Two Friends Compare Notes On Therapy: Jen and Kelly - Jen Hatmaker

Two Friends Compare Notes On Therapy: Jen and Kelly

“In suffering there’s this mistaken idea that you are lonely in your suffering–that you’re alone in that people don’t know. All that reassurance when we say, ‘Got that, yep. I had a thing.’ It makes it undeniable that no one is uniquely afflicted and to remove that from suffering is to lighten it.”

Episode 06

We’re bringing a close to our series on therapy, and we couldn’t be happier to have Kelly Corrigan with us to have a candid conversation with Jen around their thoughts on therapy, including when it first entered their awareness, and now, in a more enlightened age, how the next generation has more access to therapeutic help. Even as recently as 20-30 years ago, therapy was not talked about a lot in public. For Jen and Kelly, they didn’t see it modeled from their parents, it wasn’t mentioned in their church circles, and only earth shattering situations seemed to require it. But as they look back, they realized there were people in their lives who were likely touched by a host of mental health issues–like panic attacks, depression, anxiety–and they usually suffered in silence while others wondered why they were so “moody” or “different.” Now that therapy is enjoying its day in the zeitgeist, we can all benefit from the openness around mental health that is evolving daily. Kelly’s a dear friend of Jen’s and has been on our show numerous times–winning the coveted title of most appearances on our pod! Besides offering wonderful conversation and amazing insight here, Kelly is the host of her own podcast, Kelly Corrigan Wonders, and is the author of several amazing books including Tell Me More, Glitter and Glue, and The Middle Place. She also hosts a show called “Tell Me More” for NPR, and she and Jen discuss the value of the statement “tell me more” when relating to others about our deepest thoughts and feelings.


Episode Transcript

Hi everybody. Jen Hatmaker here, your host of the For the Love Podcast. Welcome to the show. Listeners today, you’re so lucky. We’re in a series called For the Love of Therapy and it has been really wonderful. First of all, if you’ve missed one, go back and catch ’em addendum to that. Just if you haven’t already subscribed to this show, just do it. It’ll take you about six seconds wherever you listen to a podcast and you’ll just never miss an episode. They’ll just stay nice and saved for you. I would definitely want you to go back and listen to any episodes you’ve missed. In this particular series, we’ve had incredible conversations with therapists. We’ve given ourselves a chance to have virtual visits with some of the top leaders in this area, and we’ve also had folks who have experienced the transformation that happens through the healing journey of therapy, and they are all very honest and very true.

I have found it personally rewarding, instructive, and connective and I’ve learned so much personally from this particular series Our last guest is the perfect person to wrap this up because she is so wise. She is one of my friends with the most amount of wisdom and thoughtfulness. She’s so curious and is a student of people. She’s not a therapist, but she acts like one, and tons of us, count me in, find conversation with her to be therapeutic because she is such a profound listener. She has a real skill for getting to the heart of not just an issue, but who we are, which she and I are going to talk about here in a minute. It’s a rare quality. I’ve learned so much from her about this and about what it means to really grow deep and what it really means to get at it with each other and with our own selves and our own stories, and she’s certainly no stranger to this show.

She’s been on a number of times, which I’m going to tell her right at the top of the show, and I’ve been on her show several times. We are true friends and I’ve never walked away from any conversation with her, be it in a formal setting or a career setting or just across the dinner table, I haven’t left feeling so interested or provoked in thought. She piques my curiosity because she is like that. Of course, I’m talking about Kelly Corrigan–the best Kelly–and she’s got so much insight right now into this conversation, into culture, and to changemakers into what it means to move past the small talk and get to the connection. She’s so good at this. She’s the host of a PBS show called Tell Me More, where she sits across from some of the most interesting and well-known people, but she comes away with insight that no other interviews get close to. This is the gift of her.

She also hosts her own podcast. Kelly Corrigan Wonders. She and I actually did a podcast episode swap not too long ago where we recorded four episodes and we put them on her show and we put them on my show and we had really deep conversations around men. The Men We Love is actually what we called it. We talked about change, adult friendship, and hard stuff. Suffering and recovery essentially. I’m just telling you, it was every bit as therapeutic as sitting in the counselor’s chair. So if you don’t know Kelly, she’s written a lot of great books. Tell Me More, Glitter and Glue, my personal favorite of all time, The Middle Place. She’s beloved for a reason. She’s bitingly funny and witty. She’s her own person and she is just unique in the world. There are a million reasons why I love her and I’m so grateful she’s in my life. I treasure her. You certainly will too after this conversation if you’re new to her. So I’m just delighted again to bring to the show The irreplaceable Kelly Corrigan.




Tell Me More Stories About the 12 Hardest Things I’m Learning to Say
by Kelly Corrigan

Glitter and Glue: A Memoir
by Kelly Corrigan

The Middle Place
by Kelly Corrigan

For the Love of Conversations

Tell Me More with Kelly Corrigan

Kelly Corrigan Wonders

American Utopia 

CONNECT WITH Kelly Corrigan
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