Many of us were taught that desire is dangerous—something to manage, suppress, or feel ashamed of. But what if desire isn’t the problem at all? What if it’s not just about sex or attraction, but about the places we feel most alive?
Today, Jen and Amy sit down with FTL fan-favorite Jay Stringer, a licensed therapist and author whose work helps people understand the deeper stories shaping their desires—especially the ones we’ve been taught to hide, or silence. Drawing from his powerful new book Desire, Jay reframes desire not as a moral failure or impulse to eliminate, but as a signal worth listening to—one that points us toward what formed us, what wounded us, and what we are still longing for beneath the surface.
Jay shifts the focus from behavior modification to understanding the story behind desire—for intimacy, success, escape, creativity, or belonging—shaped by early attachment, trauma, and unmet needs. The conversation moves from “What’s wrong with me?” to “What happened to me?” turning desire from shame into meaning. This is not a conversation about labeling or fixing yourself. It’s about understanding yourself—how your story formed you, and how listening to what brings you to life can lead toward freedom, wholeness, and deeper connection.
This episode also serves as the opening doorway into our Wilderness & Wonder series. In a season when many of us are navigating uncertainty—spiritually, relationally, or internally—this episode grounds us in the idea that exploration isn’t aimlessness, but formation. That the wilderness can be a teacher. And that desire itself may be one of the quiet guides helping us stay awake, curious, and present as we learn how to live inside the questions.
This is a gentle conversation, but it’s also a brave one. And we’re really glad you’re here for it.
Sometimes the most liberating advice comes down to just two words.
In this encore presentation, Jen revisits a fan-favorite conversation with Mel Robbins—one of the most influential voices in the motivational sphere today, and host of the #1 education podcast in the world. This episode originally stopped listeners in their tracks, and it’s just as powerful the second time around.
Together, Jen, Amy, and Mel unpack Mel’s now-iconic “Let Them” theory—a deceptively simple mindset shift that has brought immediate relief, clarity, and freedom to people navigating relationships, expectations, disappointment, and self-worth. At its core, Let Them invites us to loosen our grip on what we cannot control and reclaim our peace in the process.
In this conversation, they explore:
- The crucial difference between “Let Them” and “Let Me”
- How releasing control over others’ behavior can radically change your relationships
- What it looks like to move your sense of worth inward, instead of outsourcing it to other people’s opinions
Whether you’re hearing this for the first time or returning to it with fresh eyes, this encore is a grounding reminder: you don’t need to manage everyone else to live a freer life. Sometimes the bravest move is simply letting them—and choosing yourself.
In this special listener voicemail episode, Jen and Amy turn the mic outward—listening closely to the voices, stories, and wisdom of the community that makes this show what it is.
From reflections sparked by our Wake Up Call season to deeply personal responses to Jen’s book Awake, these messages trace a powerful throughline: what happens when we begin to tell the truth about our lives—and make space for who we’re becoming.
Listeners share how conversations with Lee C. Camp, John Fugelsang, Melani Sanders, and Chrissy King stirred something awake in them, naming long-held questions around faith, body, identity, and courage. Others call in to reflect on the uncanny resonance of Awake, beginning again and again with the same line: “Jen, our stories are very similar.”
This episode is tender, funny, and honest—a reminder that none of us are doing this work alone. It’s about waking up, letting go, finding language for the ache, and choosing what comes next—together.
If you’ve ever wondered whether your voice matters here, this episode is your answer.
Many of us were taught that strength looks like independence. Don’t need too much. Don’t ask for help. Don’t lean on others. And then—somewhere along the way—we find ourselves lonely, exhausted, or quietly resentful, wondering why connection feels so hard and so heavy at the same time. We want closeness, but we’re afraid of needing too much. We want support, but we don’t know how to ask for it without losing ourselves.
Today’s guest is someone who has helped millions of people name that tension—and find a gentler, healthier way forward. Nedra Glover Tawwab is a licensed therapist, relationship expert, and New York Times bestselling author of Set Boundaries, Find Peace and Drama Free. With more than fifteen years of clinical experience, she has become one of the most trusted voices in modern mental health, helping people navigate boundaries, attachment, emotional health, and sustainable connection in real, everyday life.
