh. They love it so much. And, when I leave to go, when I leave the house to go do a show, when I’m in LA, I’ll say, all right, guys, I have to go, tell jokes and stories about, you know, kiss them goodnight and, and they get really excited. So I guess if that shifts or if Stephanie flags something and it’s like, I feel like that needs to end, then we’ll have another discussion.

Jen: And it does. It evolves. I, I envy your perch from which you sit, which you at least have a little bit of social media experience under your belt to kind of do this. Well, my kids were super little before we even had the internet. Hardly at all. And so I didn’t have any precedent for it. And so I think I would do things a lot differently now, kind of having watched social media evolve and change and watching how it’s affected my kids and their adolescence and their young adulthood. And there’s just, there are better guardrails, I think, around being a public person on social media than there used to be when it was just the Wild West.

Tig: Yeah.

Jen: And so when the kids shift, they’ll let you know. And it’s good to follow their lead. Although I. Please indulge me. I know this is all over, all over the national television sets that we own. But speaking of telling stories about your kids, we, I saw your clip on Colbert. Will you please just tell the story about your, the sons who were apparently confused about you?

Tig: Yeah. Yeah. So they’re almost eight-and-a-half. When they were seven-and-a-half, Stephanie and I were driving them to school, and their school is six minutes away from our house. We were going to drop them off and go start our day, and, and we were just chatting in the front seat, and Max and Finn are chatting in the backseat like we always do. And Stephanie made some comment about us being gay and our son Finn leaned forward and he said.

Amy: You’re gay?

Tig: I turned around and said, yeah.

And then he said, what’s gay? And I was like, what is happening? I was so confused because there are pictures around our house of our wedding day. They know they have two moms. So I explained what gay was, and we’re like three minutes away from the school. And some explaining what gay is to seven and a half year olds. And then I, and I felt insecure because I thought if. Yeah, while I was describing things, I was like, oh, what if they’re thinking, oh, this isn’t the family I want, you know? And so I said, what do you guys think about what I’m telling you? And, and Finn was like, I love our family and I, and I just had this, like, relief. And then we drop them off, and Stephanie and I drive home going, like, half a mile an hour, just like what just happened. Our kids didn’t know we were gay. And the more we talked about it, we realized that just because they know that we’re married or that they have two moms, that doesn’t equal gay.

Jen: Sure.

Tig: Because we never came out to them. And I’ve, you know, I’m sitting here looking the way I do on this podcast. I’m wearing a flannel. It’s been so long since I’ve had to sit down and say to somebody, I have something to tell you about my life that might be surprising. And I did not think I had to come out to my children. And then I got a call, you know, Ira Glass from This American Life. They wanted to do, they had heard the story on Colbert as well, and they were like, oh, we want to do it, we want to talk to you about doing a segment about your follow up conversation that you had with Max and Finn.

Tig: And I was like, what follow-up? We didn’t have a follow-up.

Jen: Right. They just went into second grade.

Tig: Yeah. We never talked about it again. So then I already felt like a terrible parent. And then now I’m like, oh my gosh, I didn’t have a follow up conversation. We’re even worse than I thought. And so I, you know, they’re like, okay, can we send you these, this list of questions and we record your kids and you have the follow up question, conversation for this segment. And I was like, yeah, sure. And so Max and Finn are coloring, and I go in and I’m like, hey, guys. And I have a document with me that I’m trying to hide, and I’m hiding my phone. And, because if they knew I was recording them, they would be so irritated. And so I’m truly reading a document going, so when you found out I was gay, how did you feel?

Tig: And they’re and they’re just like, fine. 

And I’m like, when you talk to staff and faculty at your school…, so, you know, and so I’m asking them all these questions and they’re so annoyed. They just want to be coloring but the beauty of it is that I came back to This American Life with my kids, that it’s nothing to them.

Tig: Right. It is nothing. They truly, if anything, I just looked so lame that like, they were looking at me like, why are you being weird? Get a life. You loser gay person. Go find something to do. 

And so it was really, actually nice to come back and just feel like it –what I tell people is the way they respond about it is if I said to you, Jen, or you, Amy, how did it feel the day you realize you were a human being and how did you feel like?

Jen: What do you mean?

Tig: No, no, no. Tell me deep down, was it like processing here? Like, tell me.

Jen: Why is she acting like this?

Tig: Yeah, that was my kids were truly like, you’re a loser. You don’t get a life, you’re gay. We get it. Who cares?

Jen: Boring. What’s for dinner?

I can’t with the, when you speak to staff and faculty. I was just tickled. Oh, my gosh, that’s amazing. 

I would love to ask you, though. I mean, in that camp. So the boys are like, you know, tra la la. But the truth is that you have meant a lot to the LGBTQ+ community. A lot. Your work has mattered and your comeuppance was during a time where it’s so bananas to see the difference in representation. Really, just in the last decade, it’s been quick work. Comparatively speaking, when you look backward over the scope of history. And so your voice has been really, really impactful, even just your presence on stage, your presence on a show, your presence on the New York Times list like that has mattered. And you’ve been rewarded and honored for that a lot of times. And so I think I would just love my, I’ve got a queer kid. She’s 24. And so she’s kind of, her coming-out story was on the precipice of things getting really better. And so she’s still got a foot back in those shameful days where she was afraid and in the closet and hiding and nervous. And now to watch it just ten years later.

