Beyond Words: Listening to a Hidden Community — Ky Dickens and The Telepathy Tapes

Jen Hatmaker: Hi, welcome to the show. We’re so glad you’re here.

Ky Dickens: Hello. Hi, how are you all? There’s so many people. Ta da da! Yeah. Ahaha! I’m so thrilled to be here.

Jen Hatmaker: I’m Jen, Kai, and this is Amy. Nice to finally meet you. We’ve been talking about you for a long time.

Ky Dickens: Hi Amy, hi Jen. Likewise.

Jen Hatmaker: We’ve conjured you right into our show. Welcome.

Ky Dickens: It’s a great pleasure to be here.

Jen Hatmaker: This is so fun. Let’s talk about when you first mentioned this is something we need to listen to, discuss, have Kai on, make an episode, make a series.

Amy Hardin: I think I was on episode two, and we had lunch. Thai food. Someone else had just told you to listen. I spent the next 30 minutes offloading everything I had listened to in the two episodes. We’ve been talking about it ever since.

Jen Hatmaker: Thank you for saying yes to coming on the show.

Before we get into the Telepathy Tapes, we’d love to talk about you because you’re such an interesting storyteller and filmmaker. You don’t come from the world of neuroscience and the metaphysical world. That’s not your background. Could you talk a little about your career and what it is that you have been drawn to thus far?

Ky Dickens: Thank you for asking that question, Jen. I never anticipated making something about telepathy. Until 2020, I mostly worked on social issue documentaries, shedding light on healthcare, paid family medical leave, LGBTQ equality in the church, and more. It felt like a matter of life and death with unfair policies harming people. I tumbled into this not purposefully. I had two good friends in the prime of their lives, and I thought, “If I’m going to spend years working on a project, maybe I should focus on fixing the brokenness in me and humanity.” I started reading about consciousness, near-death experiences, and plant communication. I happened upon an interview with Dr. Diane Hennessy-Powell, studying telepathy claims in non-speakers with autism.

Jen Hatmaker: That is so left field. I’m trying to imagine you reading that article and catching a spark. Were you met with skepticism from people in your life, in your world, family and and career like, c’mon man?

Ky Dickens: I was terrified to tell people. I didn’t know what it was at first. Dr. Diane Hennessey Powell is a credible scientist, but I didn’t know if the data was incorrect or if it was wishful thinking. I tumbled into this, unsure if I was debunking anything. Two years prior, I would have gone out to debunk it, but I wouldn’t have gained the trust of families, scientists, teachers, and therapists, ministers, rabbis, all the people experiencing this. I went in asking, “What’s really going on?” Season one of the telepathy tapes uncovers that it wasn’t just one family. It was multiple families, teachers, principals, therapists, faith leaders, and more, all over the world. I felt like I was in a web. I came to believe this is very true, and the science is catching up. I kept it a secret until the telepathy tapes came out. I didn’t want my agents or clients to know until I could lay it all out.

Amy Hardin: Can you give an overview of the subject matter for people who haven’t listened to the podcast?

Ky Dickens: Parents of non-speaking individuals, usually with apraxia, often have autism. It’s a mind-body disconnect. These individuals have a difficult time controlling their body. Doctors and teachers assumed they couldn’t connect or communicate. I realized they are competent. They understand everything but can’t control their body. Speech is a fine motor skill, but pointing to letters is a gross motor skill. Non-speaking individuals were being unlocked. It can take years or months to train, but once unlocked, they started saying unbelievable things like, “Mom, Dad, I can read your thoughts.” Parents were corroborating each other’s experiences. They started doing telepathy tests, like listening to a song in another room and asking the child to identify it. Parents always kind of knew but couldn’t validate it until communication was established.

Some parents said autism is hard. They’d have awful thoughts, and their child would start screaming or hitting themselves. Teachers noticed this too with speaking students. They’d put a color over their head, and the kids could identify it. Some teachers don’t even teach out loud; they ask questions in their head, and the kids answer. It’s remarkably unbelievable.

Jen Hatmaker: Totally. People listening who haven’t hooked into the Telepathy Tapes yet might be skeptical. But after experiment after test, you can’t deny it. Stunning investigation. This has to have changed you. How do you now think about consciousness and what it means to be human? Has this fundamentally reoriented your molecules?

Ky Dickens: Absolutely. I was trying to make sense of it too. There has to be a scientific explanation. The podcast veers into meetings with scientists studying consciousness. Season two explores other things I dismissed, like near-death experiences and mediums. Indigenous communities have long known about extrasensory perception. Our mind might extend beyond our body, like a gravitational field. This was commonplace knowledge for our ancestors. Science is wonderful, but we started worshiping it, thinking it had all the answers. I don’t think it’s binary that people have to be that dogmatic about science. We can investigate and understand the truth about the non-physical world. It’s not silly, or unscientific or gullible to do so.

Amy Hardin: I want to talk about the science behind this. I’m a skeptic, even though I’m often accused of being woo-woo. I want data or personal experience. Science is under attack, and the stakes are high. Can you explain materialism and the pyramid of sciences and how putting consciousness at the top of the pyramid is a backwards approach?

Ky Dickens: Materialism is the belief that only things that can be measured and observed are real. It’s shaped our world, with biology, physics, math, and psychology at the base. Consciousness is at the top, a result of the physical world. Some scientists are rethinking this, suggesting consciousness is fundamental, and the physical world arose from it. Everything in this world started as a thought. If consciousness is fundamental, it explains everything, including extrasensory perception.

