Jennie Garth is best known to Gen-Xers for her iconic role playing Kelly Taylor on the megahit television series Beverly Hills 90210. Fans of the show may remember Kelly’s pivotal “I Choose Me” episode (airing thirty years ago this past May) when she stood between dreamboats Brandon and Dylan and declared that she was choosing herself.
Jennie shaped an entire era of pop culture, and now, at fifty-two, she is embracing an incredible new chapter of life—one filled with bold conversations about aging, empowerment, self-love, and the beautiful messiness of midlife. Through her thought-provoking “I Choose Me” podcast and a forthcoming memoir of the same name, Jennie is using her platform to champion other women over fifty by challenging outdated narratives around aging and sparking empowering conversations.
Today, Jennie, Jen and Amy talk about what choosing yourself looks like on a normal day, and what it means to be graduate beyond our growing family years into a more independent space where a new age of self-discovery is possible because, as Jennie reminds us, choosing “you” isn’t selfish—it’s the most powerful act of self-respect.
Katie Sturino is one of those people who makes you feel instantly braver just by being in the room. With her bold fashion choices, unfiltered honesty, and joyful presence online, the powerhouse founder of Megababe, style influencer, and unapologetic voice for body confidence has inspired so many of us to rethink how we see our bodies and ourselves.
Her first book Body Talk, part memoir, part manifesto, focused on the all too important topic of learning to love the skin you’re in. Now, she’s back—and this time, she’s putting her hand to fiction! Of course, we wanted to talk to this multi-hyphenate about what it’s like flexing yet another new muscle.
Katie and Jen talk about the inspiration behind Sunny Side Up, a book Jennifer Weiner has called a modern-day Bridget Jones’ Diary (without the toxic self-loathing) and Katie shares what the writing process was like, an experience Katie equated to being put through a pasta machine. She and Jen also reminisce about when they first met almost a year ago—backstage at an Oprah special and the grueling decisions they grabbed with (as so many women do for such an event)—what to wear.
KC Davis is a licensed professional counselor, an author, a speaker, and, frankly, one of the most compassionate, funny, down-to-earth voices out there. During the pandemic, she created an amazing platform called Struggle Care where she has been teaching us how to care for ourselves (and our homes) without stigma or shame. Like—if the laundry’s piled up or the dishes aren’t done, it doesn’t mean you’re lazy or broken. It just means you’re living life. It’s a gracious approach to self-care that we wildly embrace.
KC’s first book, How to Keep House While Drowning, was a total game-changer for so many women who’ve felt overwhelmed by the everyday—and now she’s back with a brand new book called Who Deserves Your Love, helping us figure out which relationships we want to invest in, which ones need boundaries, and maybe even which ones we need to step away from.
This conversation goes to some deep places. We talk about:
- What mistreatment looks like in relationships, as opposed to abuse
- The stories that we tell ourselves about another person’s behavior when we get caught up in the vulnerability cycle
- What it means to be morally neutral
- How to use a relationship decision tree to evaluate and make decisions about a relationship
- And the sticky secret to enforcing boundaries
With accessibility, humorous relatability, and vulnerability, KC is here to help us navigate the messy, complicated work of loving people and loving ourselves.
Gretchen Rubin is one of today’s most influential observers of happiness and human nature. In addition to hosting the award-winning podcast Happier with Gretchen Rubin, where she shares practical strategies for building a happier, healthier, more creative life, Gretchen is also the bestselling author of The Happiness Project, The Four Tendencies, Better Than Before, Life in Five Senses, and now Secrets of Adulthood, a delightful collection of her signature aphorisms—concise, thought-provoking truths gathered from her own experiences and reflections on human nature.
Today, Gretchen shares a wealth of bite-sized, digestible truths with Jen and Amy that acknowledge problems everyone faces.
- “What we do every day matters more than what we do once in a while.”
- “Outer order contributes to inner calm.”
- “A strong voice repels as well as attracts.”
- “Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.”
- And our personal favorite, “Choose the bigger life.”
Gretchen also delves into the Four Tendencies and helps Jen and Amy unpack their profiles to better understand whether they are an Upholder, Questioner, Obliger, or Rebel. Anyone want to take bets?
We need art and beauty now more than ever. In this very special episode with acclaimed poet and writer, Maggie Smith, she shares insights with Jen and Amy from her new book ‘Dear Writer: Pep Talks & Practical Advice for the Creative Life‘ and discusses how creativity is a gift that is present in all of us and that every decision we make is a creative act. In fact, Maggie believes that creativity can serve as a form of homecoming, helping individuals to reassemble themselves amidst life’s hardest challenges.
Their conversation also delves into the writing process and reveals the messy and iterative nature of creating art. Maggie talks about the transformative power of writing, the importance of reframing our experiences with new language, and how to maintain a sense of wonder in life, which is essential for personal growth.