Tig: Yeah.

Jen: So much improvement. So that’s a very, very, very long runway to simply ask you, what has that meant to you? You’re just being yourself. You’re just being yourself in an honest way. But just in front of a lot of people. And so I’d love to hear what that has felt like for you over the course of the past decade, more or less. And what you’re hopeful for, not just for more queer people in your space, but just period. Just in the world.

Tig: I mean. Well, thank you for all of the nice things that you said. And, and I think that, kind of it all ties back also to my mother, of. You know, I didn’t just, like, bust out of the closet. I went through my own process, figuring things out. I wasn’t born knowing that I was gay.

Tig: My kids weren’t born knowing I was gay.

Jen: Clearly.

Tig: But, you know, when I did come out, it was just an authentic feeling and decision of, like, I this is who I am, and even in my work, whatever I’m doing, it’s like, right now I’m in Toronto filming Star Trek and Star Trek has been such a, since day one, since it first aired. It’s this open, inclusive, diverse universe, and it’s such a pleasure to be a part of positive things. And actually, if I can share this, you can, one of my favorite things that my son Max said recently, I guess this is where I hope the world is going. He said to us, he watches cartoons. That’s his thing. And he said, you know what I’ve noticed about all of the cartoons I watch? And we were like, what? And he said, every family has one dad, one mom, one brother, one sister, one dog, one cat, and a goldfish. And we were like, yeah, what do you make of that? And he said, well, I don’t think that’s what most families look like. And we said, why do you think they, do that? And he said, well, I’m sure they do that for diversity and inclusion.

Tig: So if I know and not believe how hilariously backwards he had that. But in his mind, the cartoons are checking off for everyone.

Jen: And to make a room for these people with dads, you know, like they believe here too.

Tig: Yes, yes yes. Oh my God. So that’s where I hope things are going that a child is watching. Oh, we didn’t expect him to say that either. I hope that when kids are watching cartoons and they see that they think that that is for diversity and inclusion. So because of the world he’s coming from. Yeah.

Jen: Oh my gosh. Oh God. I mean I carry that in my heart all day long.

Tig: It’s pretty incredible.

Jen: It’s so incredible.

Amy: Okay. Well anything before we wrap up. Yes. We’ve got a few. Just like rapid fire, quick, lighthearted questions.

Jen: Just a little touch down.

Amy: What’s your favorite place to do stand-up?

Tig: Where’s my favorite place? I would say probably at Largo in Los Angeles. It’s just a venue that I have regularly performed near monthly for probably 25 years.

Jen: Wow. hometown crowd. Yeah. What is the weirdest gig you’ve ever done?

Tig: Well. Gosh, there’s been so many. But the weirdest would be, my first college agent that I ever got, she was a very specific agent who, when colleges didn’t use up all of their money for, you know, entertainment, she would hire her clients on these college gigs for much less money than most college performers would make. Just to get you in there performing at the college. And maybe you only make $2,500, and that’s your fee. And you could be performing in a cafeteria or, you know, just nobody listening to you, that kind of thing. And, and I was just at a point in my career, I was like, wow, this is good money. And this is a great opportunity to get into colleges. And I got booked at Pepperdine University. Okay. And I show up and because this money was like the last bit of money, the reason they have to use up all their money is so they get the same. If the college doesn’t use all of their budget, they don’t get that. They cut it. So I get booked, I go to Pepperdine and because it’s not a person or a gig that the college cares about, I show up, it’s in a student lounge and nobody’s there.

Jen: Zero people?

Tig: Zero people are in the lounge, and it’s me and the two people from the college that have booked me. And I’m like, so what do we do? And they said, you have to do your show. So cruel. And so I was like, wow, oh, wow. Okay. And I said, is it okay if I just sat because they were sitting on a couch and I said, do you mind if I just sit on the couch with you at all? And so I sat between them with a microphone plugged in, and I just told them my jokes for an hour. So what? 

Jen: No way is that my secondhand embarrassment is out. It’s through the roof right now. So you just kind of went back and forth?

Tig: Yeah, I was just like. So when I was in seventh grade…

Tig: But I also, you know, it’s awkward, but I also am kind of the perfect person for that because you know, again, they can go to hell. It’s fine. Sure it’s not. It’s. I wasn’t even met. I was like, this is so insane.

Jen: You’re like, I will cash my $2,500 check. Thanks for the memories.

Tig: That’s my rent.

Jen: Oh, God.

Tig: Yeah.

Amy: Okay. Okay. Last one. You come from a line of artists like your mother and your grandmother. If you weren’t an actor and comedian, do you think you would have been in the arts like your family or do you think you;d be doing something completely different?