Amy Hardin: Why is there pushback, especially with quantum physics gaining traction? Why is there such a disconnect?

Ky Dickens: We want to trust our belief systems. If they’re questioned, we question everything, which is scary. Our world operates on secrets, like patents and governments and corporations. There’s pushback around telepathy and mind reading.

Jen Hatmaker: After the Telepathy Tapes, you started working on a documentary. You wanted to amplify the science and bring more scientists into the fold. What did you find?

Ky Dickens: We wanted to involve non-speaking individuals in the conversation. We did a roundtable with research teams and non-speakers. One scientist said we don’t always need to test in a lab. Anecdotal evidence can be significant. Science often mocks and ridicules new ideas, but they turn out to be true. Our beliefs change. Just because you can explain something doesn’t take the magic away.

Jen Hatmaker: There’s precedence for new understanding. Every generation of scientists thinks they’re at the most enlightened point. This isn’t the first time a new wave of understanding has come in.

I want to talk about a story from the first series that made me pause. It was about the Hill. Can you describe that to our listeners?

Ky Dickens: Early on, I thought moms could do this with their non-speaking children. Then I heard it from teachers. Non-speakers said they could talk to each other this way. In Atlanta, mothers said their sons go to a telepathic chat room called the Hill. It’s a metaphysical place. I thought it was an Atlanta thing, but then I heard it from others. A teacher in Arizona said her students have telepathy. A dad in Jerusalem has documented this for decades. There are multiple Hills, and it’s a common occurrence.

Amy Hardin: I still have trouble believing it, but I think it’s because I don’t understand it. There’s a huge amount of experiences we consider spiritual — seeing angels, seeing demons, talking to people who have passed. Are you parsing out science versus spiritual? And how do you manage that? Is your goal to understand all of it or to document it and let the listener decide?

Ky Dickens: It’s important to put the information out there and let listeners decide. Science and spirituality aren’t enemies. Some things were considered spiritual but later proven true. Non-speakers communicate with people who’ve passed, offering evidential information. It’s hard to dismiss. There are real mediums, but also bad actors. Non-speakers have nothing to gain, so when they are saying something of deep consequence, it’s hard to look away because their words carry weight.

Jen Hatmaker: One non-speaker said the gods visit her at night, teaching her mysteries and languages. She had no access to this knowledge in her ordinary life. What do you think about what non-speakers are telling you about God?

Ky Dickens: Non-speakers define love as anything that unifies. When asked if there’s one true religion, they say all religions love God. The act of faith is more important than the fact of faith. Non-speakers talk about traveling to gods at night. It’s fascinating. There’s an informational field out there that people tap into. I haven’t met a single non-speaker who doesn’t talk about people who’ve passed and about the very real existence of God in an afterlife. Also angels… that comes up a lot.

Amy Hardin: It’s fascinating. It challenges our need for certainty. Why are we here? What created us? What matters? What is love? What is unifying? These are huge questions. Non-speakers clarify them in one sentence.

I have a question from a friend with a nonverbal son with severe autism. Do you see concrete things coming out of this interest in telepathy, new modalities, new ways to unlock people who are disconnected from their bodies? What do you see coming down the road in the next five years to help these individuals?

Ky Dickens: It’s the most important question. My hope is that these individuals and their families, facing challenges and isolation, find support. Donors and investors want to help. A mom from the Telepathy Tapes is starting a company called Stella. Speech language pathologists are working on a new spelling modality. We’re trying to create centers for respite care and job opportunities. We’ve started a nonprofit to give grants for spelling coaches or immersive spelling camps. The landscape will be hugely different in five years. So many universities are taking this seriously. The tide is turning. People are activating to action. This isn’t just a podcast they’re walking away from.

Jen Hatmaker: It’s amazing. I’m perceiving non-speakers differently. When a mom finally got access to spelling instruction, she felt heartbroken that her son had been locked inside for so long. These individuals are gifted members of society. Your work is explaining this community to us in a way we wouldn’t have known. Thank you for that.

Ky Dickens: It’s a big loving community. I want to give people some tips that have helped me. If you see a non-speaker, encourage them by asking their body to do something because they are different from their body. I saw a non-speaker in the airport having a hard time. I sat next to him and said, “I know you can’t control that, and I know you’re in there, and I think you’re awesome. I just want you to know that.” He calmed down. Sending good thoughts helps.

Amy Hardin: Even if you’re not comfortable engaging with someone in public, they can sense your thoughts. We are surrounded by people who can perceive what we are thinking about ourselves and about them.

Jen Hatmaker: It matters. We’re cheering you on. Huge fans, thrilled about season two. Your work is fascinating and exciting. It’s wonderful to watch.

Ky Dickens: Thank you for saying that. It’s a new understanding of our world. I’m excited to be in this momentum forward. If you’re just onboarding, start with season one of the telepathy tapes. It goes through the discovery of non-speakers and their gifts. Season two deep dives into energy healing, animal communication, mediumship, and more. By the end of season two, people might believe consciousness survives the body.

Jen Hatmaker: It’s so exciting. You earned it with this incredible content. We’re happy to have met you. It’s been a good conversation.

Ky Dickens: Thank you. Likewise, thank you for the nice questions. Take care.

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The Telepathy Tapes

BT Harman

Dr. Diane Hennacy Powell

Elizabeth Gilbert

Rick Rubin

Gregory Shushan

Jane Goodall