Nedra ‘s work consistently meets people with clarity, compassion, and deep respect for how hard relationships can be. Her new book, The Balancing Act, invites us to rethink what healthy connection actually looks like—not as hyper-independence or over-functioning, but as learning how to depend on one another without disappearing in the process.
In this conversation, we talk about:
- The major attachment styles and how they quietly shape our relationships
- Why so many of us confuse independence with emotional health
- The dependency spectrum—and how to recognize where we’re over- or under-functioning
- When closeness crosses into enmeshment, and how to find your way back
- Gentle, practical first steps toward healthy dependency and asking for help
We honestly could not think of a better person to help us wake up in the area of mental health. This conversation is tender, honest, and deeply freeing—and it offers language for places you may have felt stuck, tired, or alone for a long time. You are not broken. You are learning how to connect.
Sometimes a wake up call doesn’t arrive as a crisis. Sometimes it arrives as a quiet realization: the way I’m living isn’t actually working.
In this encore episode, we revisit a powerful conversation with James Clear, bestselling author of Atomic Habits, whose work has helped millions rethink how real, lasting change actually happens. Not through willpower, reinvention, or overnight transformation—but through the small, often invisible choices we make every day.
This conversation is a wake up call to the myth of “someday”, a wake up call to waiting for motivation before we act, and a wake up call to the belief that big change requires big drama.
James breaks down why habits are less about self-discipline and more about identity, environment, and systems—and how the patterns we repeat, often unconsciously, are shaping our lives for better or worse. Together, we explore how paying attention to what we practice daily can wake us up to the lives we’re actually building.
If you’re standing at the edge of change—feeling stuck in patterns you can’t seem to break, exhausted by self-improvement cycles, or longing for a more sustainable way forward—this episode offers a grounded, hopeful reset.
Let this be your wake up call to begin again, not perfectly, not dramatically, but honestly, intentionally, and one doable step at a time.
This is your wake up call: your body was never the problem.
By midlife, so many women are exhausted—not just by life, but by decades of being told to manage, fix, discipline, and override our bodies. Wellness culture promised health and control. What it often delivered was shame, disconnection, and the quiet belief that rest, ease, and joy had to be earned.
Today’s conversation asks us to wake up to something different.
Chrissy King is a writer, educator, and body liberation advocate whose work exposes the harm baked into diet and fitness culture and offers a radically more honest path forward. One rooted in consent instead of control. Trust instead of punishment. Listening instead of fixing.
In this Wake Up Call episode, Chrissy opens our eyes to what happens when we stop treating our bodies like projects and start treating them like partners—especially in midlife, when our bodies are changing and asking us to pay attention. We unpack why rest is a biological need (not a reward), and how relearning how to listen can be a form of liberation.
This is a wake up call to the truth we’ve ignored: the body knows. It knows when something isn’t working. It knows when we’re depleted. It knows what it needs next. And when we learn to trust that wisdom—not just individually, but collectively—we don’t just heal our relationship with our bodies, we change the story entirely.
If your body has been tapping you on the shoulder, this episode is your invitation to listen.
Today’s guest, Suleika Jaouad, first captured our collective hearts with her searing memoir Between Two Kingdoms — a book that traced her diagnosis of leukemia, the brutal treatment that followed, and the long, complicated journey of coming home to herself again. It was a Jen Hatmaker Book Club selection back in March 2023, and it has stayed with so many of us.
Suleika is an Emmy Award–winning journalist, bestselling author, speaker, and artist whose work asks some of the biggest questions humans ever face: What does it mean to live when life has been shattered? How do we hold hope and devastation at the same time? What does healing actually look like when recovery isn’t linear, or even guaranteed?
She is also the founder of The Isolation Journals, a global creative community of more than 100,000 writers, artists, and curious souls who use storytelling and imagination as tools for transformation. Her latest book, The Book of Alchemy, feels is a continuation of her journey — filled with essays, prompts, and reflections from over 100 contributors across disciplines. It’s an invitation to explore how we turn pain into meaning, uncertainty into beauty, and our lives into art.
Suleika speaks so generously about what it means to live in the middle — between diagnosis and remission, despair and joy, isolation and connection — and how storytelling helps us metabolize what we’ve lived through. Whether you’re a writer, an artist, someone who’s walking through your own valley, or simply trying to make sense of your story, this episode will speak to you.