Tig: Well, I also play guitar and drums and I and I did pursue that for a little while, but I’m not great at either of them. I’m just okay, but I probably would have still pursued that. And then Stephanie and I also talk about if we didn’t do what we do now, what would we do? Yeah. And, she would be the person that is in the little box on a bridge that pushes the button and the bridge opens so the boat can go through.

Jen: Somebody has to do that.

Tig: Yeah. And she wanted to do that so she could read all day. Sure. And then I told her that I would, like, say, playing music didn’t work out. My fallback would be and I would not put it past me to still do this now if my career went to hell. But, I would deliver pizza.

Jen: Sure.

Tig: This makes sense. I did that years ago when I was a teenager, and I think it’s a perfect job. And I’ll tell you why. And it’s because you have a job, but you don’t have to be in your job, at the job with your boss or anything. And you get in your car, you listen to whatever music you want, your car smells like pizza.

Tig: Yum. And then you deliver pizza and you get cold, hard cash in your hand.

Jen: Right on the spot.

I mean, really, where’s the downside is my question.

Tig: There isn’t. I hear you. Oh, and on the side I have a band. Yeah.

Jen: I love this so much. Yeah.

Amy: People who are getting their pizza delivered are happy people.

Jen: Happy to see you.

Tig: Absolutely. But there is nothing bad about this job. And when I had it, I loved it. And I would go in. I liked my coworkers and it’d be nice to see them for a second. I get in the car and smell pizza.

Jen: Brilliant. I don’t hate that at all. Okay. Thank you for making us laugh this morning. I did not think it was possible and I am just. I cannot believe we’ve just laughed for the last 40 minutes and I’m delighted. And just for being who you are, we are. We are. We’re humongous fans of you and have been for a really long time. And we were so looking forward to talking to you. And so thank you for being with us on this weird morning.

Tig: And thank you for having me. It was so nice to connect with some people on this day.Like I’m truly just alone in my apartment in Toronto. 

Jen: May the Star Trek people love you well today. May they come around you.

Tig: Yes. Thank you. 

Now am I able to promote my podcast? Oh my gosh. Do you guys do all of that?

Jen: Here’s my question right here. Ask Tig what she’s loving right now about what she’s doing. Please tell us.

Amy: Tell us about Handsome.

Tig: Yeah. I have a podcast called Handsome. I do that with my fellow comedians, Fortune Feimster and Mae Martin.

Amy: It’s hilarious. I’m a listener.

Tig: And, well, thank you. And then I’m currently working on new material, a lot about my kids. And, I’m performing regularly in Toronto, in LA and working on this new material, and, and then my, my special Hello Again is on Amazon and it’s also out. The audio version is out now. So get that for the holidays.

Jen: You’re just killing it. You’re killing it out there. It’s working out. It’s working out.

Tig: And if it doesn’t, you know, I’ve got pizza. 

Amy: There you go. Oh, and I forgot to tell you at the top, you have a doppelganger. 

Tig: Oh. Is it my Tom Cruise friend?

Amy: No, I would say my oldest friend, but that’s not kind. The person I’ve been friends with the longest. Like kindergarten.

Jen: Does she get mistaken all the time for Tig?

Amy: She was just in Paris and someone came up and asked her.

Jen: Oh.

Tig: Tig. Well, recently somebody said to me, no offense, but you look like, that comedian Tig Notaro. And I was like, oh, well, that’s me. And he’s like, no. Oh my.

Amy: Gosh, no offense.

Jen: I hate it here.

Tig: No offense.

Jen: None taken sir. Well.

Amy: But she always considered it a huge compliment.

Jen: Very good.

Tig: Thank you.

Jen: Oh it’s amazing. Okay. Thanks for being with us.

Tig: Thank you, thank you. Nice to see you.

Jen: All right, you guys, I hope that interview found you in a happy place or it certainly left you in a happy place. And I, for one, am just thankful to have had this hour with her and with Amy and with you. And so she’s got so much awesome stuff to watch and read and consume. And so if you have missed it, I will round all of it up for you. Go over to Jen hatmaker.com under the podcast tab. We’ll have this episode if you want to share it. We will have show notes and then we’ll put all of her things, socials, movies, books, shows, all of it so you can make up for lost time if you are new to the Tig universe. And so, thank you for listening and being with us today. We are glad to have had a community that feels like a safe place to land on days that are both hard and sometimes surprisingly wonderful. That’s I guess that’s how life is. That’s life. I guess that’s how life is.

Amy: And so thanks for being with us.

Jen: Thanks for being with us. See you next week.

 

 

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

 

Annette Benning

John Travolta

Cher

Olivia Coleman

Broadchurch

Wicked Little Letters

Taika Waititi

Ryan Reynolds

Denzel Washington

Julia Roberts

Notting Hill

Jason Bateman

Smartless Docuseries

I’m Just a Person by Tig Notaro

Tig: A Netflix Documentary

One Mississippi TV series

Under a Rock with Tig Notaro

Kevin Nealon

This American Life with Ira Glass

Star Trek: Discovery

Hello Again