Key takeaways include:
- The gift of your attention is a form of love.
- No one else can tell your story; it must be you.
- It’s never too late to start creating. And, the first draft is always a mess; embrace the process.
In the span of a single year, Abby Wambach lost her beloved brother, her wife Glennon Doyle was diagnosed with anorexia, and her sister-in-law Amanda Doyle was diagnosed with breast cancer. For the first time, the trio who host the wildly popular We Can Do Hard Things podcast, all found themselves simultaneously lost, looking for answers. So they turned toward the only thing that’s ever helped them find their way: deep, honest conversations with other brave, kind, wise people. What resulted from those conversations was a myriad of guideposts, words of wisdom from some of the most brilliant wayfinders in the zeitgeist today.
In this episode, Jen and Amy talk with Abby and Amanda about some of the most meaningful bits of guidance that they have received from inspirational voices like Elizabeth Gilbert, Jane Fonda, Michelle Obama, Ocean Vuong, Esther Perel, Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, and others that they have gathered into a new book called, We Can Do Hard Things: Answers to Life’s 20 Questions.
Some of the conversations they delve into include:
- Why are we like this?
- How do we figure out what we really want?
- How do we let go, or forgive, or get unstuck?
- Why do we wake up every day having forgotten everything we know?
- Why self-loyalty is so damn hard for women?
In this special SXSW2025 edition of For the Love, Jen Hatmaker sits down with Dr. Stacey Ludwig Johnson, the Senior VP and Executive Dean at Western Governors University (WGU) School of Education. As a lifelong advocate for educators, Dr. Johnson is at the forefront of reimagining how we train, support, and sustain teachers in today’s challenging educational landscape.
Jen, a former teacher herself, brings her deep passion for education into this conversation, unpacking the real issues educators face today—from teacher shortages to burnout—and discussing how innovative models like WGU’s competency-based education are transforming access to learning.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode
Dr. Johnson’s Path to Leadership: How she transitioned from working in corrections to becoming a pioneer in online education.
Competency-Based Education: What it is, how it differs from traditional models, and why it’s a game-changer for adult learners.
Educator Burnout & Retention: The state of teacher well-being and what’s being done to ensure teachers not only enter the profession but thrive in it.
School & Community Support for Teachers: How schools, administrators, and parents can create environments where teachers feel valued.
Future Trends in Education: How AI, technology, and apprenticeship programs are shaping the next generation of educators.
Everyone is an addict. Mr. Rogers…The Dali Lama… Michelle Obama! Mull that idea over for a minute and when you’re done being outraged like we were, join us for this enthralling conversation with one of our favorite repeat guests on For the Love – author, psychotherapist, and Episcopal priest, Ian Morgan Cron. Today, we’re talking to him about his new book, The Fix: How the Twelve Steps Offer a Surprising Path of Transformation for the Well-Adjusted, the Down-and-Out, and Everyone In Between.
People pleasing, the need to be right, being a compulsive helper, workaholism, being a knowledge junkie, perfectionism, holding on to our past suffering – these are all forms of addiction. The simple truth is, we each resort to our own methods of dealing with the harder aspects of life. For some, that solution means turning to a substance to numb our pain, which is how we traditionally think of addiction. For others, there are behaviors we employ to manipulate what we are feeling. And that’s where the rest of us fall into the sticky trap.
Ian, who also hosts the wildly popular Typology podcast exploring the mystery of the human personality, teaches us how the Twelve Steps are a trusted tool for anyone seeking to move beyond self-help to a more profound sense of awakening.
And, in a new segment called “To My Younger Self”, Jen and Amy share some deeply personal experiences that, for Amy, helped change her relationships and, for Jen, helped change how she viewed herself.
Lisa Congdon may be an internationally known fine artist, illustrator and writer but she didn’t achieve momentum in her career until she was nearly 40 years old. Prior to that time, she felt that her life hadn’t mattered much, that she didn’t have anything interesting to say. But, a total career pivot in her mid-thirties awakened a passion in her that had been lying dormant for decades and helped her find her powerful, beautiful voice. Despite taking an untraditional path, Lisa has achieved recognition, not just as an artist, but as a leader in the industry for her work in social justice, mentoring and teaching. Lisa says making art is what changed her relationship to her story.
Today, Jen and Amy talk to Lisa Congdon about:
- What it looks and feels like to awaken to new possibilities in life
- The power of finding and harnessing your voice, something Lisa covers more in her book, Find Your Artistic Voice: The Essential Guide to Working Your Creative Magic
- How two really big things (joy and activism) can coexist in artistic expression
- Lisa’s game-changing practice of “loud quitting” the things that no longer bring joy or something positive into her life
